| Author | Message | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.49.114.56  Rating: N/A |
Okay, I've been quiet for a few days and now I'm just bursting with questions. So, just in case, what's the safe procedure for towing this thing? Or should I just drive it (very slowly) even if it's not aired up on one corner? I've read several different opinions but they don't always agree. The one time I had to have it towed, they picked it up (not very high, mind you) by the back end, but I've since read that's a no-no. Or is it okay? Thanks, Nellie Wilson | ||
| Mark Morgan (Stormcloud)
Registered Member Username: Stormcloud Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2008 Posted From: 216.36.188.174 Rating: N/A |
Hi: Everything I've read says 'Don't Tow From The Back'. Proper method would be to pull the drive axles and have the wrecker use the axle lift on the front axle, or if this isn't possible, call for a Landoll trailer. I have seen charter buses come back into the city with blown airbags....they sure lean a lot, especially when its a front bag thats failed, but they drive 'em in (slowly). Personally, I wouldn't tow mine from the back, and I would certainly drive it (carefully) with a blown airbag, but only to the repair shop. Best regards. Mark | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 131 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 206.58.200.38  Rating: N/A |
Never pick one up from the rear (unless it's a school bus or Bluebird). First choice always would be a Landoll trailer if one is available, no damage that way and no having to pull axles or disconnect the driveline (an MC-9 is only about 10'7" high, no problem on a Landoll). Second choice would be a professional (not a hack) who knows how to operate a heavy duty tow truck and wheel lift from the front. I have moved a lot of coaches and a Landoll is the way to go. If going a short distance with a blown bellows, just drive it in if you can keep the air up above 90 lbs. | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 173 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 208.81.157.90 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, Another way to look at it is a tow truck with bounce you bus over the same bumps you will drive it over to get to the garage. You might even go slower and more carefully than a tow truck driver. If you can't maintain air cap the line to the offending bag. Good luck Don 4107 | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph_peters)
Registered Member Username: Ralph_peters Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2008 Posted From: 206.251.11.109 Rating: N/A |
I drove my mci-7 from Charleston S.C. to central Pa. with the left drive air bags blown an blocked air supply. Oh the bump stop was metal to metal. By the way my present mc-8 was towed, prior to my purchase, 1 they did air it up, 2 did not pull an axle. Result transmission oil pan skidded, and large u-shapped hole loss of all oil. But will take a chance on driving it some day. It has moved on it's own power about 300ft forward an 100ft back. Bottom line if you have can block air leak drive it. ARE you sure it has a air leak? Can you build a ramp from 2x10s ? | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 404 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.210.137.159 Rating: N/A |
Nellie... FWIW... I do not know where you are, but if you are in a metropolitan area chances are there is a large Bus facility close by. Would suggest you give them a call and " make friends" with them. They can be of great help in many ways...particularly if you get to know the service manager. Large school bus facilities are also a great source of information. IF you do not have towing insurance, you should do so....reasonable, ($109 US) usually cover not only the coach, but your private vehicles as well (cars). "Roadcare", now thru Camping World, is what we have used for years. never a disappointment... and have used it numerous times since we first joined (2001). 1-888-803-1528. good in US, Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico and Canada......and Roadcare makes all the arrangements.....with folks that know what they are doing. Well worth the $$$ I assure you.  RCB | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 76 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.52.100.49 Rating: N/A |
Great advice guys... geez. what a knowledge base out there! Reading your responses made me recall something: that tow truck driver (who pulled from the back) didn't want to hassle with pulling the drive axles (on a miserable winter day). Ralph, I notice you said they "2 did not pull an axle." Is that what caused your damage? Or was it unrelated to that? (Sure sorry that happened...heck of a way to take delivery of your bus!) Hey R.C., thanks for info on 'Roadcare'- I just (yesterday, in fact) renewed my AAA coverage, but might try your suggestion when it expires. AAA's been good, but they don't know a lot about buses, that's for sure. Thanks to all, Nellie Wilson PS. Hey, where's everybody's picture? C'mon guys, pictures are part of the fun. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1469 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160  Rating: N/A |
Nellie - As a follow-up to what RC posted about a local bus garage, might I suggest you "invest" about $40 or so for your very own copy of "The Bus Garage Index", published annually by Bus Ride magazine, one of the industry trade journals. Lists every bus garage in the US & Canada, including contact info, and, in some cases, actual GPS coordinates! www.busride.com Link to order is among the buttons on the LH side of the home page. I have no affiliation with them, just industry experience. . . About towing insurance: Be very, very careful with AAA. Unless you've got their "super heavy duty gold platinum silver-plated autographed card", chances are they're gonna tell you they don't tow anything over 27 feet long - especially here in the States. Just an FYI - do your homework! And for heaven's sake - keep smiling! Makes folk wonder what you've been up to! FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 77 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.52.100.49 Rating: N/A |
Oopps! I'll check that out straight away, R.J. (Hey, that kinda rhymes, doesn't it?) Main reason I've got the coverage is for the bus... bummer if they said, 'Sorry Lady, too big to haul.' While I'm pecking away, what do you think about my question above... pulling the drive axles? Essential or just a precaution? I've got the old OEM 4-speed crash box. A Dana 4484, I think. Thanks, Nellie Wilson | ||
