| Author | Message | ||
| Johnny (63.159.184.45)
Rating: |
From another site: "Rebuild 8v71 (w/new heads, pistons & liners, bearings) 10,841.99" GAAK! Almost $11K for a rebuild?! Even with all the goodies, my 460 ran under 4 grand. (still grand enough for me.....) Of course, not stopping when the gauge hit 260 wasn't too bright. | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Wow, that is a LOT of $money$ to rebuild just a 8V71. Wonder if that wasn't "retail plus 50%"? Good used 318's are just lying around begging (beg, beg!) for around $2500 to $5000 depending upon the condition. Of course, having said that, way back in 1978 the fire shops (city goverment) spent over ten grand for a new Cummins fire engine engine. I do wish I could spend that kind of money on a rebuild--that would imply that I had some money? He he. | ||
| Johnny (67.242.221.15)
Rating: N/A |
That was an "in-frame"--I assume the shop did ALL labor; my 460 was with me doing part of the labor. Still, $11K.........ouch. I thought my soidium-filled valves & forged pistons were expensive. Wait a minute, they were. $10K for a NEW Cummins heavy-truck engine sounds about right. | ||
| Bill K. (209.173.120.62) Rating: N/A |
I sold a good 8v71 with 70,000 mile for a grand and it is in a bus and the last time I heard running great. | ||
| Ross Carlisle (Ross) (216.107.197.88)
Rating: N/A |
Most shops around here are at 4 - 5K for a in frame rebuild. I suppose if you replace absolutely everything with brand new and have it done by one of those "high end" shops, it could run about 11 grand. I think if you did some research, you'd find that 10K+ rebuilds are not the norm. Ross | ||
| Dwight (67.213.8.79) Rating: N/A |
I have seen parts for a rebuild for about $1300.00, you have to shop around unless you only trust a high end shop or detroit to do the job.. | ||
| Don KS/TX (63.15.244.163)
Rating: N/A |
"Normal" rebuild parts are not too expensive. Labor to do it right, and all the other worn things is where it adds up. Suppose your crank is not reuseable, and you need a new blower too. A quality shop will not just bolt in new cylinders for a cheap price, they will want to do it to DD specs and stand behind it. | ||
| Johnny (63.159.192.72)
Rating: N/A |
The guy needed new heads. But still, $11,000.......... | ||
| degojo (198.81.16.53) Rating: N/A |
sounds like stewart & stevenson to me??? | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Yea, it was 1978 and it was a (I think) small cam 400 855 Cummins complete and yea, it was $10,000 sitting in the pallet. The fire apparatus shop mechanics were appaled. They wanted to swap in a 8V71 instead of the Cummins which would have been easier. But...they were over ruled by higher authority. Soosss, the Crown Pumper got the Cummins and was still slower than the other American LaFrance Engines with Detroits. But all of this was long ago and far away. Seems even today with a bit of creative shopping, it can be done $cheaper$ Thanks. | ||
| Dwight (67.213.8.152) Rating: N/A |
had 2 heads rebuilt and one was replaced because it was cracked $1200.00 total (all new valves) and $1300.00 for overhaul kit say $100.00 for cams, $300.00 for crank, $300.00 for blower..total $3200.00..I maybe missing something here but the rest is labor from a big shop....if you are willing to get your hands dirty then you can save some money "Turn Key" is always more expensive!!!! all I am saying is you can spend $11000.00 or also shop a little, do a little and save some money.... | ||
| Bradd B. Smith (Bbsrtbusproject) (208.26.165.48)
Rating: N/A |
If that engine will outlast a gasser by 5 times, and it should, it would in the long run be a bargain. 11,000 is way high for just a rebuild however, I agree. I think that most coach systems will be more expensive to rebuild, but they give, with proper maintenance of course, much longer service life. I bought mine for the look and the ride and the possibility of getting more than a half a million miles out of her. I know Johnny does not like the ride, so he went his way. Not right or wrong, just different. Bradd | ||
| Daris Bouthillier (209.67.181.133)
Rating: N/A |
I cooked the 8v71 in my 4106 on vacation two years ago. Mine was pretty extreme. I didn't have the foggiest idea what I was doing, and over heated it really bad. Called all over southern Utah and northern Arizona. Finally found a shop in St. George, UT that would work on it. A complete in-frame with new heads (rebuilt heads plus the core charge were more than new heads outright), came to $10k. That also included a new set of injectors. | ||
