| Author | Message | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 56 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.52.103.119  Rating: N/A |
You guys are gonna think my bus is a total piece of garBAAAAAge. But she's not... just a bit long in the tooth and tired to death of sitting... and sitting... and sitting. And now that little leak I earlier mentioned (somewhere) has evolved into something akin to a commercial grade leaf blower. At the moment, there's snow up to my bum so I couldn't get under and have a look-see. I suspect an air bag but it could be most anything, I suppose. But here's the deal: The left rear won't air up. It did fine the other day (even with this little whistle of air escaping) but she dropped pretty quick after shutdown. She still raises a bit, but not as high as the right rear (maybe 3-4 inches lower). To better orient you, she's an MCI-5C (no tag axle). What I want to do - if I can get enough under-carriage clearance - is to drive her up on these big timber ramps. This mightn't be possible because I may not be able to get the ramp under the left side. But if I can, is it safe to drive her up on the ramps? (I don't mean safe for me, I mean safe for my bus?). If I can't, can I safely drive her a short distance? (I have access to a super heavy duty lift about 15 minutes away). To save you asking some obvious and well-intentioned questions: She holds plenty of air pressure (110-120) and the compressor doesn't seem to have trouble keeping up with the air leak. And she still purges at around 120psi, so I don't think the actual leak is an immediate danger. I mean, I shouldn't lose my brakes or anything. But can I break something important (and costly) by moving her just enough for inspection and repair? Shoot. Seems every time I wash my hands, stash my tools and think I'm ready to hit the road, something else goes wrong. I just hope this isn't a biggie. Thanks for any advice. Nellie Wilson (who's beginning to feel more like Rosie the Welder) | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 644 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, I think it was Rosie the Riveter, but anyhow. Our buses have 3 leveling valves, one on each side in the rear, and one in the middle of the front. The rears set the side to side level of the bus, and the front just keeps the middle of the front axle at the right height, the front axle "pivots" because both sides are connected together, which keeps weight on the ground on all four corners on uneven roads. As you say that the comp has no trouble keeping air up, I would look for the arm off of the leveling valve on the left rear, or a broken hose, before I suspected an air bag. Bus is definitely driveable a short distance. Because you mentioned front air bag problems and blocks before, nobody told you NOT TO GO UNDER AN (aired up) AIR RIDE BUS, OR BETWEEN THE TIRES AND THE WHEEL WELLS, without blocking it securely at the jacking points! We want you alive. I do mean safe for you, you can buy another bus, we can't replace you! You will find the leveling valves mounted on the body, with two air hoses, and a piece of linkage that should go from the arm to the axle. HTH, George | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 57 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.52.101.14 Rating: N/A |
George - You're absolutely right... 'Rosie the Riveter.' And here I just finished watching that Ken Burns series, "The War." [Trying to catch up on my American history.] Seven or eight DVDs and what a great series it is! Oppps. off topic. Again. Your explanation has given me hope. And I hope it's NOT the air bag. But at least I won't have to have it TOWED to find out. Thanks a million, George, and thanks for your concern. I'll be careful. Nellie Wilson | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1250 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: |
If the bumper stops are intact, you should be able to take it to your lift. They were designed to be driveable with a collapsed bag.Just take it easy and avoid bumps or potholes so you don't damage anything, since only the rubber stop is providing cushioning. If the coach is already converted, watch for generator exhaust clearance. Also watch for humps on road as the clearance is going to be less. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 645 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, You don't owe us an apology for the condition of your bus. The vast majority of us (definitely me,) have bought much older buses in much worse condition. Don't give up, you'll only have to do each repair once! Heed John R's advice immediately above! Better luck, George | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 399 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 217.35.103.132  Rating: N/A |
Nellie, sorry to hear of all of your problems you are having, but that's part of owning these large hunks of steel and rivets. Just be careful as you progress with your beauty, we don't want to hear about any smashed fingers or worse! OK! Your avitar suggests that you should be named "Southern Belle of the North". Paul | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 78 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 174.145.227.60 Rating: |
