| Author | Message | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1469 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.132.217  Rating: N/A |
An off shoot from Nellie's thread "No Air Pressure", the use of the emergency stop and having to stop the engine when there is no air pressure to activate the normal engine stopping controls.... with many thanks to the Skiba's for the pictures of a green engine! Reposting from that thread:  This is looking in from the rear in an MC8, at the top of the air intake leading from the air cleaner to the top of the blower. The red arrow points to the little handle on the emergency stop device. The handle needs to be pushed down, such that the clip arrangement over at the green arrow engages to hold the flap that is inside the cover stays open. Sometimes, the clip arrangement, which is attached to the electric solenoid that pulls the clip to trip the flap, needs some help by your finger to go into place. This device is intended to let an observant operator try to stop an engine that is running away uncontrollably, due to some failure of the fuel delivery system. It does this by choking off sufficient intake air that the engine either stops or barely chugs along. The purpose being to prevent the engine from running at such uncontrolled high RPM that it damages itself. These failures are due to poor maintenance of that system, re-using parts that should have been discarded, or ignoring the signs of a failing system - sticking, or otherwise uncontrollable moments of engine fueling. A view of the solenoid that is lurking behind the elbow of the air intake:  The red arrow is pointing at the solenoid, note the fresh wire attached to it...preventive maintenance! The green arrow is pointing at the lever and clip that holds the shut-down flap in the open position, between the two views, you can see how it looks...(hard to use pics taken for other reasons!) The solenoid pulls on the levered clip, releasing the round rod, which has a flap connected to it inside the intake, and is spring powered to close. When it rotates, the flap cuts off the engine's air supply. Here is the fuel shut off arm:  In this shot, the fuel appears to be turned on, plunger retracted. The green arrow is pointing to the air powered plunger that normally shuts the engine off. Without air pressure, or if it is stuck due to little use, either in the on or off position, you may move the arm, which the red arrow points to, with your finger. Take care that you do not put your finger in the way of the plunger! If the plunger moves with your finger in there, it will crush. This is something that should be practiced! With the engine off, turn on the master switch, such that the plunger retracts, and pull on the arm with your finger to see what effort it takes. Take note of the belts, work on your strategy to stay disentangles, loose clothing, hair etc MUST be controlled. Start the engine, and shut it down with your new found skills. You will have to hold the arm until the engine spins down, otherwise, it may pick back up with the return of fuel. happy coaching! buswarrior (Message edited by buswarrior on January 19, 2009) | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 86 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 206.45.93.160  Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the info once again. Being a newbie and learning what ever I can, these posts really help. It all makes sense but with out these posts one doesn't think of it. Would shutting the shut off valve down by the filters be just as effective, or would the motor continue to race for a few minutes until it burns the fuel the lines? When shutting the valve down by the filters cause a hard start due to the lines being empty between the filter and motor after that? | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph_peters)
Registered Member Username: Ralph_peters Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2008 Posted From: 206.251.1.216 Rating: N/A |
BW super shots they need arcived,I tried to explain to several, most need to get a feel by turning the fuel shut off without the engine running, doing it will not harm a thing. Make sure if you deside to shut running engine down, NO long sleeves IF belt slaps clothing or long hair bad things can happen. Most hair challanged persons need not worry, but those with long hair running belts enjoy. Oh I would not turn off fuel supply valve, cause supply line to pump may collapse,an make for very hard restart. | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 256 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62  Rating: N/A |
BW would you like me to take photo's of the 6-71 arrangement as a comparison? | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 87 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 206.45.93.160 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Ralph, another point I wouldn't have thought of | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 159 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 74.13.197.93  Rating: N/A |
BW, those photos are most helpful and much appreciated. Ralph P. instructed me similarly, but haveing a 'visual' sure helps. I'm so jazzed I'm heading out to my bus to see if I can identify these gizmos in my own engine compartment... cold weather or not (hey, it seems to be warming, doesn't it?) Thanks to you both. Nellie Wilson PS. Hey Ralph, with any luck might see you before you head over to Connecticut. PPS. BW, how do you guys upload these photos? Do you have to adhere to limited size requirements (as on our profile pics?) | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 926 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.57.203.15 Rating: N/A |
