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FAST FRED (209.26.110.231)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 4:45 am: | |
For the wanabee the bigest problem is that there are soooo many choices to make and its hard to get a handle on them all.
The following is a conversation from the bus nuts board of a while ago.
The discussion is basically on STYLE ,
he newbees in particular need some handle on reali$tic costs for a conversion.
First problem is ego ,, can you live with yourself ,if you have something not new in your RV?
Second is self image , can you be happy with function, instead of fashion,or is Glitz your life?
Third is your ego, can you live with something that is out of the commercial mainstream?
I know this sounds like Hillary PSYCO BABBLE,
but there is NO sense in doing a conversion that you are not going to be happy USING.
I am fortunate in Immensely enjoying driving my bus,I find it a great kick to cruse effortlessly at 74 MPH {indicated},knowing I'm not harming the machinery .
We go camping for a few weeks at a time ,occasionally going for a couple
of months ,,but don't consider us as Liveabords,,or Full timers.
My method is to create a living environment comparable to any RV ,, no 8 1/2 month boon docking in AK all winter, or dry camping in TX desert all summer.
I have kept real good track on the costs in my coach ,and to date have under $10,000 in the conversion parts and pieces .
With this{ normal RV conditions} as the goal , the choices become easy .
AS much used equipment as you can stand,given the hassle of repairs.
I have a $100 propane genset that will take some love,, and maybe a rebuild to get right, but as we seldom boondock its not a priority.
The 42.000 BTU suburban furnace is NEW as fixing a cheap piece of junk takes more time than the $400. it cost new.
Range ,,used apartment 4 burner with broiler and oven was free,, but it does need the grates stored in a draw not to rattle.
I can live with that.
Air cond $550 new takeout ,basement dual compressor unit.
Battery charger new Todd w/ adjustable voltage output,, necessary if fast charging off gen set.
Water pump $135 Sureflow deck wash down pump,, big motor ,high volume certainly overkill,
But as someone that lived on board a sailboat for 22 years,year round,the F/W is the biggest pain when it fails.
Hot water heater 10 Gallon Marine ,,coolant +120v {to be hooked into a water cooled gen set or drive engine someday}.
Advantage , doesnt melt element if plugged in w/o water inside.
The interior is simple painted plywood ,, with draw fronts {the expensive part} rescued from my neighbors dumpster,when his wife decided white plastic looked "better" than varnished Beach Wood.
Two propane tanks came from scrap yard ,,Motor home tanks are built to a better standard and does not need constant pressure checking.
Counter tops also used from some yucky yuppy that ,,HAD to have granite..
The stone place was delighted to give them away.
All these choices are individual,,so I can not presume MY type of coach ,a DRIVER will be anyone else's cup of tea, but IF you can find a nice coach or skoolie ,with $10.000 you can have a great RV motor home.
This was an opinion of another BUS NUT
> >Well here I go again.......I have to differ from you on this one
> Fred. I guess that,s what makes this board fun and a learning source for us
> all.
>
> What real value is a bus that has been built in the most part
> from used
> throw aways ,there is a lot of hard labor that goes into a
> conversion and in
> my view vanity and quality are not even comparable. I know that
> there is
> something to be said for using an occasional used part but if it all
> comes
> down to being able to afford a bus conversion I feel that there has
> to be
> ample budget set aside or perhaps this is not the right time to
> attempt this
> type of venture. As with most major purchases a bus conversion is an
> investment and in order to be a wise one I feel it should be able to
> be sold
> at a small profit upon completion (not counting your labor) . Over
> the past
> few years I have seen many busses go up for resale partly completed
> as the
> owner did not cost calculate the whole project or took such a long
> time due
> to limited time and /or funds.
> My advice to a new converter is to plan and short term budget a
> conversion, the less money that you can afford to risk is all the
> more
> reason to build a quality unit that will be able to be sold in the
> event
> that you ever wish to get back some of your money.
> I know that there are lots of converters out there that are
> satisified
> with Fred's version of a conversion .......but there has been many
> a
> financial consequence paid with that theory . I personally feel that
> the
> greatest advantage of doing your own conversion is the fact that you
> are not
> limited to a factory floor plan and if you shop wisly and are able
> to do
> most of the labour yourself you can have a very nice coach that you
> can be
> proud of in any park ....no excuses or wishing , just a good
> conversion
> that is of value .
> I apoligize if this view seems harsh but ask yourself ..do you
> really want
> to invest $ 30,000 and endless hours of labour into something that
> is only
> worth $ 15,000
>
>
> >ITS OK to have a different opinion thats what this format is for.
""As with most major purchases a bus conversion is an
> investment and in order to be a wise one I feel it should be able to
> be sold at a small profit upon completion (not counting your labor) .""
This is a DREAM !!
I have NEVER heard of ANYONE getting there cash out of a hobby coach ,,
that $5500 heating sustem you bought NEW is only a used gamble for the next guy, and worth ????
Every add in most magasines are proof that almost NO ONE will ever see even half of the monitary investment in the coach,
Your design is ,YOUR design ,,and most folks who convert want it THERE WAY ,,
and unless you have 4-500 coaches under your belt like Custom Coach ,,
most converters take years to get there coach sold ,,even at a loss., check the adds.