| Ednj (Ednj)
Registered Member Username: Ednj Post Number: 220 Registered: 3-2003 Posted From: 67.85.237.82  Rating: N/A |
Definitely pull the axle!!! | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 901 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.54.29.215 Rating: |
You do not need to pull any axles with a manual transmission, just make sure the transmission is in neutral. all the gears will be lubed will being towed. An automatic transmission relies on a pump in the transmission to keep everything lubed. If the engine is not running, the pump is not working (no lubrication). Removing an axle (or 2) will prevent the driveshaft from turning, which keeps the shafts inside the transmission from turning (and requiring lubrication). Jack | ||
| Ednj (Ednj)
Registered Member Username: Ednj Post Number: 221 Registered: 3-2003 Posted From: 67.85.237.82 Rating: N/A |
Hey, where's everybody's picture? C'mon guys, pictures are part of the fun.   Axle pulled - Wheel lift 4 speed manual trans (Message edited by ednj on December 17, 2008) (Message edited by ednj on December 17, 2008) (Message edited by ednj on December 17, 2008) | ||
| Tim (Timkar)
Registered Member Username: Timkar Post Number: 116 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 24.64.223.203 Rating: N/A |
Axles were pulled and being disconnected from a tow in "Winterpeg" - March 05  | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 609 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.35.55 Rating: N/A |
I am with Boomer on the Landoll, last year was the 1st time I needed a tow back to EL Paso using the Coach Net towing service I told them I wanted a Landoll and that is what they sent me.Eagle have a built in tow bar bracket I guess they were towed with all 3 axles on the ground. good luck | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 405 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.208.205.35 Rating: N/A |
Nellie...if it were me (and it's not) I would cancel the AAA and get with Roadcare ASAP. Even take a bit of a hit on cancellation if necessary. Just my way....these folks have been"super" to us over the years. Last year my wife's VW "died" on a return trip home to NM, short of a hundred miles south of Colorado Springs where she had been visiting her son. She called Roadcare; they dispatched a tow truck from Trinidad, CO .... towed her back to Colorado Springs, (gave her a ride too) and then returned to Trinidad...Would guess close to 300 miles round trip.....no questions asked...and no charge. Period. Pretty good testimonial for them. When I first started with them in 2001 the bill was $79...now $109. A great deal...we have 4 vehicles...all but one have needed the "service", from flat tires to towing the coach. FWIW RCB | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1470 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160 Rating: N/A |
Nellie - No need to pull the axles with a stick shift, as previously mentioned. You've got to meet Buswarrior - he and #2 daughter Bri will be delighted to meet a fellow busnut who knows how to drive a stick-shift coach! They live just outside Toronto. . . Tim - Hey, you've got one of the rare A2 models! 96 or 102 wide? All - As has been said many times before, a picture is worth a thousand words. Both Ed & Tim's coaches are being towed by a Class 8 tow truck with what's known as a "stinger", which you can just make out in Ed's second photo. The stinger picks the front of the coach up by the front axle. Perfectly fine way to tow for short/medium hauls, but for the really long haul, a Landoll trailer is preferred. Main point is, however, that when you call for roadservice, make sure they understand that you need the Class 8 rig. Here's one instance where it's good to tell them "Greyhound bus" to get the correct image in the operator's mind! Otherwise, they might send out something like this:  FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Tim (Timkar)
Registered Member Username: Timkar Post Number: 117 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 24.64.223.203 Rating: N/A |
Hi RJ...It is a 102A2. Rode nicely from Toronto back to the west Coast (except for blower drive gear failure). Sold it in 06 and have had a few Eagles since then, but am "busless" at present. | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph_peters)
Registered Member Username: Ralph_peters Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2008 Posted From: 206.251.11.109 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, Not beeing aired up caused damage to trans oil pan. With stick shift, on short tows may not need axel pull. check your e-mail | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 321 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 68.84.6.177  Rating: N/A |
If you're towing a high vehicle, you have to have a "low tow".  If you lift one end, that end will be "overheight" and so the tow truck has to lift the axle (or frame tow point), then remove the wheels and finally drop the vehicle down so that it's highest point isn't above legal height. | ||
| Ednj (Ednj)
Registered Member Username: Ednj Post Number: 222 Registered: 3-2003 Posted From: 67.85.237.82 Rating: N/A |
RJ, As has been said many times before, a picture is worth a thousand words. Both Ed & Tim's coaches are being towed by a Class 8 tow truck with what's known as a "stinger", which you can just make out in Ed's second photo. The stinger picks the front of the coach up by the front axle. > the one towing my coach is a wheel lift, not by the axle on a independent. Here's one for ya.  | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 132 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 206.58.200.38 Rating: N/A |
That guy in the picture above is risking buckling that MCI. Should have read the maintenance manual. | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 133 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 206.58.200.38 Rating: |
Here's one of my moves on a Landoll trailer. Fast and damage free every time.  | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 319 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Landoll is definitely the best way to go. When my last two treasures where brought home, it was on Landolls. Quite the sight when you have two in tandem. Picture 39 posts below this one. Joe. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 80 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 76.68.202.92 Rating: N/A |