On my 5A the leveling arms have been disconnected because the PO put in individual controls for all four corners. If it is the air bags they are not all that hard to replace.....i did mine while healing up from a dislocated shoulder. Heaviest part will be taking off and putting back on the wheels. Hardest part will be getting the nuts off of the bolts holding the airbags on, but if you hit them with some PB Blaster a couple of times, a day or two before you wrench on them, it is a lot easier to do. If it is the airbags replace both on that side so you won't have to do it again a few months down the road. Also get all NEW rings and bolts. Don't try to reuse the old ones....for the little bit of money you save it is not worth it. The heads on the bolts are shaped to fit the ring.....hardware store bolts will stick up above the ring and will eventually cause cracks in your airbags. You also have to be very careful to make sure the new bolts are in right, if they stick up a little bit and are not flush with the ring they need to be turned 180 degrees to fit right......they fit into slots so they can only be one way or the other, you just need to pay a little bit of attention and it is no big deal. If your airbeam is the source of the leak you will probably need to plate it. If you look in the archives of this or the other board i think there are pictures of and sources of the plates. If you have to plate it you might want to go ahead and do the airbags at the same time if they have cracks forming. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 58 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 74.13.197.190 Rating: N/A |
Actually, John R, I fear those bumper stops may be history? The right one for sure is missing. Noticed that when I changed the airbag on that side. Thought about replacing it with layers of old tire rubber (drilling / punching a bolt hole - protected by big washers - and bolting into the original mount). Then I thought aarrrrgh, I've got more pressing matters to attend to... now I see I was wrong. Gee, how very unusual. But maybe the left bumper stop still remains? And maybe it's not critical, at least for the moment? Because the left side still raises - at least it did yesterday - just not as much as it should. Whadaya think? Nellie Wilson | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 59 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 74.13.197.190 Rating: N/A |
Paul, what a nice compliment. "Southern Belle of the North"... I like it, kinda catchy. But I'm forced to display more of my ignorance: What's an "avitar?" I've seen the word before on this forum and been meaning to ask. Couldn't find it in the dictionary (neither French nor English). Found 'avatar' but that says: "Incarnation of a god, in Hindu mythology." But that doesn't fit... heck, I'm not even Hindu. And Ed, thanks for the advice. Looks like it comes from one who's been there, done that, and got the T-shirt. Well, since it's a balmy -6 outside, guess I'll don my bikini and head up the mountain to the bus... and t-t-t-try to get some answers before I-l-l-lose the Northern Lights. Nellie Wilson | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 400 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 217.35.103.132 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, I might have mispelled it, try avitar, dang, where's the spell check when you need it! It's your profile picture, and a good one too. I'm in Northern Ireland for a copule of weeks working and it's supposed to get to -5, and that's not F it's C. A bikini in this kind of temps? I guess that's why they call us bus nuts huh? Stay warm, Paul | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 646 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Is that Centigrade or Fahrenheit? Sorry, knowing that you live above the line, I think I know the answer, I just couldn't resist. George | ||
| Arnie Smith (Arniemc5a)
Registered Member Username: Arniemc5a Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 24.71.46.230  Rating: N/A |
If the block in that corner is missing completely, the air bag may "compress" a little more than it should, and when air is reapplied it will be the last one to pressurize, and when it does, it sometimes does it with a popping sound.... scared the heck out of me the first time.. This was happening to me when my left front axle allowed the coach to settle too far down because the bumper pad was missing. Likely the only thing left there is the steel plate the bumper pad was bolted to, which also holds the assembly onto the support. That can be replaced by knocking off whats left of the plate with a hammer and a cold chisel.. You may have to take off the tires and rim to get at it.. THe bolt will be rusted so it likely easier to grind off what's left. You can likely get one made up using a heavy 4" washer, and, find or cut a bumper block similar to those on the back of highway truck trailer to size. Then use a couple of spots of weld to secure your new assembly to the frame. This is what I did with my coach... It sits the way it shud now when the air leaves the bags. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 367 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.230.210  Rating: N/A |
