| Author | Message | ||
| mark (Coolbus)
Registered Member Username: Coolbus Post Number: 66 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 71.54.194.136 Rating: N/A |
I am trying to help a freind move a GM fishbowl transit bus that has been sitting for several years. The engine fired up pretty easy; after airing up it would go right into reverse, but not forward. This bus has an auto tranny, has a 'toggle' switch for forward and reverse to the left of the steering wheel on the dash. Can you think of any reason that the bus will not move forward? Thanks for the help. Mark 'coolbus' | ||
| Paso One (Paso_1)
Registered Member Username: Paso_1 Post Number: 122 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.165.246.239  Rating: N/A |
The wires on the solinoid are famous for coming loose. Open the right side rear service door and look at the solinoid. The easiest is to look at linkage when you put it into reverse and then reach in and manually move it the opposite direction for forward. ( two person job is the safest. I assume it Must have the VS 2 tranny What year ??? | ||
| mark (Coolbus)
Registered Member Username: Coolbus Post Number: 67 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 71.54.194.136 Rating: N/A |
Thanks, I'll try to check on that tomorrow. Not sure which tranny, I only just got a little involved in trying to help out with the move. I don't even know the year... thanks for the suggestions(s) Mark | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1449 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.121.244  Rating: N/A |
The toggle switch just makes a solenoid act on the shift lever on the tranny body, peer into the side engine access panel on the curb side and see if it moves. If reverse wants to work so willingly, I'll bet it will go into forward gear with some manual assistance. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| JamesB (56gmbusman)
Registered Member Username: 56gmbusman Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2008 Posted From: 96.39.174.3 Rating: |
I would just pull the pin on the shift lever and move it to reverse position, start the engine and see what happens. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 682 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
"I would...move it to reverse position, start the engine and see what happens." What if what happens is THE BUS BACKS OVER SOMEONE OR SOMETHING??? This IS a bus that came with a lever handbrake, and has been sitting for years. Pulling the pin would prevent the driver from putting it into neutral if it started to move. "Start it up in reverse" does mean NO AIR also! IMNSHO, not good advice! G | ||
| JamesB (56gmbusman)
Registered Member Username: 56gmbusman Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2008 Posted From: 96.39.174.3 Rating: N/A |
nobody ever said anything about a hand brake, Usually anything with a toggle would have dd3's anyways. Then just chock the wheels or run the motor to build air, shut it off, shift it then start it from the front. | ||
| JamesB (56gmbusman)
Registered Member Username: 56gmbusman Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2008 Posted From: 96.39.174.3 Rating: N/A |
Besides George, I was not asking your opinion nor giving him step by step instructions on what to do. I'm sure he is smart enough to figure it out. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 120 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.52.106.191  Rating: |
How come everyone's getting so cranky lately? Have you noticed? Could it be the weather? Could it be everyone is just longing to DRIVE their bus to fairer climbs instead of sitting around in the snow and looking at pictures of their rig? Bet if everybody were chatting on some beach in the Keys we wouldn't hear a snarly word. Just my observation. Nellie Wilson | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 637 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.30 Rating: N/A |
All are simply waiting for the corOnation of our media selected Messia. FF | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 124 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 74.13.196.43 Rating: N/A |
Amen, FF. Nellie | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 422 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.209.62.175 Rating: N/A |
 ....thought I might be the only one with those sentiments....Comfort in numbers...well, three of us at least! Wonder if they'll be holding a million bus rally in DC?... RCB | ||
| John Lacey (Junkman42)
Registered Member Username: Junkman42 Post Number: 64 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 66.82.9.60  Rating: N/A |
You guys now count four! And girls,John | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 683 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