One other tip: When manually shutting off the engine, DO NOT allow your finger/thumb to be between the engine stop lever and the engine stop piston. If the piston should happen to come out, you will not be able to remove your finger/thumb and you will be experiencing extreme pain. Jack | ||
| Ednj (Ednj)
Registered Member Username: Ednj Post Number: 234 Registered: 3-2003 Posted From: 68.197.95.38  Rating: N/A |
BW, Great job with the picture's. I sent you 2 more, to resize and post. Thanks Ed Skiba | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1471 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.66.16.72 Rating: N/A |
Yes, please, Tim. Let's get the different configurations all together on this thread, and then I'll condense it into an "article of interest" If anyone else has some different configurations, fire me the full size original shots to my e-mail so that the best clarity can be maintained in the final product. The picture size limit for posting is around 50kb, click on the "upload attachment" and browse your computer for your prepared picture. I like to use the "desktop" as a place to save the temporary versions of my picture editing efforts, and then once I have a good end product, save that back to my picture files. Thank goodness for the ability to rename stuff, as the version numbers do climb.... Be sure to copy your work to a word processor program before attempting to post, so if the post gets denied or you have some "accident" it is simple to recreate your efforts. I'm no computer genius, I used the simple "Paint" program from the windows accessories to draw the coloured arrows, and my recently acquired Microsoft Office Picture Manager's edit picture size function. There are free programs out there for re-sizing photos which give the user more control, but this seems to be working well enough. Having your post secondary attending off-spring purchase the Office Suite at the school bookstore will save you many dollars.... happy coaching! buswarrior (Message edited by buswarrior on January 20, 2009) | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 162 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 74.13.197.93 Rating: N/A |
Hi BW- I took some shots of my configuration, which appears different from the pics you posted. But a typical size is around 250 kb... is that okay? And what email address... is the one on your profile page current? Nellie Wilson | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 163 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 74.13.197.93 Rating: N/A |
Well, my gosh - The temp came up to a balmy 20 F - as in PLUS 20 F - and I re-set my boo-boo (tripping the emergency shutoff). The old gal cranked a couple times and Vroom! But, as BW pointed out, starting wasn't my only concern... airing up was the big worry. But she did, sweet as pecan pie. So I let her run through about 10 cycles, purging and - to move more air through the system - feathering the service brakes (a tip fom you guys). I made sure the compressor was loading again before I shut her down (another tip from the board). Today I'm going to find some of that air-line anti-freeze (or alcohol) and try to figure out how to inject that into the schraeder valve thingy. Or is that a good idea? JW (Chessie) cautioned me that Bendix no longer recommends this procedure. And since most of what I try does more harm than good, i'd love some feedback (before I screw up again). I'm not out of the woods yet, but things seem much improved. I ran into some other problems but they're outside the scope of this thread... so I'll just start a new one. But for now, thanks to everyone for all the great info! Nellie wilson | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 91 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 206.45.93.160 Rating: N/A |
I just want to see some shots of your configuration! | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 176 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 70.49.112.80 Rating: N/A |
Okay, Grant. Being a gal that aims to please, here's one taken before I turned dumb (it happened overnight) and went blonde (I suspect aliens). It doesn't reveal much 'figuration' but figured it might pass Ian's eagle-eyed censors?  Drops on My Guitar (post shower drops, that is ) Sorry Grant, just couldn't resist... that was too fat a pitch not to take a swing. Nice boots, eh? Nellie Wilsom | ||
| Keith Wood (Ft6)
Registered Member Username: Ft6 Post Number: 76 Registered: 8-2008 Posted From: 75.209.141.206 Rating: N/A |
"These failures are due to poor maintenance of that system, re-using parts that should have been discarded, or ignoring the signs of a failing system - sticking, or otherwise uncontrollable moments of engine fueling. " They can also be due to running over road debris that damages air pressure (if you get a Low Air warning, after you pull over and stop, SHUT DOWN the engine while you still can), or by sucking gasoline fumes into the air intake (happens now and then at Diesel/gas stations, especially when someone leaves the engine idling while others are gassing up). The Emergency Stop system needs to be tested now and then, but should not be used as the routine shutdown method. You should also know how the normal shutdown works, so that you can manually operate it. |