Paul: Where did you get the picture of the Dixie Echoes at? I know that it was off an album wasn't it back in the 70's. I collect all kinds of gospel lp albums and would like to add more to my collection. so if anybody has some they want to get rid of, let me know. GOMER | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 60 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.49.114.247 Rating: N/A |
Arnie - you're right on the money there... I mean, about that left rear corner 'being the lasr to air up.' Always has been though, and I figured it was just a function of the plumbing. The front airs up much sooner, but so does the right rear (which is DEFINITELY missing the bumper stop). So you think I could replace with dime-a-dozen OTR truck bumper stops? That would sure be nice. A slight aside: Has anyone retro-fitted their air bags? I've seen this advertised and, as I understand it, the air frame is 'condemned" (I'm pretty much of that mind myself righr now). The bellows are plated (at each end) so the air support (suspension) is confined to just the bag. Any pros or cons out there? Thanks, Nellie Wilson | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 401 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 217.35.103.132 Rating: N/A |
Hey Gomer, Randy Shelnut of The Dixie Echoes sent that pic to me along with a couple more when he found out that I owned the Eagle that they used to own. Really nice of him. Sorry for the hijack Nellie! Paul | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 889 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.54.29.215 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, If your airbags are plated, changing to rolling lobe air bags will greatly improve the ride. They are available from Mohawk Industries. We purchased our severalyears ago, so I do not know how much they cost today. Jack | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 79 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 173.117.247.122 Rating: N/A |
Do you happen to know if that is by chance a Datsun Fairlady or 1600 that they are posing on? | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 80 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 173.117.247.122 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, it was 77 degrees here in Yuma yesterday......a lot nicer temp for working on a bus. :>) | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 61 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.52.106.14 Rating: N/A |
Gee, thanks for that Ed. Really know how to spark up a girl's day!  Seriously, though, that was my original plan... take it south and work on it down there. But now I gotta get it off the axle. But like someone said (McCartney?), Life's what happens when you're making plans to do something else. Thanks, Jack... I'll check into those rolling lobe air bags. Can't afford now, but sounds like a nice upgrade down the road. And, Paul, I never mind a little good natured hijacking... for a price, of course. Nellie Wilson | ||
| Tom Yaegle (Tom_5c)
Registered Member Username: Tom_5c Post Number: 24 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 96.247.135.57 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, I replaced all 4 of my stops and all my bags. Not a bad job but you may have to drill out the bolt for the stop. 1/2 bolt I think made as part of the stop, so the unscrew if the metal part is still there. I used 3X3X1/4 squre tube between my stops for support while working on it. I got the stops and bags at Mohawk. Tom Y | ||
| Keith Wood (Ft6)
Registered Member Username: Ft6 Post Number: 62 Registered: 8-2008 Posted From: 70.212.148.86 Rating: N/A |
"So you think I could replace with dime-a-dozen OTR truck bumper stops?" The axle stops on most vehicles are only there to prevent metal-on-metal impact in case of heavy loads or big bumps. On a vehicle with air suspension, they are also there as a rest for the vehicle when it's not aired up, so that the bags don't get crushed or take a set if left depressurized for a long time. The truck ones should be just fine. If you have an option between rubber and "elastomeric compound" stops (you know, the ones that look like plastic), the only real issue is price -- you're not likely to ever have to replace them again, so why spend the extra money? OTOH, you ALWAYS want to use elastomeric bushings when you can get them, because they won't break down like rubber does. | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 402 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 217.35.103.132 Rating: N/A |
Hi Ed, I was told it is an Austin Healey Sprite, don't know the year. It's not a Bug Eyed Sprite, because I used to own one. Another Hijack Nellie! ;-) How Much? Paul | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 62 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 76.68.200.204 Rating: N/A |
