| Author | Message | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 630 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.20 Rating: N/A |
Here in FL we always bought new tires , and would change them out at 7 years. The truck guys are always delighted to get tires for about $100 -$125 with most of the tread still intact. Doesn't take them long to wear them out. On the FLX board , there is an OPPOSITE "system". Interesting concept? "Consider buying used truck tires (11R22.5). RV usage usually will wear very little tread before you should replace them because of excessive age (8 years). As a result, you will most likely throw away about 80% of the tread. There is no need to purchase an RV tire that has 100% of its tread. Additionally, tires with 100% of their tread (new tires) will consume 7-10% more fuel than tires that are near the end of their useful tread life. So, if you buy new tires and dispose of them before you consume much of the tread, you will be consuming the most amount of fuel. If you buy tires that have 30% tread left, and dispose of them in the same time period, you will save both on the purchase price and the fuel consumption. With my last tire change, I change them due to old age and the tires had most of their tread remaining. I purchased a set of used 11R22.5 tires for $100 each that still had 30% tread left. The date code indicated that the tires were only 1 year old when I purchased them. That means that I would have 7 years of life left if I don't wear them down first (very unlikely). Additionally, I get better mileage than if I had purchased new tires. It is extremely important for you to learn to read the date code. You don't want to buy a tire that is older than a year or two. You can find out how to read the date code at: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11" FF | ||
| Jack Hart (Jackhartjr)
Registered Member Username: Jackhartjr Post Number: 42 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 205.188.117.73 Rating: N/A |
Hi Fred, where are you finding good used tires for $100.00 each? Inquiring minds HAVE to know!LOL I disagree about newer tires getting less fuel mileage, that goes against all I have been taught about tires. (If they are newer they are bigger meaning they don't turn quite as many relolutions per mile than one that is near the end if its life.) Please explain? Jack | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1453 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.121.244  Rating: N/A |
Hello. Fred has been kind enough to quote that bit from another board, to relay the concept of saving some cash by buying young casings with the tread mostly used, from a trucker. This way of sharing tires with a trucker doesn't tie up the capital under your bus, versus you running the new tires and selling them somewhat discounted to the trucker. Go around to any truck tire dealer, or a trucking outfit, they'll be happy, if somewhat confused, to see you and hear your proposal. As for the bit about the fuel mileage....the original author has missed the important bit and jumped to the wrong conclusion: New tires will have a negative effect on fuel economy of 7 to 10 % of the fuel economy that is associated with tire rolling resistance. NOT, the overall fuel economy of the vehicle. We may relax on this point, I highly doubt that a busnut will be able to produce repeatable results showing any fuel economy change due to the tread depth on the tires. The effect is not big enough that other things, like how you use the throttle pedal, won't make a bigger impact. Yes, at first thought, a new tire is bigger and should assist somehow in fuel economy, but in layman's terms, more tire tread equals slightly more squirming, which resists rolling. So new tires don't roll as easily as more worn tires. Within the narrow measure of tire related fuel economy, resistance to rolling has a far bigger effect on energy needed to roll the tire down the road than the slightly different circumference will effect the gearing related fuel economy gains or losses. If you find some in-depth fuel economy related writings about tire rolling resistance, the smart folks can explain it better than I can. Here ends the consolidation and interpretation of my historical readings... happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 113 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.179.147.233  Rating: N/A |
The problem I have with this discussion is the reason we change them out off of a semi truck is that the tread is no longer suitable for use on the road. The less tread you have the less water it is able to displace when driving in the rain. The less water displaced the sooner the vehicle "hydroplanes". I guess I figure if I am going to put a 30K plus lb vehicle on the road, I want the safest tire available regardless of the fact it may cost a few extra bucks for fuel. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1455 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.121.244 Rating: N/A |
I think the point is to save money on tires. A busnut will save no measurable fuel between new and worn tires, and that should not enter into this tire funding thought process. Many truck tire trade-ins still have suitable tread left on them to keep a busnut happy. Let's remember that many of the busnuts have budgeting challenges and new tires are completely out of the question. Running used tires, yes, tread is not full, but sufficient, is arguably better than running the ancient sidewall cracked tires many are forced to continue using. It's easy to toss the credit card down for new tires when there's money in the bank, but what do you do when the credit card has been taken away? The original post shared an inexpensive and honourable alternative to keep the coach safe with some fresher shoes. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1282 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: N/A |
