| Author | Message | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 64 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 74.13.199.209  Rating: N/A |
A 'just in case I ever actually get om the road' question': A friend of mine just offered me his tow bar. I searched for a Dolly but never found one I could afford. This tow bar - my friend's - has been used just once, so I'm awfully tempted. But it just tows the vehicle, i.e.; all four wheels remain on the ground. Which is fine with me, but can this be done without damaging the car's drive train? The car, a '97 Lincoln Contintal, is a front wheel drive automatic. Just a Ford with a fancy name, except it has an airbag suspension (I am sooo weary of air bags... whatever happend to good old springs?) Anyway, could I make this do? What procedure would you guys follow? (You'll probably tell me to trade the car, right?) Thanks, Nellie Wilson | ||
| Moe Hollow (Moehollow)
Registered Member Username: Moehollow Post Number: 85 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.102.20.26 Rating: N/A |
You will have to do some mods to tow it four down. Call Remco, a company the specializes in that stuff, and see what they say. It will not be cheap. Just another thought. Tow dollies have there limitations too. They can be a nuisance. It might be a whole lot easier to buy a different car for towing-- one that needs no modification. You could get something reasonably inexpensive that is lighter, and will not have you concerned about road gravel damage. (Message edited by moehollow on December 07, 2008) | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 701 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.146.79.19  Rating: N/A |
No. Yes? Remco makes both, a transmission fluid pump, and axle disconnects, either or both that can be used with a front wheel drive vehicle. I used the pump on two different Caravans, and it works just dandy! You'll need a 12vdc supply for it, however. The axle disconnects look easy enough to install, but can be a pain to have to crawl under the tow vehicle to lock in/out. Think rainy night, mud, snow... snakes and spiders and ants, oh my. The pump can be a simple part of your harness. The control box will tell you if the pump is working or not. BTW, in a pinch (and for entire trips), some RV'rs just leave the tow vehicle idling as they tow it. It keeps the tranny oil moving, just as the Remco pump does, and that's all that's needed to save the tranny from burning up.... Also, BTW... many vehicles can be towed four-down, without added garbagiola. You can find a list *here*. Just scroll down to "dingy guide". Enjoy! | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 141 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.60 Rating: N/A |
Not only the tow bar is needed, the frame work that attaches to the car is an expensive item also. the installation of the system can be expensive, so look at the big picture.>>>Dan | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 597 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.35.55 Rating: N/A |
Nillie, you had it right sell the Ford and buy a Jeep, you will pass out at the price for the Remco equipment good luck | ||
| Paso One (Paso_1)
Registered Member Username: Paso_1 Post Number: 119 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.165.246.239  Rating: N/A |
I think the deflated air bags on that lincoln will not allow you to tow it. JMHO | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 65 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.52.105.142 Rating: N/A |
Okay. Okay, 'nuff said - As expected, the consensus is: Trade that silly old obese car. But you gotta understand (imagine tears) that ‘Nellie' has been my trusty pard through thick and thin. She hauled my gear - guitars and suitcases and sound equipment - long before I got my (even more obese) bus. Which - unlike poor old ‘Nellie’ - has yet to deliver me to ANY positive cash flow situation. Hey, FF - if you're around - what's that time-worn definition of a boat? “A hole in the water into which one pours endless streams of money.” I thank you all for your wise and completely honest comments. But now, I just gotta think... gotta think… Nellie Wilson | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 703 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.146.79.19 Rating: N/A |
The companies that make the tow bar, make the mounting brackets. The ones for the Caravan/Voyager ran around $50, if I didn't buy the bar; Mine came with the bar. U-Haul will make 'em up, just as they make up hitch brackets. They're not that expensive. The benefits of towing four-down vs a dolly are so great, that it's enough to make a grown man weep. That said....... If you're going to be changing tow vehicles frequently, then it's a different ball game. It can get expensive to swap the stuff from vehicle to vehicle every few months. With a dolly, you have to remove the vehicle, then the dolly, to back up. Then attach the dolly and remount the vehicle to go. It's a tedious process. You also have another set of tires to worry about. (I've backed the four-down over two hundred feet without problem, and removed and reconned within three minutes, typically). On the plus side? If you get a dolly with brakes, you'll have two wheel brakes for the towed vehicle. Whoopie! Let's all sing. Seriously, it's better to tow four-down, than with a dolly. Leaving the vehicle idling while towing works well. I did that prior to buying the Remco tranny pump. No biggie, it doesn't use that much gas idling. In your case, it would keep the air bags inflated. I would take the vehicle and tow bar to U-Haul, or a welding shop, and have 'em do it to it. Yank the thing around and see what you think. I think..... You'll be happy! | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1465 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160  Rating: N/A |