Hi, Tom and Jack - both of you mentioned Mohawk Industries.... I Googled it but pulled up only the big carpet/rug manufacturer. Would you happen to have their website? And Tom, about that "3X3X1/4 square tube between my stops for support..."? I'm having trouble visualizing that. I tried to draw it a few different ways but just came out with these demented looking doodles. Any way to better describe it? And how exactly did you use it? And Keith, really appreciate the info. - I'll definitely take your advice on that. Thanks to all, Nellie Wilson | ||
| Tom Yaegle (Tom_5c)
Registered Member Username: Tom_5c Post Number: 25 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 96.247.135.57 Rating: N/A |
Nellie,3inch square tubing. 1/4 thick and I cut them 3 inches long. I set it between the stops so it could not come down. I'll get the 800 # for Mohawk for you. Tom Y | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1462 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160  Rating: N/A |
Nellie - Here's a list of distributors for Goodyear Air Springs: http://www.goodyearep.com/WorkArea/showcontent.aspx?id=15676 Do you have a parts book for your 5C? If so, calling with the part number really helps speed things along. Also, if they're out of Goodyear, with the part number they can cross-reference to Firestone. FWIW & HTH. . . PS: Did you get the pm I sent you about the photo trade secrets? | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 74.13.199.209 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Tom and RJ - That info helps a lot! BTB, RJ... sure did reply and sent a couple of those 'attachments' you asked about. But the email addy on your BNO profile bounced back. So I sent you another at your other address... the one I got from your BNO BBS post way back in 2001. (I won't write that addy here, just in case it's private). Can you check back with me on this? Thanks Again, Nellie Wilson | ||
| Tom Yaegle (Tom_5c)
Registered Member Username: Tom_5c Post Number: 26 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 96.247.135.57 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, Mohawk 800-323-7652 Mohawkmfg.com What year is your 5C? Tom Y | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1253 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: N/A |
The last time I was down at Luke's, I picked up a couple of the stops. He had them in stock. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.49.115.60 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Tom & John & RJ... and all you guys, actually. Got a great big heavy duty lift scheduled for early, early Sunday AM. Now just gotta pray my rolling stainless steel flash freezer growls and snorts and, hopefully, ROARS into life. (It's about -12 here, but no wind) If anything noteworthy happens I'll file a full report... roars into lifeswami steel | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1466 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160 Rating: N/A |
Does your engine have a block heater? Plugging it in for a couple of hours before the lift shows up should help the Detroit roar to life. Have also heard of a busnut who slid one of those small (14 - 18") covered bbqs with burning briquets under his bus to heat the engine compartment, after the flame from lighting had subsided, of course. FWIW & HTH. . . PS: I did get your pm, after doing a little mailbox clean-out. Thanks! | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1427 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.134.176  Rating: N/A |
BBQ under the engine, and a cardboard skirt around three sides, from drive wheel to drive wheel. Concentrate your BTU's, and you can get away with fewer of them! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 400 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.209.191.165 Rating: N/A |
At that temperature one might consider a "coke"can or two of Gasoline in the tank...or diesel anti-gel. But do it well in advance of startup (day or so) for possible easier starting. If the coach is going to live in that climate, might also consider an ether injection kit. And best wishes. FWIW RCB | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1261 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: N/A |
Put in a block heater if it doesn't have one. No use wearing out/ burning up a starter/ batteries. You can use straight Kerosene ( #1 ) to cut the diesel fuel. Several gallons would do it depending on how much is in tank. They also sell anti gel at truck stops Or wait till temp moderates to above freezing. Other things don't want to work right when it is that cold. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1429 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.121.208 Rating: N/A |
Only those attempting functionality in arctic conditions need worry about dosing the diesel. Nobody round these parts is looking at -30 and below. Coach tanks are much less likely to suffer the troubles of the truckers as early, as our tanks are not hanging outside. Condensation from partially filled tanks, however... Requires fuel antifreeze. Another topic whereby the defense is 365 days a year. Keep the fuel tank full when parked or stored, to minimize the amount of condensation inside the tank from humidity, if you are going to be operating in winter. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 401 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.211.52.185 Rating: N/A |