| Johnny (63.159.129.47)
Rating: N/A |
5 times? You mean a rebuilt 8V71 will go 1,250,000+ miles? | ||
| Jim Wilke (205.188.199.182) Rating: N/A |
Johnny, the 6-71 in my '59 4104 has near to 2 million miles on it. Jim-Bob | ||
| Bradd B. Smith (Bbsrtbusproject) (208.26.165.233)
Rating: N/A |
Will a rebuilt 460 pushing a bus or anything else, go 250,000 miles? I am a Ford man and am particularly fond of the 460. In my experience with them in light trucks, 100,000+ is real good for them. Then they get tired again and need to be rebuilt. Maybe not the whole route you had to go this time, but still out and rebuilt. Multiply 4000.00 + pull labor or whatever the rebuild cost, x 5 rebuilds, even if you get 125,000 out of it, and you are still just at 500,000 and needing another rebuild. Jim-Bob's experience is not that uncommon with proper P.M. Of course as it has been pointed out before, most won't run that many miles. Best of luck to you with that great Ford mill, and your conversion. Bradd | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (64.114.233.135)
Rating: N/A |
Johnny, if you figure that you ought to be able to put 10,000 gallons of fuel through your 460 before rebuilding it, that would give you a good mileage budget. The DD 8V71 should be good for over 25,000 gallons and a small Cat or Cummins in RV service ought to be good for 50,000 gallons. Compare that to 200,000 gallons in a 14 liter heavy duty truck engine. A lot depends on care and cleanliness of the fuel and lube oil. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 | ||
| Johnny (63.159.188.135)
Rating: N/A |
The untouched 345 in my friend's 1980 IH S1700 truck has 340,000+ on it. He also has a 1975 GMC C-50 with a 366 4bbl with >200,000 miles. They certainly won't get you there fast, but they'll get you there....... Lugging a 1992 F-350 wrecker, the 460 at work has 290,000 miles, mostly city, with lots of idling & no-load 1800-2000RPM running. We also have a 1987 GMC with the original 454 replaced (due to no oil pressure) at 310,000 miles. Again, mostly city, lots of idling. My original 370 had 200,000 VERY abused miles (also, mostly stop-and-go, being a school bus). Had it been cared for, 250-300K is possible. If Tom's math is right, 60K is the limit for my 460 (figuring 6MPG). No chance. If I get less than 200,000 out of it, I start tearing things down to find out what failed & why. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (64.114.233.220)
Rating: N/A |
Johnny, I think that I said it would be good as a budget. I realize that since the computers came on the scene, the lives of these engines has improved. I suppose that I started on the low end, but there have been a lot of gas motorhome engines bad at 70,000 to 80,000 miles. I don't know if they were mostly carbureted or neglected, but that's why you set up a budget. If you keep things clean, and don't abuse the engine, you should do better. How much better will depend on the amount of fine silica getting past filters and the amount of pinging the engine does pulling long grades. But I agree, 60,000 miles sounds too low. Perhaps double that might be more realistic in today's engines. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 | ||
| Johnny (63.159.197.93)
Rating: N/A |
Pinging? None. Motorhomes? Well, my friend's 1977 Dodge Coachman 24' Class C's 318 is going strong (well, OK, it's going RELIABLY; 318 & strong don't belong together in a 6-ton RV) at 165,000 miles. It has no power, but it never did. | ||
| FAST FRED (65.59.77.59) Rating: N/A |
Yes but your 318 is probably not the car engine , I'd guess its the 318C that is really a 440 with sleves. These had sodium cooled valves and all the usual good stuff in a real truck engine. Had one in a 68 Shasta , and it was wimpy but great. Biggest hassle is that the HEAD warps , not just the exhaust manifold , so its very hard to go quietly as there was always a tiny exhaust leak. I milled the exhaust manifold , but was too happy with how she ran to tinker with the head. And it had a "Ball" carb! Great starter RV, we went 2X coast to coast ,up the west coast on RT 1, and a tour thru Canada arround the big lakes. FAST FRED | ||
| Johnny (63.159.189.61)
Rating: N/A |
This is the 318-3--basic 318 block, same heads (with stainless valves & hardened seats), governed at ~3500, steel crank (same forging as a 340), forged pistons, & steel rods. Exhaust doesn't leak, manifolds have never been off. It's been tweaked with 2" dual exhaust with turbo mufflers, a recurved distributor (stock timing was 2 degrees AFTER TDC!), K&N filter, oil cooler, & a remote filter setup with a GM MDT filter. We run 15W-40 Rotella oil in this heavily-loaded, hi-revving (4.56 gears) engine. It's still not enough.  The replacement RV, however, has PLENTY of grunt: 1972 RevCon FWD with a 455 Olds.  Even loaded to ~13,500lbs GCW (stuff & toad), it had no trouble with New Hampshire mountains. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A |