Nellie - FYI, one of the most popular toads (dinghy, etc.) is the Honda CRV-4. Small full-time four-wheel drive SUV that's suprisingly roomy inside and gets decent fuel mileage. Both automatics and manuals can be flat-towed. However, I understand that the newer models, starting with 2006 IIRC, cannot be flat-towed anymore, due to changes inside the automatic. Understand your attachment to that big old Lincoln - it's tough to let go sometimes, especially if it's been dependable. But if you're thinking about a change, consider the CRV-4. FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| Greg Roberts (Eagle 20) (Gregeagle20)
Registered Member Username: Gregeagle20 Post Number: 230 Registered: 4-2002 Posted From: 70.197.166.73 Rating: N/A |
Jeep Liberty is my favorite. Drives really nice, not too heavy, decent hauling capabilities, reasonable mileage for an SUV (23-26mpg), goes like a 4X4 jeep, plenty of power with the V-6, parts are more reasonably priced than most rice burners, the liberty is reliable, and tows like a champ 4 down. I am biased for the Jeeps because they have given me such great service and resale. | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 142 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.60 Rating: N/A |
I have an 04 liberty and it tows great.>>>Dan | ||
| J.C.B. (Eagle)
Registered Member Username: Eagle Post Number: 149 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 166.214.203.217  Rating: N/A |
Go to the FMCA web site and find the towable site. There are many Ford, GM, and Jeep vehicles that can be towed four down. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 651 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Well, Food for thought... What do buses and air ride Continentals have in common? G | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 598 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.35.55 Rating: N/A |
do they leak down ? (Message edited by luvrbus on December 08, 2008) | ||
| Paso One (Paso_1)
Registered Member Username: Paso_1 Post Number: 120 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.165.246.239 Rating: N/A |
Yes A friend of mine has one it sits pretty low when parked for a long time. Low rider comes to mind | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 236 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.60  Rating: N/A |
I don't know by the time I added up all it would take to outfit my my wife's explorer for towing I figured I could rent a LOT of cars before I would excede that figure. Just another opinion to consider plus there is no mileage hit on the bus | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 710 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.146.80.76 Rating: N/A |
I dunno... I guess a reality check is in order here.. I bought the foldable tow bar, including brackets, from the manufacturer at closeout price of around $300, shipped to my door. I bought the Remco pump and wiring for under $200, used. I paid around $30 to have it installed because I was too lazy to do it. And prior to buying the pump, we towed the van as it idled. Good grief men... It doesn't take fortune to tow a vehicle. Nel's already got access to a decent tow bar, all she needs are brackets for it, and a hitch for the bus. She can buy a tranny lube pump on Ebay for $100 or less... if she really wants it.... and hell, a lousy $10.00 12v air compressor should keep those air bags inflated. | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 237 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.60 Rating: N/A |
Well I guess some cars are easier to set up than others. For the explorer I was looking at a driveshaft disconnect tow bar and plates all totalling $1500 from Remco | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 711 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.146.80.76 Rating: N/A |
A buddy told me that he wanted the tow dolly because he changed cars often, and couldn't justify spending cash to adapt a vehicle he wasn't going to keep forever. Good reason! But hey.. I don't plan to keep any vehicle "forever"; Who does? The dolly's OK, I suppose, but there is -absolutely- nothing more convenient to tow, than a vehicle towed four-down. It can be done cheap or expensive, but in my opinion, it's worth the time to figure out a way to do it, that fits the budget. Just my opinion, of cuz.. | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 81 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 72.62.191.127 Rating: N/A |
Used Jeep Cherokee.....lots of them out there, should be able to find a good one for a decent price with the brackets already on it. They tow 4 down even with 4x4 and auto tranny. Don't need to idle the vehicle when towing, don't need to limit your speed and don't have to stop every couple of hundred miles and run the engine for a few minutes. Also a fair amount of room with the back seat down for storage and halfway decent mileage...i get 20 mpg on the hiway. | ||
| David B. Sweet (Sweets4104)
Registered Member Username: Sweets4104 Post Number: 14 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 71.195.101.200  Rating: N/A |