"Only those attempting functionality in arctic conditions need worry about dosing the diesel." Could be, but when it gets below 40F I start cranking and hit the ether button for a very brief second...starts right up. At much colder temps, down to 25F below in my experience, it is mandatory....and might take a long second of blast. Saves on batteries and starter.....and depending on make of coach, the tanks may...or may not be hanging outside. In my case the tank is "exposed".. UNDER the coach. John...guess it depends on one's experience about "other things" not working right. Kinda like not being able to put a square peg in a round hole....depends on the size of the hole..... Do it your way, right? FWIW RCB | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 898 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.54.29.215 Rating: N/A |
"John...guess it depends on one's experience about "other things" not working right. Kinda like not being able to put a square peg in a round hole....depends on the size of the hole....." OR how big of a hammer you use!! Jack | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 316 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
BW must be wimpish! Today its cold, minus 26 on the C scale and close to minus 40 in the wind. Finished installation of weatherstripping on the large overhead door on the bus barn yesterday. Very comfy to putter around in the busbarn. Joe. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 664 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
A question: Why do neither diesel nor gasoline vehicle fuel tanks ever explode from static sparks while fueling, etc? An answer: A diesel tank doesn't have an explosive vapor mixture on top of it because diesel evaporates so slowly that the vapor on top stays too lean to ignite. The vapor on top of a gasoline tank is too rich to ignite. Maybe I don't have to ask what might happen when you mix gas AND diesel? The safe solution? Add kerosene or anti-gel! G | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 402 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.209.109.237 Rating: N/A |
George....as I said...a "coke" can or two. In a 100 gallon tank that is very little. Like a can or two of heet in gasoline. Enuf to do the job...not enuf to do damage. Same with spraying ether...just a "bump", not a "hold down"...gets the job well done and no damage. And one more surprise to me...rather than using "belt dressing" on belts.....a quick squirt of.....walla.......WD-40. And BTW...that works VERY well. Tried it. FWIW, this gas thing is not my recipe. This was passed on to me by a long time (old) diesel mechanic who, to best of my also long time knowledge, never lost a vehicle thru abuse or mismanagement of talent or craftsmanship..... I posted the information several years ago on this forum...see archives. Just passin' it on. Do with it as one will. RCB | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 318 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 68.84.6.177  Rating: N/A |
George M. Todd wrote "The safe solution? Add kerosene or anti-gel!" Also, octane and cetane are in opposition. If you add gasoline to diesel fuel, you are raising the octane rating and lowering cetane. What does lowered cetane do for you -- it reduces speed of combustion, giving lower power and smoke (unburned fuel out the exhaust or at least it burns "too late to push the piston") and makes starting harder. Most anti-gel also has a cetane improver. For frigid starts, gasoline probably makes the fuel flow better* but it impairs the fuel's starting characteristics. (* Of course, fuel that's properly antigelled flows OK, anyway.) | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 403 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.209.109.237 Rating: N/A |
I agree..... ...FWIW RCB | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 89 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.49.114.250 Rating: N/A |
I Know this thread is getting long, and maybe too stale. And maybe off topis too? But lemme throw a question out anyway: I've been reading on this 'Bus Conversion 101' site that I need 'rollong lobe' air bags when I plate "...otherwise your bus will ride like a dump truck." But Luke says otherwise, and (I believe) Ralph said he just used his existing double-convoluted bags. Anybody got a handle on this? Could use some opinions here, as I'm trying to get this done next week (fat chance with Christmas and all, but I'm still gonna try). Here's the link to that site: http://busconversion101.com/air_suspension.htm Thanks, Nellie Wilson | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 673 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Don't want to be accused of abusing a corpse, but. My comment on not mixing gasoline with diesel came from a question posed by my neighbor who had a diesel Peugeot, that didn't want to start in cold weather. Someone told him to add a GALLON of gas to what turned out to be a 12 gallon tank! Fortunately he asked me before he did it, as the loss of lubricity from that much dilution would have siezed his pump before there would have been enough space in his tank for vapor. An ohmmeter on the glow plugs revealed two open, which cleared up the starting problem. G | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1267 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: |
