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Message |
Jason (24.207.156.213)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2002 - 11:56 pm: | |
Hey all its me again, I think I am going to go with the skoolie conversion. I was recently with my son on a school trip and I think a lot could be accomplished! The only problem I have is the ride. It is way too harsh. What is the best way to correct this? I was possibly thinking of gas shocks but I don't know. Thanks for all the great advice you guys give! |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 12:54 am: | |
Shocks will not eliminate the harshness of the steel-sprung skoolie, especially the dog-noses.
Remember, a dog-nosed skoolie is basically a bus body on a truck chassis. Simple, rugged, rough. Designed to haul a bunch of kids a short distance, then be parked till it's time to take them home. A comfortable ride is NOT one of the major design priorities - they're more concerned with meeting Fed and State regs pertaining to skoolies, and still make a profit in a low-bid selling situation.
Back when I was putting myself thru college driving for the local school district, most of us would BEG to drive a Crown or Gillig midship or pusher on the longer field trips, rather than the dog-noses.
OTOH, an air-ride Thomas or Blue Bird pusher will ride much better. But look underneath, and check out how many air bellows are under there. If it's just on the rear axle, or if there's only a total of four, be prepared for a rougher ride, but one that's still softer than steel spring. If there's six or eight, now you're getting into highway coach territory, and the ride will be much nicer, especially if it has eight bellows (four per axle).
Hope this helps smooth this topic out for you (pun intended!!)
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
George Myers (12.85.0.136)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 10:30 pm: | |
The problem with most school buses with steel springs is that the springs are too short. One can get an acceptable ride with steel springs, but only if they are long enough. There is not much that can be done to help the ride of a steel spring schoolie. |
Johnny (63.159.184.125)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 1:14 am: | |
You can add an air-ride system to a skoolie. I plan to on my Ford/Thomas. Custom springs can also work.
OTOH, didn't the (leaf-sprung) Crowns ride pretty well?
And don't underestimate the difference made by radial tires! |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 1:32 am: | |
Johnny -
The leaf-sprung Crowns and Gilligs ride a WHOLE lot better than a dog-nosed skoolie, as do the transit-style Thomas's and Blue Birds. Empty or loaded!
As I said in my earlier post, while I was putting myself thru college, I drove for the local school district (all four years). We had dog-noses plus Crowns and Gilligs. To a man/woman, 95% of us would BEG to take a Crown/Gillig on the longer field trips, primarily because they were FAR more comfortable riding and to drive for longer periods.
Not having to put up with the engine noise and heat was another major reason, too. . .
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
FAST FRED (63.208.83.161)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 5:20 am: | |
Don't forget the dirt blowing in thru the front door either.
FAST FRED |
Johnny (63.159.184.13)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 11:54 am: | |
There is no way you will EVER convince me that sitting on top of a Cummins diesel truck engine in a mid-engine Crown is quieter than a long-nose with a gas engine (or even some diesels, though the T444E IH's I saw were certainly loud).
Heat? Haven't noticed it on mine.
I know long-noses are bouncy--especially when gutted of all interior stuff, yikes. However, air bags and/or custom springs will help this, a lot. But again, don't underestimate what radials can do--even now, I've seen plenty of dog-noses on bias-plys (probably cheaper?), & I've never seen a pusher on anything but radials. |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 12:28 pm: | |
You're NOT sitting on top of the powertrain.
You're sitting fifteen feet in front of it in a forty-footer.
Oh, sure, you hear it at idle when stopped, but once you get rolling, all that heat and noise are behind you.
Agree on the radials, but it seems to me it's been a long time since any of tire manufacturers have built rag tires. . . those that are still out there at this point in time, I wouldn't trust.
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
Johnny (63.159.197.21)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 1:49 pm: | |
They're still being made--by a few companies. Of course, there are also retreads around.
The long-nose school buses (all IH diesels now) around here all run 10.00x22.5 bias-ply tires. Again, I assume it's a cost issue.
Am I right in thinking the Crown engines are UNDER the floor? |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 2:15 pm: | |
Yes, the Crown engines (in the midship models) are laid over on their sides under the floor.
Very common design in Europe, btw, altho that's changing. Low-floor designs cannot use midship pancakes, have to be pushers.
Most large fleets lease their tires on a per/mile basis. Rag tires are cheap, and in the application you're talking about, ride comfort and longevity are not major concerns, plus, how often do you see a skoolie doing over 45 mph? Most are not freeway fliers. . .
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
Johnny (63.159.197.21)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2002 - 3:13 pm: | |
Over 45? Frequently. Over 60? Never--state law, governed at 60. Fortunately, mine isn't--65 is easy. |
John the busboy (12.73.163.248)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2002 - 2:29 am: | |
My 2 cents........
School bus ride.....we have ballast and have lowered the air pressure in the tires to what is recomended for the weight on each axle. This has helped quite a bit. We are thinking about air ride. Freight Liner most likely. The hardest part will be welding the lateral control arm perch on the axle housing. Everything else seems to be drilling and bolting.
Noise.....we have added sound deadning material. The kind used by auto unpholstery shops that do hot rods and other custom vehicles. And as we add things to the bus the engine sound gets absorbed. Wrapping the exhaust pipe from the turbo back about 4 feet helped. And suspending the end of the exhaust pipe from the chassis instead of the body helped also. We have reduced the engine noise about 12 to 15 dB so far.
Heat.....keep the air leaks in the fire wall plugged. There was heat leaking in around the foot petal. Made it really hot on the feet in the Summer.
Tires....11R22.5 G rated. These are replacement tires. They gave us 3 or 4 mph over the tires that the bus came with. And they are tubless, tough, and do better in winter....siping seems to work. These are the largest size that will fit on our bus.
Dirt in the front door......avoid dusty roads. We usually leave the front door open when on the freeway. It works like a big air conditioner.
Speed..........was 52 or 53, now we cruise at 55 to 57. Not fast, but we get there. It crusies at 55 up 5% grades as well. Removing the extra mirrors and wind catchers unloaded the torque converter to give us 1 mph. Next up is a 5 speed overdrive.
School buses are not for everyone. But there are some very nice skoolies on the road and there are some wild ones also. Our is sort of hum-drum right now. We are doing all the mechanical stuff before we get serious about the plumbing, paint, AC, and heat. For us ride quality is everything.
Later
John the busboy |
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