You might check the Motor Home Magazine listing of towable vehicles. We tow an '05 Chevy Cavalier,it is towed 4 down. The transmission is an automatic, a little research is how we found our car. Blessings, David | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 654 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Well, Luvrbus and Paso are correct, a buddy had one that leaked down overnight. My bus leaks down too. BUT, the answer I was looking for was.....??? COMPRESSED AIR!!! So, all Nellie needs is a baseplate, a lube pump, and a little air piping with a couple of quick disconnects, a check valve and the bus will keep the car up too. G | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 76.64.240.84 Rating: N/A |
Just let me just see if I have this right? I have a trailer hitch and the use of a tow bar. So I just need mounts welded (bolted, whatever) to the car... something the tow bar can attach to? Have I got things straight to that point?? So, to tow, I just start the engine and put the car in neutral? And that's it? Maybe I'll get the tranny pump and air hookups at some point but IF the above is correct, it seems a cheap and easy solution. But one niggling worry - everyone around here told me I'd ruin my tranny if I towed the car 4-down? Is that ONLY because of no fluid circulating? And idleing completely cures that problem? Okay, so if the car's idleing, I could leave the lights on, right? The headlamps stay on all the time anyway (it's a Canadian thing.) Or do I still need separate TOAD lights hooked into the bus? I've got the plug already installed... just don't know if it's 12V or 24V? To John MC9: When you towed your van idleing, did it burn a lot of gas? Did you have to worry about running out? And how about overheating -was that ever a concern? Thanks to everyone for all this great information. Nellie Wilson | ||
| J.C.B. (Eagle)
Registered Member Username: Eagle Post Number: 150 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 166.214.86.40 Rating: N/A |
Forget Remco they do not make anything for a 1997 Lincoln. Tim some Ford Explorers do not need a drive shaft disconnect. Most all 4X4 Explorers just need to have the tranny reprogrammed to be able to tow 4 down. | ||
| Patrick levenson (Zubzub)
Registered Member Username: Zubzub Post Number: 33 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 69.159.123.38  Rating: N/A |
I hate pulling a toad! Doesn't seem to change the handling or milage of the bus it just makes traveling no fun. Every campground etc is a pain, even turning around in a Walmart parking lot needs to be eyed carefully. John MC9 says he has backed up 200 feet. I found over 5 feet and it started to jack knife, I didn 't try to work out how to do it further cause it was too much of a pain. All this was with a 35' bus. I think I will get a moped and throw it in a bay, that way I'll have transport and still have the ability to have some fun adventuring down weird old roads, or camping in nice spots instead of RV park drive through. This is getting way off topic but me and a buddy are putting together a '55 BMW boxer, very old school beater bike. Maybe I'll use that as my run about. p.s. can anyone tell I just finished my last contract before xmas and have plenty of time between admin tasks to yammer on?  | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1257 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: N/A |
I'm going to use a Chineese copy of a Honda Trail 70. Handlebars fold down and can be set upright in bay. Licensed and with 125cc engine it came with will run 45 with a top speed of around 55. Great for going almost everywhere, but probably won't quite be up to towing my coach if it quits. Maybe on a downgrade... err... steep downgrade. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 715 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.146.79.160 Rating: N/A |
"So I just need mounts welded (bolted, whatever)... something the tow bar can attach to?" Yup "to tow, I just start the engine and put the car in neutral? I'd ruin my tranny if I towed the car 4-down? Is that ONLY because of no fluid circulating? And idleing completely cures that problem? " Yup, yup, and yup. "do I still need separate TOAD lights hooked into the bus?" Yup (if you're running a 24 volt bus, the cheapest way, is to wire a 12v bulb in series with each 12v bulb you're going to power with 24v. You'd want to do that at the harness, that you're using between the vehicles. And....If you do that at the harness between the vehicles, you may see the glow up front, letting you know both lights are lighting.) "When you towed your van idleing, did it burn a lot of gas? Did you have to worry about running out? And how about overheating -was that ever a concern? " Nope, nope and nope. I think it used less than a gallon an hour, if that much; I worried more about it stalling. Keeping the tranny's oil circulating thru the cooler, is the most important thing. Running, neutral, brakes off, steering wheel unlocked... Towing an idling vehicle down the road, is like coasting downhill. The air going through the radiator will cool it down easier than if you were driving it. The Remco lube pump works with any car or van, as far as I know. Click on the link in a previous post, and read the info about it, it explains what it does, and how. I felt better after reading it. You could probably make a lube pump yourself, but the Remco has a neat indicator system, that alerts you if it's not running. As with anything in life, common sense should prevail. They tell people not to tow over 55 mph. Good idea. I towed the running van behind a 33' Winnebago at 75-85 mph. I'm nutz. In the rain, yet. Real nutz. I get into more trouble when I try to act sane. Seriously. Real trouble. Sane. It's nutz. Take it slow and easy, until you feel like going nutz. Then call me. I'm in the mood. HAR! Seeya'. | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 314 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 72.12.39.78  Rating: N/A |