I have heard that bypassing the volume of the beams results in a worse ride. How much? Don't know.Makes sense though, as there is more volume of air to compress/decompress. My 04 was plated years ago and rides ok, but don't have a regular one to compare with. Seems like most of the newer coaches went to the rolling lobe design. They are much easier to service and is probably main reason for change. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 675 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
I'm right with John, and am looking at having to plate mine. A thought would be a reservoir roughly equivalent to the volume lost in the beams, plumbed in between the leveling valve and the bags. A larger res would improve the ride more, the only disadvantage would be a minute or so time delay on the initial rise, and a little delay after loading or unloading 30 or 40 passengers. G | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 101 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.52.100.238 Rating: N/A |
Okay, guys, that satisfies me. If John's coach rides okay with the old double-convoluted, guess mine should too. That reservoir idea sounds pretty good, but wouldn't it be easier to just replace the old bags with rolling lobes... not all at once, but as they give out? Or can you mix-and-match 'em like that? I notice that website I mentioned (above) recommends (very strongly) rolling lobes with plating, but many of their 'example' photos show the old DC bags being used. But then again, they SELL those rolling lobes, don't they? John, you say "They (rolling lobes) are much easier to service and is probably main reason for change." In what way? I mean, what's to service on an air bag other than replacing them? I've never done a thing on mine... but sounds like maybe I should be? Thank for all the good info. Nellie Wilson | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 906 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.54.29.215 Rating: N/A |
I did some work on a MCI that someone had added a couple air tanks in the rear bay when they plated the rear air bags. The problem was that they connected the tanks to the rear air bags using 3/8" nylon DOT tubing. The opening between the top of the OEM air bag and the air beam is at least 1 1/2" in diameter. I don't think the 3/8" tubing will allow enough volume of air to transfer fast enough. As far as difference in ride, when we purchased our MC-8, the rear air bags were plated and the front were still using the air beams. When we replaced the rear bags with rolling lobe, we saw a very noticeable difference in ride. When we changed the front air bags(which were still using the air beams) to rolling lobe we noticed very little difference. Jack | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 82 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 174.145.45.85 Rating: N/A |
So Jack, when you put on the rolling lobe bags on the back was the difference you saw in the ride for the better or was it worse? | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1268 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: N/A |
On the rolling lobe units, you only have two big bolts on the bottom and one or two on top. You replace the whole assembly; plates and bag unit. You don't have to deal with those odd ball made bolts and trying to work around the tight spaces to get them all tightened. Bolts aren't cheap either if you are doing two bags or more at a time. Sure, you can reuse the old bolts if they don't get rusted bad or round out in those holes. It doesn't take near as long to replace the newer ones.The otherway to look at it might be that your bags probably will only need to be replaced twice at most, normally once. I wonder how that supply of those bolts is going to be in another 10 years? BTW, the plate units require longer versions of those bolts. Even non plate can benefit from using three or four of the longer ones just to get ring seated on air bag enough to start the nuts. Don't just go to rolling lobes on one side at the time. You can get funny handling from something like this. Liberal use of anti-seize on those threads is a no brainer. | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 908 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.54.29.215 Rating: N/A |
"So Jack, when you put on the rolling lobe bags on the back was the difference you saw in the ride for the better or was it worse?" Much better! The road I went on for a test drive had several potholes that I always tried to avoid. After hitting 1 small pothole, I found myself aiming for the bigger ones, to see how it handled them because the ride was so much better. Jack |
