| Author | Message | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
SO here I am driving my Crown in the high desert up lotsa hills, watching my temp gauge stabilize out at just over 200, which according to my version of "Da book" is over the maximum limit for my engine, thinking "hmmmm it didnt' do this before the conversion process..." (at that point my origional thermostat was stuck wide opened and the engine never got above 140, so I got a "working" one from the junkyard and installed it) Last week I reported that I thought I found the bug- I'd changed the radiator 'cause the old one was leaky, and neglected to reinstall what I thought was a fairly unimportant hunk of sheetmetal...turned out that without it a LOT of hot air was being redirected back into the radiator. Great I though...problem solved...nope, next trip it did the same thing although not as badly. SO on the way home from the trip I stopped by my fave Crown junkyard again, nabbed yet another thermostat from one of the junkers, took my housing apart AGAIN and boiled the new thermostat along with mine (same part number)... guess what? My thermostat opens only about 1/3 max at 200f while the newer one is fully opened at 175 as the book says it oughta be!! COOL (pun intended)....can't wait for the next trip- I have a feeling it's gonna run real cool now... My lesson: Never take it for granted that junkyard things will always work as they oughta just because they came out of a fully working vehicle.... http://www.heartmagic.com/zzthermostats.jpg Cheers | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.164.175.155)
Rating: N/A |
Hey Gary; A very COOL picture of your old old and new old thermostats! He he he. Thank you. If you were to develope a hiway spare parts kit for your Crown Super Coach, would you include a spare good working condition thermostat? And....if sooossss, what other little spare parts would you include? Would the various belts and hoses be a good idea also? What about good used filtures? My Crown has a total of 7. I am assuming the couple of cases of cold beer to assist the breakdown go without saying. Do you carry a spare tire or do you plan to? A way to change out the tire? Anyway I do appreciate your ongoing efforts with your Crown in general and your help with this board in particular. Thanks CROWNS FOREVER!!! Henry of CJ (1974 Crown 10-wheeler, 37317) | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
I carry a full set of spare belts, some hoses and fittings, a gallon of engine oil and a couple gallons of coolant..wiring parts and my tools. On long trips was originally planning to carry a spare tire- I have the pneumatic jack and giant air operated lug wrench, so changing a tire on the road is easily possible, but so far I think just having GOOD tires all around will probably make carrying that giant set of stuff unnecessary, unless I decide to drive the Al-can highway... I don't consider filters something necessary to carry because they don't suddenly "break" and are availiable everywhere, but it's sure nice to have stuff like tools and various valves and pipe fittings on the bus when something really unforseen happens like on my last trip where a 1/8npt plug unscrewed itself from the compressor governor and my air suddenly went full tilt to 150psi...it took me less than 5 minutes to figure it out and mouse up a safe fix until I got to the next town. Cheers Gary | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.62.237)
Rating: N/A |
Gary, in all due respect, your saga is precisely the reason I have decided to leave all the engineering to the Crown folks. I have not read a thing on this or any other board which would prompt me to change one thing under the floor. In fact, RJ convinced me a long time ago that Crown had a good thing and what more could I ask. I purchased my coach from an original owner who put nearly a million miles on the coach in 38 years and have found nothing in their archives, all passed on to me, that indicated they felt it necessary to alter anything, except three things. They added a CB radio, A hand operated spot light and two "aircraft landing type lights". The latter two for student interest and probably some added appearance. My Gross weight prior to conversion was (and I guess still is) 38,500. (Stripped of seats, with my wife and two dogs and 3/4 full tank, the coach weighed 23,600) I drove from Flagstaff to Las Cruces, all in an afternoon/evening, as I recall 5-600 miles. The 10 speed performed well, the temperature stayed between 170 and 180 on varying terrain, including steep grades. It used no oil, got roughly 12 miles to the gallon, ran at 1600/1700 rpm at 65 mph and generally performed very well. I have driven approximately 1400 miles since that trip in July of 2001, the most recent being this past weekend on mountain roads with gearing as low as 3rd and up to 6th gear for hours on end (entire trip was 250+ miles over 10 hours). Neither my wife, who drove about 100 of those mountain miles, nor I used the brakes at all, in the course of normal driving on that terrain, relying only on the Jake. Below the floor I am changing nothing with exception of adding a generator, a couple of propane tanks, a Webasto and possibly a basement A/C, if I can figure a way to vent it. Everything else stays as is, including turbo, exhaust, batteries, radiator, engine, transmission and fuel tank. Water tanks and all plumbing are "upstairs". Incidentally, I saw a fellow Saturday who was driving 1981 10 wheel Crown Super Coach for an AZ school. Great looking bus with automatic. He said he wished it was a manual....drives in a lot of mountain terrain. Figures, huh? (His coach A/C unit is where you put your propane tank.) In short, I seem to have a good thing going, and I ain't gunna mess it up.....I hope!  As my ole' mom says....."to each his own". RCB | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