"The replacement RV, however, has PLENTY of grunt: 1972 RevCon FWD with a 455 Olds. Even loaded to ~13,500lbs GCW (stuff & toad), it had no trouble with New Hampshire mountains." New Hampshire mountains???? You mean those things we folk out west call speed bumps? ROFLMAO. . . 8^) RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| FAST FRED (63.215.230.97) Rating: N/A |
The Eastern "speed bumps" are still about 6% grades , its just there only a few miles long. The 455 Olds was GM's choice as their ONLY heavy duty engine when they built the MH series , so should work pretty well. There ARE heavy duty 3 bearing front ends avilable for folks that bring there cement art colection, and better pumpkin ratios for those that tow a Hum Vee. But mostly I never hear of GM MH folks swoping for anything bit a rebuilt. FAST FRED | ||
| Scott Whitney (66.82.9.23) Rating: N/A |
I came up Tehachapi on Saturday and Baker grade yesterday. Now them there are some loooooong grades. . . Good thing for the truck lanes. This old girl sure is slow at near GVRW. But I am passing some OTR trucks on the flats now. Running better than ever! Scott 1974 Flxible transit (coach??) | ||
| Johnny (63.159.196.171)
Rating: N/A |
The 455 runs strong, even loaded to almost 7 tons & with a tall final-drive ratio. We were sailing past other motorhomes (including pushers with Cummins diesels & Vortec 454 Chevys) without even trying--it pulled all but the steepest grades in 3rd gear at 60-65 with the A/C going. My biggest concern was cooking the TH-425 transaxle! That wasn't their only HD engine--a 454 or 427 Chevy would work, but the RevCons are on Olds Toronado running gear, so the 455 was a natural. If it dies, a 500 Cadillac is a bolt-in. We were towing a 1980 VW Rabbit pickup (<2500lbs), but could've towed more with no trouble. Probably the wierdest thing is that the RevCon FWD's have single rear wheels, in an oddball size. | ||
| FAST FRED (65.59.75.147) Rating: N/A |
Johnny , All the engines you list were on GM's shelf. They CHOSE the 455 as the strongest most durable of the bunch. GM should Know. FAST FRED | ||
| Johnny (63.159.184.66)
Rating: N/A |
I've yet to see an Olds in a truck rated for 30,000lbs+ GVWR. I've seen 427's & 454's there. The main reason was probably that the Olds transaxle fit the Olds the easiest. | ||
| FAST FRED (63.215.231.180) Rating: N/A |
All the BOP , Buick Olds Pontiac (and Caddy ) use the same bellhousings . But you could be right GM was too lazy to re cast the 425 tranny with a chebby mount. Or too lazy to make a Chebby with a BOP belhousing. After all that was in the dark old days when GM thought they had to sell a million of any thing to get a buck. Japs had to show them how to Ca$h in on limited production. FAST FRED | ||
| Johnny (63.159.125.74)
Rating: N/A |
I know. Also, some trannies (like my TH-200-4R) have both bolt patterns. | ||
| adame (129.82.229.195) Rating: N/A |
I used to pull a 24' covered trailer with a '72 GMC motorhome that used a 455 Olds Toranado running gear. No complaints about power or durability but 4.5 miles/gallon was a pain. Brakes on that rig were a not so funny joke as well, even without the trailer. I remember a couple of times driving through intersections with both feet standing on the brake pedal. The rear suspension was a cool concept but when the bushings on those single sided swing arms wore, the thing had 6 wheel steering but you could only control the front 2. Engine was good though. | ||
| Adame (129.82.229.195) Rating: N/A |
And another thing! Compared to that rig my 1948 Flx Clipper is easier to drive, is more comfortable and my nuckels don't have to be pried from the wheel at the end of the day. | ||
| Johnny (63.159.186.29)
Rating: N/A |
SIX-wheel?! That'd be a nice trick here--it only has 4. It has power 4-wheel discs (rears same as an Eldorado), which haul it down easily, even with an unbraked toad. We got 7-8MPG through New Hampshire, running 70-75MPH with the A/C cranked (95+ degrees) & a full fresh water tank, towing a VW Rabbit pickup. It rides like a luxury car, & is the easiest vehicle to drive I've ever seen. I would gladly drive this to LA. My biggest gripe is the small gas tank--only about 22 gallons. |