Wow! I asked for pictures... and boy, did I get pictures! Great photos, really cool. You guys have some really nice buses... and even if you're getting a tow (no fun, I'm sure) at least you're OUT there, just cruisin' that shiny old highway. Keeps me alive, just dreaming about it. Whether to pull - or not pull - those axles seems less than unanimous, but looks like most everyone agrees that driving beats towing... given the choice? Hey, Boomer, you say "Fast and damage free every time." No offense but, honestly, what more could really happen? Thanks for all the input. Nellie Wilson | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 320 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
To pull or not to pull Nellie there used to be a fellow on this board that had a 5c like yours that had to be towed. It happened in Alaska as I recall, and he ended up with a problem in the dropbox that he attributed to the tow job. A long and arduous fight resulted. Given a choice, I would pull them, unless you were absolutely certain that the coach remained aired up and your driveshaft alignment remained in its normal aired up driving position. Joe. | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 134 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 75.216.71.151 Rating: |
I've had damage by tow operators such as damage to the paint from letting their light bar swing on the rear, beating the u-joints out and/or losing the caps; lift chains damaging the front of the bus, etc, etc. Most of that is eliminated by hauling them, although you still have to watch the operators very carefully. | ||
| Arnie Smith (Arniemc5a)
Registered Member Username: Arniemc5a Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 24.71.46.230  Rating: N/A |
Joe P's post about the busted up drop box in Alaska is the very reason you have to take out the axles.. With them out there is no turning in the tranny and related drive train etc.. This means nothing is turning but the bearings in the wheel.. You have to fashion a cap to put over the hole left when you removed the axle... which can be made from a chunk of cardboard box... but the tow truck driver (if he works for a reputable company) usually has all the items required for the task.. Also... if any of you have the "auto shift" transmission similar to those found in the highway trucks, you have to pull the axle... There is a great risk to the transmission. I found this out this summer when I blew a turbo on the truck I was driving out side of Vegas. The tow truck driver informed me of this fact.. He only took them out on the one side.. For what it's worth.. Arnie | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 188 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.99.25.84  Rating: N/A |
If I was calling for a tow, I would have the axles out before they got there. Not a big job and you will know where your axles are when you need them. | ||
| Jim Connelly (Desertbum)
Registered Member Username: Desertbum Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
Help..I am trying to tow my non running 4106 back to the yard. It is about 3 miles away on level ground. I have a friend with a big rig to tow it but I aired up with my external air compresor to 100 lbs but the foot brakes dont work. Only the emergency brake. I tapped in the air tank, under the floor by the drivers seat. My dash gauge reads 100 pounds. I have not had any brake problems when engine ran. Do I need to tap in somewhere else? Thanks for you help. Jim GM 4106. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1266 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.69.188 Rating: N/A |
Jim, if the system is stock, there is a check valve that is supposed to let auxiliary tank pressure go back into the main air system. The gauge is showing you auxiliary pressure, and from what you are saying, it sounds like your coach has spring brakes with the parking side connected to the auxiliary system. If all that is the case, you will probably want to connect to another tank. The fitting on the bulkhead in the engine compartment probably would be best. That way, the air should reach the main tank before it goes to the auxiliary system, and everything should be operational. If you do have spring brakes, you should reconnect the parking circuit to the main system. Regardless of which system you have, the defective valve ought to be repaired. I'm not sure of the right name for the valve, but I believe that it is connected to the minimum pressure valve that provides protection for the main system. Good luck on your towing and repairs. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1503 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.71.102.226  Rating: N/A |
All bets are off if this is a spring brake conversion. You need someone who knows what they are doing to trace your system and then decide whether is has been safely installed. The aux is not a good place to be plumbing the parking circuit. And I don't mean the average mechanic when I say someone who knows.... happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 829 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.69 Rating: N/A |
Jack and RJ, The GMC manual transmissions have oil pumps, that is the reason they use light weight oil instead of gear oil. I have a couple of old GMC big trucks that have the same setup. What I'm not sure of is what drives the oil pump and it's too cold to go out and look at my manuals. If the pump is driven by the trans input shaft then having the output shaft driven by the wheels during towing is not a good idea. | ||
| david moody (Buzzincuzzin)
Registered Member Username: Buzzincuzzin Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2009 Posted From: 69.254.222.160 Rating: N/A |
What's a good guess on the cost of a landoll 350 mile I10 Florida run? | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1564 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.66.17.61 Rating: N/A |
google your local yellow pages and ask for a quote. You'll be paying for both there and back. $2 a mile would be a real steal. may be closer to $5? Local market conditions play a huge role in low boy prices across the continent. Depends on what it takes to load and fasten, the routing, whether special permits are needed, pilot car, etc. happy coaching! buswarrior |