Yup RC, I agree to a point. Where it had to deviate for me is that my bus came to me with a non-functional Crown variable-pitch fan that ya can't get parts for anymore, a 5 speed with a single plate clutch, a 5:29 rear end, a stuck thermostat, no turbo, no engine retarder, etc. I'm just bringing it up to speed as best I can without the availiability of Crown being in business any longer... Cheers Gary | ||
| bob m (198.81.26.174) Rating: N/A |
My crown has a fan problem. I have a highway crown w/8v71 and all the belts have an air tensioning cylinder. The fan has a right angle drive and is free floating to allow the air cylinder to provide belt tension. If the engine rpms drop real low (almost stalling) the fan belt is pulled back and the fan blades hit the bottom of the shroud. I can't see a way to cure this, anyone have a similar deal. | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Sorry I do not have any experience with the rear engined Crown with the V8 Detroit. However, having said that, wish I had one. Suggest you try the following two contacts; West Coach down in Chico CA (East of LA) the number is 1-800-929-2258 and ask to speak to Chuck. Ex Crown employees. Patrick Young (Fresno CA) His E-mail add- ress is..... I forgot it! Have to get it and get back to you. The only thing I can think of off hand is maybe the engine mounts are a little loose, letting the mill torque a bit when nearly stalled? Thus twitching and letting the fan move? Also perhaps the mounts or bearings on the fan itself are a little tired and under some conditions wiggle a little bit, thus causing your problem? May only happen when the mill is torqued around in its mounts when nearly stalled? Good luck and.....CROWNS FOREVER!!! | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Found Patrick Youngs E-mail address. It is... wheelchairbusproject@juno.com Pat lives in Fresno CA and is one of the best West Coast experts on Gilligs and Crowns. If anyone can help you, he could. Goood luck. CROWNS FOREVER!!! | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A |
Ah, Henry - West Coach is in CHINO, not Chico. Chico's where the best party school in the country's located - California State University, Chico! I know, I'm an alumni! *hic* 8^) RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Oh gosh and regosh!!!!! Why can't I ever get that straight? Yea, you are correct. Chico is the city/town North of Sacramento. Used to drive close to it going to visit my folks who lived in Magalia up the hill from Paradise at the time. Chino is the poor place down in San Bernadino Country kinda South of San Bernadino East of Los Angeles. Chino with the "NO" means to me it is down in Commiefornia in the LA basin. West Coach is in Chino, no Chico. Thanks. CROWNS FOREVER!! | ||
| Johnny (63.159.184.125)
Rating: N/A |
Henry: Don't like your front-engine Cummins/RR? | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A |
Johnny - Crown didn't build front-engined buses. They were all either mid-ship or pushers, and all transit-style, no dog noses. Henry's is a mid-ship, with the Cummins laid over on it's side. RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Johnny (63.159.184.13)
Rating: N/A |
So his is essentially a cab-over 10-wheel truck with a bus body? | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A |
No, it's not a 10-wheel cab-over. First, Crown did not build a body-on-chassis design like a dog-nose or a cab-over 18-wheeler. It is integral, more like a highway coach. In the automotive world, this is commonly called a "unibody". There are two massive frame rails incorporated into the structure, from which the suspension and powertrain are hung, but you cannot unbolt the body off of them. Gilligs use a similar design. They did use HD truck axles and brakes, so service for these items are available at any HD truck service shop. It also means that a 10-wheel Crown will STOP when you jump on the binders!! I don't think I've ever driven any model bus with more powerful brakes than one of these. Sounds like you've never seen a Crown or Gillig skoolie. Here's a website for you to surf: www.crownbus.com RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Johnny (63.159.197.21)
Rating: N/A |
Ah--the frame & body are integrated. I see. Your site is down, though. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A |
I just logged into it ok. http://www.crownbus.com Try again. . . RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Johnny (63.159.197.21)
Rating: N/A |
My ISP sucks or something--I get a "Page cannot be displayed" message. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A |
Must be your ISP. . . clicking on the link takes me right to it. Try cutting & pasting to see if that works. . . | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Yea Johnny, when you get your thinkum dimkum fixed go ahead the cruise that site. Pretty cool. The Buskid is to be congradulated for all of her work. My Banana Boat (her name!) has six 16" air brakes and yea, imagine a logging truck chassis with a bonded frame/bus body and you get the idea. Once upon a time a while ago in another state someone was traveling North of Interstate 5 just north of Mt. Shasta in Northern California. Had a Crown very similiar to mine up to 85 mph in 10th gear and slammed on the binders to seees how good the brakes were.. Incredible the story goooess. Practically put everything thru the windshield. Yea, Crowns can go and they can definitely stop. CROWNS FOREVER! | ||