JamesB, Your original post says: "I would just pull the pin, move the shift linkage to the reverse position, start the engine and see what happens." The post will stay there until it goes into the archives. It is obviously FOUR STEPS! Something else to consider: If the original poster knew exactly what was wrong, or how to diagnose his problem, and repair it, he wouldn't be posting here. This is also known as Catch 22. As explained to me by a GM owner, DD3 brakes were first offered as an option on the 4106 Hiway coaches in 1962, and many operators didn't take the option for several years. This means that there is probably a 50% chance that the fishbowl in question has a lever-operated handbrake instead of DD3s. Driveline parking brakes are subject to failure from leaking transmission seals. Please also note the part of the original post: "...has been sitting for several years." In your second post, you say "run the engine to build air, or block the wheels, ... and start it from the front." That's what you should have said in your FIRST post! Then, please read the comments just posted about a Nut's inability to shut off the engine with no air pressure, keeping in mind that Fishbowls and MC5s have the same stop systems. I have had the personal experience of starting a DD3 equipped bus which had been changed to a 740 automatic, with an air/electric shifter. Unfortunately the PO didn't wire in the neutral safety switch, AND the slack adjusters hadn't been adjusted for years. The bus had been backed in, so it wanted to go backwards as soon as I applied a little throttle to pump air. Here I am with an air-operated shifter, and no air. An air operated engine shutdown, (8V92MUI) still no air, not equipped with a flapper, and the guy I'm helping is in the bathroom in the house! The only good thing about this was that 20 psi and no throttle stopped the bus before I hit the back wall, and I just had to wait with my foot on the brake until the owner came out and pushed the stop lever. RJ, a comment on parking brake availability? "Yeah, I didn't think of that," would have been a whole lot better! G | ||
| mark (Coolbus)
Registered Member Username: Coolbus Post Number: 69 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 71.54.194.136 Rating: N/A |
Sheesh, JamesB (56gmbusman), well I WAS asking for the most excellent opinions from the GURUs like George Todd, Bus Warrior, and Paso One. >>>"Besides George, I was not asking your opinion nor giving him step by step instructions on what to do."<<< This is not your 'thread'. George was offering an opinion(s) in response to my question. Lighten up, man. Chill! George was not attacking you, your response was uncalled for. Thanks to the folks who responded in a very professional, helpful way! Mark | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 423 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.208.244.186 Rating: N/A |
Chihuahua....full moon was a few days ago. ..."threads" are, far as I know, public domain.......till the bossnut decides differently.  For the most part, we're not professional bus folks....just experienced in this "hobby" ...and most often try to be helpful in the information we dispense. (then again there's RJL, BW, Luke and others who are the "pros" ... we've such a lot to learn). The fun will be over next Tuesday folks; meantime, as someone said "lighten up. Chill!" Thanx, Ian for a great forum!! RCB | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1484 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.181.166.160  Rating: N/A |
JamesB - FYI, the transit property that I worked for has a completely restored 61 Fishbowl that has an electric toggle switch shift mechanism on it, but does NOT have DD3 brakes - just a plain old "Johnson bar" lever handbrake. George - I'm not as familiar with Fishbowl parking brake systems as I am with GM's highway models. I also am not sure when GM made DD3's standard equipment, as opposed to optional. Obviously, we have no way of knowing what Mark's friend's fish has, until he let's us know after looking at it. FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 685 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Mark, Thanks for the thanks! I just don't want to see someone get hurt. On a humorous note, if the last year has been fun, I've stopped before I got all I wanted, because I've had all I can stand! I wonder what Ian is going to do with a gunny sack full of fur, a cat and a dog? KUTGW! George | ||
| Paso One (Paso_1)
Registered Member Username: Paso_1 Post Number: 123 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.165.246.239 Rating: N/A |