Everyone I have talked too said "on the next coach they would do somthing a bit differently"
Who wants to give full cash for somones home made learning experience??
What one can afford is VASTLY different from what somone wants to tie up in their hobby.
To me having all the delux toys of life at low cost is PART of the hobby,
The amount of time in a full bus conversion at minimum is about 1000 hours of work,, mucho more trolling catalogues ,and making drawings.NONE of this time will be recouped even at $1.00 an hour!
I never said to use JUNK in the conversion, but pre owned is what ,everything, is the INSTANT you own it.....
A running gen $100 set that might need an overhaul is ,to me far better than a $7000 diesel that will only add $500 to the resale ,,
as its used and the maint is unknown to the prospective purchaser,so its another expensive gamble.
Can you tell a sinks history by looking at it? A table, chairs , couches ,inverter ,charger?
" I apoligize if this view seems harsh but ask yourself ..do you really want
to invest $ 30,000 and endless hours of labour into something that is only worth $ 15,000??"
NO but its fun to spend $10,000 on a conversion that has all the utility and function of the $30,000 job and get most of your bucks back in a decade or two when it gets sold.
You use your costs out ,not save them for the "buyer"
The easy rule of thumb is that the coach should not be worth more than 3X the shell value,, on an old GM ten grand or fifteen is all that should be" invested."
Notice I did not include the cost of the coach in the list,
as diffrernt folks have different views on that too.
My ideal is a coach just coming out of comercial service with current logs.
Its safe and if you find a good one , with real good maint ,,hopefully all there will be is routene maint.
A rebuilt engine is about $4000 plus instalation, but hopefully you can find a coach that had the engine rebuilt recently enough that RV life will not wear it out.
No one wants to be broke down on the side of the road ,, but that what the preventive maint is for.
Maintaing things is cheap and simple ,,even tho the stuff is HEAVY!!
The book is got ALL the maint. answers and I believe if the coach is serviced by the book, reliability should be better than on charter coaches,, we can wait for the right parts ,sitting at home,
the charter coach goes on skedule , ready or not.
FAST FRED |
Steve Fessenden (63.27.89.22)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 12:14 am: | |
I agree with Fred on this, based on one year of shopping, two GMC shells and now a Prevost professional conversion.
I know what I was looking for and what I would pay for. I was looking also for a hobby converted coach, but only at a BARGAIN.
My Prevost will bring me money back because it is what most people are looking for. Most people who are not on these boards do not even know that an MCI, Eagle and GMC are good coaches. Conversions that don't have a professional converters name behind them go out the back door of RV sales lots at $10,000 to $20,000 for various GMCs, more for Eagles and MCIs, but, I believe, never what is in them.
That doesn't mean you can't have a knock out of a coach. The people parked near me at Bus'n 2001 last week had an Eagle that was in good shape mechanically and body wise. All the windows were still in, but covered from the inside with white walls with lighting behind the top. It was beautiful inside. Just Beautiful. And they said they did the initial conversion at Home Depot in 3 weeks while living in it.
Steve Fessenden |
Mallie (208.165.104.15)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 12, 2001 - 12:16 pm: | |
Fast Fred has raised some good points, which all will never agree on, But then, you never learn from someone who agrees with you. Fred’s approach only considers functionality against cost, while the other method also considers value added/resale. I agree with Fred, you should balance what you want against what you want to spend, and reach a reasonable compromise as to what you can live with. Once you decide what you want to end up with, you can use the cheapest methods to achieve it. I think through planning is crucial to a good, “ most value for the money” end product, no matter what price range you are in. Every Conversion will be sold at some point, and for me, resale is an important consideration in building it. After all, in a few years we may decide cruise the Gulf in a sail boat, and need the money out of the conversion to make it possible.
A conversion is very similar to building a house. If you use CONVENTIONAL DESIGN, GOOD MATERIAL, and QUALITY WORKMANSHIP, it will have value. To say you will never get your labor out of it is very discouraging to me. It sounds like you are just throwing away all your efforts, and I just don’t believe it. I built a new house 18 years ago, hiring only trades for work I was not capable of doing well. A friend bought an old house in the same area, and added-on using poor design, and workmanship, though using good material. Some of my money was spent in super insulating, creating a much more comfortable house I think. He ended up with a little more in his than I did, using his labor. Today the difference in value is at least 2 to 1. Motor homes will not likely appreciate as a house does, but the parallels in value are valid. If you do quality work, it has value. Now, the value is the same whether it took you 2 hours or two week to do it, as may be the case with first time projects. So it might take you a little less time if you ever build a second or third unit, but if the quality is there, the value remains the same, just the dollars per hour are different. There are lots of quality, well planned units built by individuals, in the back yards, many of which have far better craftsmanship than the “factory’ Custom Coach models. These units will have value for labor. I have heard “you will never get your money out of it”, but that just does not have to be. Of course you will have to deduct usage/depreciation. If you will realistically appraise your unit after you finish, and apply rule of thumb depreciation of 20% first year, and 10% each year thereafter, you will have a pretty good idea what you unit will be worth in a few year. Like anything else, it must be maintained, and market trends will affect price too. Mallie Lennon |
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