"With the last tire change, I change them due to old age" Fred, It shouldn't matter how old you are to need to change your tires.  | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1283 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: N/A |
Truckers don't run my tire size. Buying from a charter coach company would be good if you can find any. | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 345 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 4.153.53.140  Rating: N/A |
BusWarrior wrote: "Many truck tire trade-ins still have suitable tread left on them to keep a busnut happy. " I recently put new shoes on my bus. I bought two new tires for the steers and was able to pick up four used ones for the rear axle. The tire dealer I dealt with said that if a trucker has a flat and puts a new tire on, then wears that set out and is left with 9/17 tires with 15% tread and one with 40% tread, the dealer will keep the one with 40%. "Bigrigger" is right that you don't want to run worn out tires, but (if you keep your eyes open, have a knowledgeable tire dealer -- and one that has a contract with big companies, "owner-operators" are less likely to throw good tires ways -- and can wait a few days for the "good deals" to show up), you can do OK. My experience (limited to this one incident but pretty carefully considered) indicates that FFred is right on all his points. | ||
| mark (Coolbus)
Registered Member Username: Coolbus Post Number: 68 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 71.54.194.136 Rating: N/A |
BigRigger; next time the tires on your big rig are down to about 30% remaining, try posting an ad here on the new classified ads on BNO. You will get a decent price for them before they are actually worn out, make a busnut a happy camper too! Then you can get you some 'knee deep' rubber for the semi truck! WinWin situation! | ||
| Mike Eades (Mike4905)
Registered Member Username: Mike4905 Post Number: 178 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 97.106.122.149 Rating: N/A |
I drive both and I know we run our tires down to dot levels and I would not put them on my 4905. They are to risky to use for my family. I understand money but I have seen the damage that can come from a tire problem. Not me | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 346 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 4.153.53.77 Rating: N/A |
Mike - that was my point. *Never* touch a tire that's worn down to (or, IMO, near) DOT levels. But a lot of trucks that get a "new set of tires" will have many that are at DOT levels but maybe one or two will have 30-40% (or more) tread left. THOSE are the tires that make sense; the ones that are truly worn out, you leave alone. And wear isn't the only thing - check out everything you can, "bump" the tires at pressure, make sure they they're within easy balance limits. But some will be within new dates, and safe and solid. I was lucky in that I had a truck tire place that has five drive-in service bays. There are literally hundreds of "take-offs" coming out of that place every week; most of them are junk but some are safe and useful, the service people at a place that big are experienced enough know the difference, too. (Message edited by oonrahnjay on January 12, 2009) | ||
| Keith Wood (Ft6)
Registered Member Username: Ft6 Post Number: 74 Registered: 8-2008 Posted From: 75.210.7.10 Rating: N/A |
"It's easy to toss the credit card down for new tires when there's money in the bank, but what do you do when the credit card has been taken away? " I would suggest liquor stores near freeway onramps, but I guess it's hard to hide a 40-foot getaway "car" in traffic, ha? | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 115 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 76.64.240.170  Rating: N/A |
Fred, your quoted article opens with "Consider buying used truck tires (11R22.5)." Does the author mean we should run these instead of the 12Rs? I've had tire store guys tell me these would be fine, particularly on the rear duals (since we don't carry the weight of the commercial coaches). Just wondering. Nellie Wilson | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 250 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62  Rating: N/A |
Nellie, The origional poster over on the Flx board has a much smaller coach and I beleive 11R's were standard for that model so the size may not be apropriate for what you are driving. Tires can be confusing as you can see from many of my posts prior to purchasing | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph_peters)
Registered Member Username: Ralph_peters Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2008 Posted From: 206.251.8.2 Rating: N/A |
My 12R drives are solid side (konbby) mudders, will not run steers on rear. They cost the same as a 11X 24.5. Put the best you can on steer, than next on rear, just keep them the same height or within 1/8 inch and same air pressure. Many studies show a 10% difference in pressure makes a big difference in tire failure. Foot print means a bunch. | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 114 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.179.147.233 Rating: N/A |
Mike Eades, that was my point exactly. If the DOT says they are no good for my truck, then I don't want to sell them to someone else to run on anything except maybe a off road trailer or something.Also like Nellie my bus is 12's and my trucks are 11's. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 739 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.230.99.41  Rating: N/A |