Okay Now that the dust has settled. I assumed the "fish bowl " in question had the VS2 transmission as the early VH transmissions used a cable to the transmission. The later "fishbowls" had the V730 which also had the cable control up to at least 1977. The Canadian built Fishbowls did differ from the American built on when some of the changes did occur. The Bennet-Stone Air shifter could have been put on any of the automatics (Message edited by paso_1 on January 15, 2009) | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 140 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 74.13.196.64 Rating: N/A |
Hey, George MC6 - At risk of becoming a fur ball in this gunny sack, can you (at your leisure) enlighten me (us) on the merits of the MC6. A fellow BusNut (John) extols it's virtues, reckons it's the greatest thing since credit (or sliced braad, at least). John says it was originally designed to haul mail (and passengers) up and down the West Coast (though John didn't specify, I'm thinking the PCH) and has whistles and bells the rest of us don't even dream about. As I said, at your leisure. Thanks, Nellie Wilson | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 90 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.7.32.106 Rating: N/A |
The 6 has the biggest bays of any of the older buses. They only made 102 of them as they were the first buses to be 102" wide. They only ran in Ca. for a little while and then most were sold to Canada as they were not legal to run in the rest of the US due to their width. They also had 12V71 engines. First year down here in Yuma one of our neighbors had one. He had changed the 12V to an 8V92 and had no loss of power as the 8V weighed a lot less. There was enough room around the engine that you could crawl in there to work on it......unlike a 5 where you can barely stick your head in there. :>) | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 687 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 207.231.75.253 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, Here's your leisurely enlightenment! The 100 MC6s were made at the start of the "Next Bus Out" parcel shipping program, so they were made with much larger baggage bays. The MAK description of them was apparently made by someone who never saw one. Its way off. They are indeed 40 X 102, and over 11 feet high. I think the baggage bay space is 425 cubic feet. They were all built with 12V71 engines, and 8844 four speed stick transmissions. The combination of a heavy bus and a strong engine caused a lot of transmission/driveline breakage, so in 1973, Greyhound changed 72 of them to an 8V71 with a 740 Allison. (The shorter engine was necessary to gain room for the longer transmission.) Power was lacking, so they turboed the 8V71s raising the horsepower to "350." The 18 remaining V12s were left to run in the Canadian Rockies. (92 Series hadn't been made yet. An 8V92T has the same power as a 12V71, weighs about a thousand pounds less, and gets better mileage.) OK, GOOD POINTS: All stainless steel or aluminum, no mild steel in the body, NO rust. Huge baggage bays. Different cooling system than other MCIs, as mentioned above, radiator on hinges and flex couplings, swings out easily, so EASY access to both sides of engine. NO drop box. Factory tilt steering wheel. 200 gallon fuel tank. Running gear is all standard truck/bus. 475 HP cooling system. Hydraulic driven propeller type radiator fan. Big A/C. JUST PLAIN POINTS: The aisle is flat, front to back. The floor under the seats slopes up toward the rear, for the first five rows, giving the pax a little better view over the person in front. At the sixth row, the seat floor is level about a foot above the aisle, all the way to the rear. Seven feet of headroom in the aisle, 6 above the seat floors, so you need to flatten the floor. (Not unique to a 6.) ONE large Micro V air-tensioned belt that drives the Spicer auxiliary drive unit. The rear bumper is the belt guard! NOT SO GOOD POINTS: Came with 13.5 X 24.5 bias ply tires on steer and drive, no longer available, standard 12.5 X 22.5 on tags. New wheels can be easily ordered in either 22.5 or 11 X 24.5. Different stainless body pattern than other MCIs, not available. Air operated door and driver's window, not good for an RV, easy to convert to manual latch. In my OPINION, if you want a quick and easy cheap 102 X 40, with an already flat floor, and an automatic, buy a 102A3. If you want a brick loo, and not one of the multitude, buy the 6. I would. (Again) HTH, George, Ser. #7827, Dog #337, then 7337. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 143 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 74.13.197.138 Rating: N/A |
Wow! Now that's some real in-depth reporting. Sounds like too much bus for me but I'll look at this one (the one on the board) anyway... just for the education if nothing else. Thanks, George. Nellie Wilson |