| William R. Graf (Billfrombrazil) (206.158.10.224)
Rating: N/A |
Hey there RCB Just a suggestion concerning placement of water tanks on your Crown. We bought one that had been converted about 10 years ago and now I am redoing it to suit the needs of my wife who is on a walker since she had her hip joint taken out permanently. It came with four long, flat, stainless steel tanks on top for a total water capacity of 200 gallons. The tanks are valved individually so you can fill all or part as desired. They are then foam insulated and covered with sheet metal for a pretty good looking installation and a well insulatled roof with tanks that won't freeze as long as there is any heat at all in the coach. I am doing a lot that I hadn't planned on but the bus is coming along well and the more I see of it the more favorably impressed I am. I am an experienced mechanic and have driven a lot of trucks, both semi's and straights. The rear suspension on this Crown is one of the best I've seen in my estimation. Ours has the 250 cummins with the HT-70 Allison six-speed. I drove it here from North Carolina in May and the temperature never moved off 170 degrees no matter what. I think you have the right idea in leaving things basically stock, the system works the way it is! Bill | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
Well it's perfect timing, because I was gong to write another little report today anyway about the overheating thing. I finally got a good working 165 degree thermostat installed, and that was the big problem. The old one never opened enough. So now that the cooling system is up to snuff, I took 'er out on a drive, and found that my addition of the two speed fan clutch was indeed well worth doing. If I leave the fan clutch disengaged (meaning that the fan runs at about 1/4 speed), the engine temperature sits right at 170 no matter what I do unless I pull a big grade- Then the fan clutch automatically engages and the engine gets up to maybe 175 max. as the clutch pulls in and out keeping things in check. But for most driving it stays off, thus I figure I either gain about 15 horsepower to the wheels, or the corresponding savings in fuel by not having that fan running full tilt all the time. It's tons quieter too. Just for grins I turned it on full for about half an hour....the engine cooled down to 145 and wouldn't budge above that no matter what- telling me that the fixed-blade fan has plenty of extra capacity for a hot day and things in the cooling system are now working top notch. So in this case, I think I get one point for re-engineering 1962 Crown technology.... Cheers! Gary | ||
| FAST FRED (65.58.191.138) Rating: N/A |
If you can save 15 HP , you have saved a gallon of fuel every hour. GREAT! FAST FRED | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (64.114.233.35)
Rating: N/A |
Hey, Fast Fred, is that for a DD or a four stroke? Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 | ||
| FAST FRED (63.215.238.252) Rating: N/A |
With a DD your lucky to get 15 or 16 HP from a Gal an hour. For the after cooled , inter cooled ,dual pressure turbocharged. high pressure injectors electric timed new motors up to 22HP per gal is now possible. Most 25 year old truck engines get about 18 Hp/Gal,which is a big percentage improvement over 15 of DD. However the 4 stroke stuff suffers much less when you lightly load a big engine. On DD its considered wise to have a 60%+ load on as a minimum ,as the fuel used seldom falls much below that level , even only asking for half that power. So the old addage , "run em as if you want to kill them." (keep a DD hard working) With out turbos a rough eatimate can be made by just finding out the effective compression ratio, but the Mfg is still the best source. The aerodynamic drag of the coach uses most of the power in flats running. The smoother the coach , NO antenna farm , 3rd world roof cargo , smaller mirrors ,no rooftop air cond carbunkles ect helps the milage , esp at speed. FAST FRED | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Hey Gary, I was wondering if raising your roof actually improved your cooling ability by pushing thru more air now and lowering the pressure under the coach more.... And with that new lower mud-flap converor belt do-nicky thing you installed under the coach just in front of the engine creating even a better low pressure area.... Maybe you infact did improve upon the principle Crown used when they designed the cooling system on the bus. With the windows closed, the system really sucks (works well) indeed. CROWNS FOREVER!!! | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
I think raising the roof added some more drag thus making the engine work harder and taking about 1 MPG off the efficiency. It wasn't me that installed the mud flap thing- my bus already had two of them and they're still there. But I think that my 2 speed fan clutch is definitely an improvement on the Crown design- it's the trick probably responsible for adding that mpg right back, because before the conversion I was getting 10mpg with an empty, low bus and no farm of junk on the roof (Air's, antennas, etc) and now that the bus is done with all that stuff on top, a raised roof, and weighing 29000 pounds, it's still getting 10 mpg, maybe a tad more. Crown originally used what they called their "kontrol-fan", which was a variable pitch fan controlled by water temperature. It was largely a failure. In the early 70's they replaced it with a fixed-blade fan, and added a temperature-controlled variable shutter in front of the radiator instead. It works but I can't help but think it's overly complicated and doesn't work as well efficiency-wise