Wow, this thread is like Deja' Vu' all over again.. (Don't misunderestimate this) 1. Truck/bus tires are "regroovable"; new threads can be cut into the bald casings. It's DOT approved, and it's stamped on the side of the tires. It's been done for years, buses and trucks! 2. Truck/bus tires that have been "recapped", use old casings; they have a new rubber thread applied to the bald, old, often outdated casings. Both regrooved and recapped tires are used on over-the-road rigs daily, and safely. Every tire made, is made with a compound that is released when the tire flexes (as in rolling). The biggest problem with RV tires, is they spend more time not rolling, than rolling, causing the tire to decay prematurely. Covering the bloody things from the sun is really in vain; it isn't the sun that does the damage (buses and trucks roll in the sun for millions of miles), it's "not rolling", that kills the tire. Why then, are we RV mileage type drivers so consumed with the casing date? If it's got decent threads, no plugs, and no signs of attempted repair due to road damage, what's the problem? | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 115 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.179.147.233 Rating: N/A |
Hey John MC9, your talking to a guy thats been owning and operating over the road for over 30 years. Trust me when I tell you I have tried recaps and about all they are good for is starting brushpiles on fire. I amnot saying you can't get some extra miles from a casing,I am saying are you so poor you will trust your life and the life of your family on junk tires so you can save a few bucks? Those tires are only allowed to be run on drive axles for a reason...Because they fail regularly! and if they are on your steer axle, chances are better than even that they will cause a wreck. For my two cents, I will spend the money and throw the junk out. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 740 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.230.99.41 Rating: N/A |
I don't like recaps either, but I've driven buses for a lot of miles on regrooved tires on the rears. And yeah, I really cared about the passengers; it's a priceless commodity. The point being: If tires can be used as regrooves (or recaps) regardless of the date stamp, why should the date bother the "seldom driver"? If the tire's been sitting on the shelf, I can see the point, but if it'd been rolling, doesn't have road damage, and thread remains, why buy new for the rears? BTW, I seriously doubt you've ever seen a regrooved tire spread out over the roadway, as you might see rethread casings. And even at that, most of the "alligators" we see, are actually new tire casings that have separated due to underinflation and overheating. The archive here is full of all this.. (Unless it went the way of the pictures..ehh, I@n?). I just feel that berating any individual for not using brand-smacking new tires on all wheels, is ludicrous. For the amount of time the rig is actually used, buying new is overkill. It's a big waste of cash that could be used for trips, instead of what sounds like an ego-boosting "I got the best" dialog. (absolutely -no- insult intended) Cheers (Message edited by john_mc9 on January 13, 2009) | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 632 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.29 Rating: N/A |
"Why then, are we RV mileage type drivers so consumed with the casing date? If it's got decent threads, no plugs, and no signs of attempted repair due to road damage, what's the problem?" The sidewalls ROT (Sunshine and Ozone) and can blowout when used enough to warm up. FF | ||
| GlennVin (Glennvin)
Registered Member Username: Glennvin Post Number: 40 Registered: 10-2002 Posted From: 98.18.113.95 Rating: N/A |
Well Fellas, Here's my $.02 worth (after adjusted for inflation of course). Our singing group has a MC-9, and I've been running re-grooved tires on the drive axle for about 3 years now. According to the date code, the casings are about 5 years old. I do like most everyone else; I run new tires on the steer, re-grooved on the drives and old steers on the tags. Last month I pulled the outside drive tires so I could take a look at the casings of the inside tires. All four were in good shape. I'm not a big fan of recaps, but would run one until I could get my hands on a re-groove. But, that's just me. Glenn Tallulah Falls, GA www.tlmmusic.com | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 121 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.49.113.122 Rating: N/A |
Damn (oops)... Darn, Glenn - That is some truly heart hurtin', boot stompin' and Bible thumpin' music. I love it... Madly, Truly, Deeply. But, Glenn, are you absolutely sure Jesus appoves? Just in case he does, I sent my email (for your newsletter). Hope we hook up somewhere... I'd love to jam with you guys. Nellie Wilson | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 116 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.179.147.233 Rating: N/A |
Yup, very nice Glen. I wish I was smart enough to be able to put someof our music on our web site. Good Job! | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 205 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
The problem with a recap on a bus is the cap cannot get out from under the bus if it fails and has been thrown into the passenger area and killed passengers. I have been told that happened @ Greyhound and they do not use recaps for that reason. A truck can lose a cap and there are no people involved as well as a large area for the cap to seperate from the truck or trailer and find a new home on the interstate. A tire deep in rubber will always have a softer ride than a worn tire. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 137 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 74.13.196.64 Rating: N/A |
When I got my bus the tires were shot. Lots of tread but lots of weather cracking too. Hated to get rid of them (with so much tread remaining) but was told they'd never withstand high temps at highway speed. Looked at recaps but was STRONGLY advised against it. Not for Larry's reasons (which never occurred to me) but because of the damage a thrown cap would cause to the bus. A trucker pal suggested I put the best I could afford on the steers (I settled on Michelin R12s) and find some takeoffs (even R11s) for the drives. It took awhile, but found a set of 380/80s for $600, installation included. Not new, for sure, but only 18 months old and about 60% tread left. I figure it'll take awhile to wear them out and I paid less than half of what new ones cost. And I'd probably end up wasting new ones anyway, since they'd age faster than I could burn them up. (Gotta figure a way to put more mileage on those pricey steers) FWIW. Nellie Wilson | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1462 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.71.102.247 Rating: N/A |
