| Author | Message | ||
| R C Bishop (128.123.88.49)
Rating: N/A |
FF.....or anyone. Wondering what limitations (problems) I will incur with a bilge pump removing shower water. The line is about three feet long, at floor level, up about 18 inches and into the w/d drain. A total run of less than 6 feet from the pump which is an 800gph automatic switched unit with a 3/4 inch evacuation line. A couple of 90 degree bends. Every inch is above the level of the pump. Thanx......and welcome back, Ian! Problems or not, it continues to be the BEST board on the net!  RCB | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Just some thoughts. Might want to engineer it sossss the pump is below the tub drain so it will have a goodly supply of priming water. Then maybe go to a little larger diameter suction/pressure hose, plus make the 90 degree bends gentle sweeps if possible. Plus another bell and whistle may be a dedicated check valve just past the drain before the pump sosss if the pump check valve fails..... Yous won't have water backing up into the shower pan. Also, finally maybe a separate manual timer sosss the suck pump will run a certain amount.... Of time, then shut it'self off. Plus, will the pump handle human hair and bits of left over soap and stuff like that? Sounds like your idea is very close to mine to handle the gray and black water on my Crown coversion. Lots of stuff needed. Good luck. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (64.114.233.231)
Rating: N/A |
RCB, those pumps are really pretty reliable. The thing most people mess up on is failure to get the right size fuse. To make your scheme work, check valves are unnecessary because the pumps are self priming. Hair can get around the shaft or in the switch, so you need to be set up where you can pull those parts out and clean them up without too much mess or fuss. Also, you are probably not going to want to have the backflow water from the pump shutting off standing in the shower all the time, so that means some sort of well for the water and pump to stand in that is below your drain. Lastly, this water will be able to freeze while the coach is parked if it gets cold enough, so some means of draining the well will be a help. If you get a regular bilge pump switch with the on, auto and off positions that has the light to control the power to the pump, I think you will be glad you did. It really simplifies the use of these pumps. Maybe you can rig up a combination drain and well with an easy to remove cover. Also, you will probably find that a pump with half that capacity is plenty big. FWIW Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 | ||
| Jim Wilke (64.12.96.235)
Rating: N/A |
I just don't understand why you can't install your shower drain just like in your house. The one in my bus drains down into a standard trap, then the pipe runs into the 110 gal combined grey/black water tank in the bay. My bus is a 4104 so it has short bays, only 28" high but there is plenty of drop for a 10' run. No problems with pumps, fuses or check valves. (BTW, if you HAVE to have a pump rig, the marine supply companies manufacture a little sump with pump, float switch, etc that you could just purchase.) Your pump wants to be below the shower so it self primes. Check valves ALWAYS fail sooner or later, eliminate them if possible. Jim-Bob | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.88.7)
Rating: N/A |
You fellows have it right on.....I have a well under the drain, and the pump is removable. Am going to use the three way switch as you suggested, Tom. I am only concerned about the amount of water that the pump doesn't get "over the hump", as it were, which means it will drain back into the well, I suppose. Doing this, of course, to keep all the tanks and piping, including drains, above the floor level. Fresh water under the bed...about 120 gallons or so. Gray and Black under the galley cabinets, about an equal amount of gallonage with the fresh water. As you know, Henry, we have only two bays in a Crown, except for the trunk which is huge, but for my purposes not available for water tanks. I have had a bunch of experience with cold weather boondocking (25 degrees below for days on end) and feel much more comfortable with all plumbing above floor level. My floor is 1.5 inch tongue and groove marine plywood and all the pipes, are at or above that, except the well. The drain is large, (4 x 6) is removable as is the pump. I am used to putting in plenty of RV antifreeze (and reclaiming it many times during a winter) so adding some to the shower well is not a problem. I run it thru the entire system and leave some in the tanks and w/h as well. Never had a problem (knock on wood). While not Alaska, Tom, we are talking 9450 ft. altitude in the central Colorado Mountains. I really appreciate the input and the time from all. RCB | ||
| FAST FRED (65.56.25.137) Rating: N/A |
The modern Guest tiny bilge pump can be dropped right into a std shower drain . Its still a bump in the shower floor and the discharge hose is GASP visable . But I know of no simpler system if the bays are not cluttered with tanks . The new pumps can run with no water , so there is no need for a float switch ect. Just switch it on as you enter the shower & off when you leave , DONE If you do as I did and drain the shower into the sink , a cup of antifreez will do the shower pump AND the J trap in the sink. A tiny 100gph ($15)will easily carry off any shower water with a 1/2 in hose. FAST FRED | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.88.34)
Rating: N/A |
Thanx Fred. I am using a Black Maxx. Paid more than $15, but it was a pretty good buy and fit the physical circumstances I have...a "slot" about 6 inches wide just below the floor between the rear sets of wheels. RCB | ||
| FAST FRED (63.208.87.33) Rating: N/A |
BE sure to spray it with some stle of foam on the outside to keep it from freezing in so so weather. FAST FRED | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
My goodness: 25 degrees BELOW zero? I can not even comprehend such cold since I am a former LA boy. Coldest I have ever been is a balmy +22 degrees F last winter in my Crown Coach. Lots of blankets. How do you do it? Thanks. | ||