as the old variable blade fans did. Every one I've seen to date has been unhooked, again leaving the fan full-on all the time. Today most of the "kontrol-fan"'s no longer work and so their blades are just locked down in a full-on position, or replaced with a fiberglass fan that's also full-on all the time. Surprisingly, many guys I've talked to that have them thought that the thingie hooked to back of the fan was a water pump and they removed it! Well, it looks like a little water pump but It's actually the water temperature sensor that changed the blade pitch. Mine had been removed long ago, and they aren't made any longer because Crown is gone. The two speed eddy-current fan clutch solves all those problems perfectly... the fan glides along slowly, not eating horsepower, until you really need the cooling, then kicks in to high automatically, seamlessly. Yup, a definite improvement on old Crown-tech! Now today I just got my new "altitude comp" turbo in the mail, so when I get that hooked up I hope to see even a tad more MPG- at least I won't be smoking my brains out and getting passed by loaded concrete trucks in the mountains any more!!! If nothing else it'll sound c@@l....wooossheeeeeeeeee.... http://www.heartmagic.com/zzNewturbo.jpg (that cleaned out the bank account pretty good...ugh) Cheers Gary | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.164.175.35)
Rating: N/A |
What a cool looking turbo! I noticed it has a dashpot looking do-hickie thing on it. Can you adjust the boost manually or does it do it automaticially? Yea, my Cummins retired master mechanic friend person said you can run 10-12 psi boost easy without changing the pistons, timing, pump settings or fuel pressure and NO smoke. He said you can expect about 230 to 240 hp and around 750 to 800 pounds of torque and it will NOT hurt your mill a all. Soosss....go for it! CROWNS FOREVER!!! | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
Henry, that dohickie is the wastegate actuator. I can set it at any pressure I want and the engine's intake manifold will just sit at that pressure automatically. If there's any excess, the dohickie (a cheepo air cylinder) senses the excess pressure and opens the wastegate, letting exhaust gas bypass the turbine, slowing the wheel down and keeping the mill's intake presure from getting too high. Cool! Now I've been told by the turbo company and a few others that 5-6 psi is ok, but 10-12? What's the chance I could get ya to email me your guy's number? I'd certainly like to ask him a question or two! First, I'd think that to get any more HP I'd have to up the fuel pump buttons- but then we're talking about screwing with something that is feeling "edgy" to me as far as engine-killing tactics. I'd like to see where he comes up with that pressure and such...first hand experience? I certanily don't wanna kill the mill!! My old email address was gary@heartmagic.com but I just abandoned it because I accidentally posted it *just once* on this board a few months back and was rewarded with about 100 spam's per day! Ugh. Replace the gary with gareee to get me... Crud, I forgot my BNO password and can't get ahold if Ian to help me change my profile... Cheers Gary | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Yea, a couple of points. First to William. I just now re-read your post regarding the thin stainless steel tanks totaling 200 gallons on the top of the Crown. Did you mean that the tanks were actually on top of the roof? Or did you say the tanks were on top of the inside floor as I thought you meant? Reason why I ask is that, upon reflection, 200 gallons on the ROOF of the coach has to be a bunch of top weight! Did you mean on top of the inside floor? Sorry for the confusion, but then I confuse easily. I also am planning on mounting the 200 gallon water tanks inside on top of the floor, only in my case, on top of the four rear wheel wells. Thank you. Gary, my E-mail address is henryofcj@hotmail.com. Zap me and I will give you the phone number of my Cummins mechanic friend. CROWNS FOREVER!!! | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Gary, I just tried your new E-mail address as stated/modified from your old address and the new address came back as no good. Feel free to E-mail me at my address and I will provide the phone number of the local retired Cummins master mechanic regarding boost levels on your otherwise stock 220 743 Cummims pancake mill in the middle of the coach on its left side because you have the best bus in the world if not the sector because it is a CROWN SUPER COACH!!! He he he | ||
| William R. Graf (Billfrombrazil) (206.158.10.224)
Rating: N/A |
Henry, Yes, I did mean to say "on top" of the bus, like on top of the roof. The tanks are long and low and don't seem to make much difference up there. So far I haven't tried driving it with them all full but with one I could tell absolutely no difference. By being long and narrow, as well as low, the problem with surge is minimized as well as no noticible side forces generated. I like them up there because, like I said, they won't freeze with any heat at all in the bus and they help insulate the roof. Not only that but I have gravity flow water which I grew very used to in Brazil since that is all we had for twenty years. There is a little pressure pump in the system but that is only necessary for the hot water (Bosch instant heat LP gas type). I have all the space filled over every one of my fender wells (as well as every other available square inch inside!) Due to my wife's walker I had to make all the aisle space extra wide so lose a lot of otherwise usable space. We will be full-time and need to make it all work for us. Bill |