It would be surprising news to me that Greyhound has stopped using re-manufactured tires. Believe what you will, don't you think re-manufactured tires would have been outlawed if it could be proven they are a menace? Or, more probably, sued out of existence? Tire inflation. Bottom line. No matter the tire brand, kind, or creed, is what puts almost all that rubber out on the road. For the last word on tire safety, I'd encourage spending money on tire pressure monitors, buy whatever tires you like. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 141 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.52.105.232 Rating: N/A |
BW, I know some of the newer cars have tire pressure monitors but didn't know you could install them on our older machines. Where do you find them and are they hard to install? [BTW, thanks for the photo and suggestions on the 'No Air Pressure' thread. I'll come back on that.] Seeking opinions: When they mounted my 'new' tires they inflated to 100 psi all the way around. But that differs from my MCI guide which advises - as I recall - 85 psi in the rear duals. I deflated accordingly but am wondering if this was wise? The ride is a little better but am I better off with higher pressure? What pressures do you guys run? Nellie Wilson | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1464 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.121.150 Rating: N/A |
Yes, there are pressure monitors for the heavies, age of the equipment doesn't matter. One of the busnuts is a distributor for one of the brands...who is it? Jim Sheppard? Daytona Pete? You need to know the weight bearing down on the axle, and the tire pressure is set according to its manufacturer's table. The local scale house is an easy place to get some measurements. Go in when they are closed, the scales are usually left on, so look at the signboard, or peek in the window at the older ones without the outside signboard. MCI's recommendation is a good place to start. Depending on your conversion, your weight may not go where MCI had to put it thinking of passengers and baggage. You want the tire to be sitting properly on the road. Similar to a car tire, over and under inflate leaves the tread contact patch not sitting on the road the way it was intended, which affects steering and braking, particularly under low traction conditions. Never mind tire life... And hard tires, as you have discovered, just beat the coach up and won't give you anything equivalent in return. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 91 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.27.17.210 Rating: N/A |
Jim Shepard is a dealer for Pressure Pro. I bought one from him 2 years ago and love it. He is coming to our place tomorrow for a while. Nellie i will have him email you some info on the system if you want. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 146 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.52.103.156 Rating: N/A |
Yes, Ed, that would be much appreciated. Very kind of you to offer. BTW, where's your place? I see by your profile that you're fulltiming, so I guess you're camped where it's warm? I'm envious... you can't imagine HOW envious. Nellie Wilson | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 92 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 174.145.3.212 Rating: N/A |
We rent a lot in the Foothills just East of Yuma during the winter. During the summers we are in an rv park 25 miles east of Seattle while i work. I consider myself 2/3 retired as i can get by on only working for 4 months. :>) It can get a little chilly here at times.....we do have to run the heaters a couple of times during the winter, overnite low so far was 37. This week tho we have been having hi temps around 80 and lows in the 50s.....just right!!!! | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 153 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.49.113.186 Rating: N/A |
Well, that sounds like pretty tough duty. Wanna trade... you know, just for awhile? How's Yuma for night life? Any place I could maybe crank out some songs? Nellie | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 93 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.7.21.172 Rating: N/A |
Ummmmm.....no. I don't do snow and try not to do cold anymore. I have a picture of the bus just after we got it and it has snow on it.I promised the old girl that i would never let that happen again. :>) If its less than 65 degrees i am chilly. Yuma has some nite life but we don't do it, prefer to be home after dark. There are people that come here and put on shows at some of the different rv parks, casinos, and veterans clubs so i am sure you could find some places to play and make a few bucks. There are also people that have jam sessions on their lots every now and then. Almost forgot, people also play at the Market Place which is a vendor/swapmeet sort or place. | ||
| Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Registered Member Username: Rv_safetyman Post Number: 274 Registered: 1-2004 Posted From: 67.142.130.26 Rating: N/A |
Ewen and Ed, thank for the mention! I have been having fun at the Quartzsite Eagle/GMC/Flxible rally and got a bit behind on some of the posts. We are at Ed and Stevi's and ready to relax a bit. Nellie, I will send you a private message. Jim Shepherd Evergreen CO '85 Eagle 10 Series 60 engine with Eaton 10 speed AutoShift. Project pages at: http://www.rvsafetysystems.com/busproject.htm |