| FAST FRED (63.215.225.78) Rating: N/A |
I have had the "pleasure" (well it was interesting) in living aboard my sail boat in NYC at 17 F below 0 for almost a week. Not great fun , but part of winter. Thats why we head South in Nov , to leave the COLD to the folks that love it. NOT ME ! FAST FRED | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.164.175.61)
Rating: N/A |
The engineering problem R.C. and I have in common is that Crown Super Coaches do not have the conventional bays beneath the floor. Mine is an ex/schoolie 40 foot 3 axle 10 wheeler. No real conventional bays because the chassis is a custom made main frame rail type with outriggers bonded /bolted/ welded to an aluminum body with the mill in the middle resting on its side. With the large radiator, engine, (mine is a big cam 855 Cummins) transmission, fuel tank, etc., the coach only has (usually) one or two trunks plus a rear big one across the back of the bus. Thus no place for "conventional" water and holding tankage. My solution is to have the water and holding tanks INSIDE the coach over the rear four wheel wells. R.C.'s solution may be very similiar to mine. Thus our need to have some way to suck water out of the sinks, shower, tub, pot and washer and transfer it to the appropriate tank. Don't even ask me how all of this holding tank stuff is going to be dumped. Still working on that and while the theory looks sound.....will let you know how it works out. To learn more about Crown Super Coaches in general, I suggest the following website that will get your started. www.crownbus.com CROWNS FOREVER!!! and thanks. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.88.19)
Rating: N/A |
Interesting remarks, Henry. I have planned 120 gallons+- of tanks on either side of the rear middle floor access (fresh water) and all the gray and black water forward of the driver side tandem. That puts the hot water heater, fridge and heater on the door side across from the counter area. Over the wheel wells are 3 closets and w/d (all four wheels) The shower is on the door side,in between the wheels the commode on the driver side in the same location as the shower. (electric stool pumping into the black tank, partially on one wheel well and then under the first large counter in the galley). A bilge pump will raise the water from the shower (across the floor; cut in to the floor along with the hot and cold water; it will dump into the w/d drain). The water lines run the length of the area between the washer/dryer (over the rear driver wheel) to the galley sink, located just behind the second window on the driver side. Drain runs from the washer/dryer to the sink and empties into a large tank under the counter. (tank about 7 feet long and 20 inches wide by 12 inches high.) The dump will be at the turbo cannister area, between the battery bay and the mill. Hot and cold water will also be available just forward of that area, thru the floor at the cross member, in the engine bay. Shore water will come in under the rear bench seat and along the side to where it crosses the floor to the heater. Propane will also come from rear bay along that wall to the stove. Thanx for your patience...sorry about the length RCB | ||
| FAST FRED (65.58.227.151) Rating: N/A |
Although I have only a moderate sized tank (55G)setup they work fine just sitting in the floor of the coach. There boxed with ply and have 1 1/2 angle to keep them from moving . Black One is built into the "wet" side where the sinks , and toilet work by gravity. The only pump is to lift from the shower to the bath sink. With a tank thats only 11in high there is room for std J traps and a garbage disposal . The FW tank is a mirror image in location and cap. The tank discharges with a Dupree valve ( worth the co$t) thru a 6X6 locking door cut into the coach.Dupree has fine hose too. Its a pain to hookup the waste hose and have to come back inside to pull for discharge ,(if solo) and then reverse the procedure, BUT its far easier to do than loose bay space and then need to heat the bay so the sewage stays comfortable. The FW fill is a std SS boat piece marked FRESH WATER, that requires a key to open . Gravity is your friend , not taxed yet , and mostly works 24/7. Simple is nice , and simple. FAST FRED | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Hey Fred; Does gravity pull or suck? Sometimes I can't figure out the difference if there is any. Right now the plan (disaster?) is to use a syphon effect to empty the gray and black tanks. This I tried using one of those 50 gal plastic olive barrels and electrical PVC sweeps and fittings. Bottom suck. Set the barrel up on sawhorses at the right height, glued/screwed on the pipes, filled it with water.... And let her rip. Sosss far, sooosss good. Once I primed the pipes, the barrel emptyed with a whooosssh once I opened the vent. Wheather or not this will work in the coach remains to be seen. Should work, but..... wish me luck as I think I am going to need it. | ||
| FAST FRED (63.215.225.115) Rating: N/A |
" Once I primed the pipes, the barrel emptyed with a whooosssh once I opened the vent. If you can use a tiny bit of air pressure to the tank ,the "prime" part could be fairly easy , if the lift is small. Getting the last bit out to winterize might be hard tho. FAST FRED | ||
| Stephen Fessenden (Sffess) (67.226.254.63)
Rating: N/A |
Henry, how about using a sewage sump pump to pump out the gray, black water tanks. They can handle solids of over an inch and can empty a tank pretty quick. Prices are around $60. Yes it would be a good idea to have an emergency gravity drain, but if the sump pump is the normal drain the gravity drain can be in a less convenient place for emergency only use. You could also plumb the sump pump through valve to recirculate within the tank for cleaning. Of course it would need an access plate to pull it for cleaning if it clogs with gobs of paper or something. | ||
| FAST FRED (65.59.77.59) Rating: N/A |
Steves Idea is a good one . Just be sure to NEVER attempt to use a Macreator, although the various Mfg claim they will lift , they usually just burn out instead. You may be sucessful with an inch or 2 of lift but try for a foot & buy a new unit. FAST FRED |