Nellie wrote "So I just need mounts welded (bolted, whatever)... something the tow bar can attach to?" Nellie, I have a VW Jetta wagon (diesel so it gets about 55 MPG - a little better than the bus but one cylinder on the bus is the same size as the whole engine in the VW). It has the plastic front bumper/air dam which makes it hard to attach a tow bar but I have a tow plate from BlueOx. It mounted by taking off the bumper -- then the tow plate goes on and then the bumper again -- the bolt that normally holds the bumper on then "sandwiches" the whole thing together. This plate is a flat piece of metal about as wide as the bumper and 6" or so high. It has little "sockets" that the tow bar attaches to and these sockets stick out through the radiator grille. I'm guessing that the Lincoln plate would be different in detail but would work similarly in general. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.49.115.60 Rating: N/A |
John MC9 And Oonrahnjay (now, that's quite a handle) Gol-Darn, you guys are smart! Where'd you get all this cluey stuff? Probably not worth a crap in the coat and tie world, but means a lot to me (I hate coats and ties anyway). BTW... did you see the 'Full Monty? Pretty funny. Sorry. Sidetracked. Who's that kid up above? The one with the green DD cap? No way that's Patrick... is it? Come back. Nellie Wilson | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 315 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 72.12.39.78 Rating: N/A |
Nellie wrote "John MC9 And Oonrahnjay (now, that's quite a handle) Gol-Darn, you guys are smart! Where'd you get all this cluey stuff?" John's smart - I'm not. I just love my bus and the hope that it will work well (before I'm too old to drive it). On the tow plate, I asked the question here a while ago - a very helpful busnut let me know how it worked on his Jetta and offered me the plate off his car (his wife wanted to upgrade to a Passat). I'm not smart - I just ask questions. (And sorry about the photo, that's a deux range' but I like the un range' better.) On the tow plate issue, BlueOx has a pretty sophisticated website and for many towplates, they have photos, copies of installation instructions, etc. It appears to me (limited experience) that the more complicated the installation, the more expensive the parts. BH NC USA (Message edited by oonrahnjay on December 11, 2008) | ||
| Ednj (Ednj)
Registered Member Username: Ednj Post Number: 217 Registered: 3-2003 Posted From: 67.85.237.82  Rating: N/A |
You can always get one of these =  | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 717 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 68.18.41.101 Rating: N/A |
Hey Nellie.... Listen... There's nothing "smart" with anything I do, I just look for the easiest/cheapest way out of a major project. Using relays, and a 12v supply is probably the best way to provide lights to the towed vehicky. The schematics are in the archives here! And.... it's not too difficult to use the light package, that places like "Towmaster" sell. Just drill a hole in the rear lamp assy and pop the bulb socket in, with a 24vdc bulb. Run the separate wires to the bus. You can also buy a magnetic light bar, fit it with 24v bulbs, and stick it in the rear window, or on top of the deck. Run those wires to the bus. Keep in mind, that using the 12v bulb in series, you may still have to use a diode isolator box, to isolate the bus input from the car's system. You don't want to fry the car's computer! The more I think about it, the more I think the light bar might be the better choice for you. Totally separate from the car, and portable. Yeah. Lotsa' ways to the end.. Whatever's easiest and least expensive, is what I go for. Yet still..... I'm broke. Go figure? No smarts here, just wild thoughts. Roll on. | ||
| Patrick levenson (Zubzub)
Registered Member Username: Zubzub Post Number: 35 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.53.180.107 Rating: N/A |
that's my co pilot/son Zubin. The other important thing in the pic is I found a Canadian Detroit Diesel cap. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 596 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.82.9.79 Rating: N/A |
"Hey, FF - if you're around - what's that time-worn definition of a boat? “A hole in the water into which one pours endless streams of money.” The rest is, While someone pours endless cold water on you . A towd can be a big pain or a pleasure. BUY an old car to use as a TOWD. Far easier than hauling a 6000lb lump with an auto tranny, flat or on a dolly. We got a 1980VW Diesel, stick shift , cheap tow bar , cheap base plate (what hooks the tow bar to the car). A few seconds off and on, no legal requirement for brakes in the TOWD at under 2000lbs. For lights we use the magnetic units , EZ to use with 12V or 24V, and useable when towing any trailer . We dragged our 1055 Feathercraft 12ft Deluxe Runabout all over , and its a snap to hook up.AS is a 14 ft Featherlight box. I"m LAZY , so much prefer the KISS to the horror complex shows. The tow bar stows in place on the VW (sticking up) so disconect the ball,tip up the hitch, take off the chain, unplug the lights and youre off . About a 60 second job,, DIYW FF | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 315 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
I was going to chime in a couple of days ago with the same idea as Fred. We have Jetta's in the family and the older ones weigh in at 1926 lbs. Joe. |