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degojo (198.81.26.174)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 10:53 am: | |
looked at a bus for sale in new mexico that i have not seen before. it is a crown pusher with an 8v71 and an allison auto, 40 ft with a tag axle. has a raised roof and large storage bays. step up passenger compartment but not a lot of head room it is a 1980 model highway coach. looks like a good conversion candidate. any opinions? |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 4:41 pm: | |
Wow, I THINK you may have found one of the rare rear engine pushers made by Crown towards the end of their career.
Is the body rather boxy in configeration instead of the usual rounded front and rear? Plus with the storage bins under the floor....
Makes me think it may be one of the highway models Crown did make. If sooosss, it is a rare bird indeed.
Do you know if the tag axle is driven or not? Is the tag axle between the mill and the driven axle? You may have found the ultimate Crown....
If you are looking for a conversion candidate. Are the sides shinny metal or just painted? Anyway.....you need to contact a real Crown expert.
Try www.crownbus.com and use the contact address for Trina the buskid. She knows 10 times more about Crowns in general than I do.
Also try Richard at......I forgot his address. Will have to pull it and get back to you. Crowns are soossss neat and you have found a rare one. CROWNS FOREVER!!! |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 7:01 pm: | |
Try Richard also at;
wheelchairbusproject@juno.com
He lives in Fresno CA and travels a whole lot in Central and South America doing various good things to people who need help.
He has owned probably a dozen Crowns along with dozens of Gilligs. Heck of a nice guy. Good luck. CROWNS FOREVER Henry of CJ ('74 10-wheeler 37137) |
degojo (198.81.26.174)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 11:32 pm: | |
It is a rounded front and rear body. no storage under the floor but massive bays cross under the entire bus. tag axle is not driven. a switch on the dash raises the rear suspension about 8 inches for clearance. air bag suspension, large a/c blowers on each side in the overhead rack, several small heater blowers along the sides of the floor for heat, has a strange air filter flat 16" x 16" with cones looks like a large egg crate guy want $7500 for it. runs perfect starts instantly no smoke, i started it from cold. |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.164.175.14)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 6:01 pm: | |
The big question would be what kind of overall condition is the rest of the coach? Too bad you are not reasonably close to a good coach shop where you could spend the $500 and 2 days and have it completely imspected.
Always lots of little stuff that may be wrong which would cost dearly if all added up, plus big suprises such as major mechanical stuff. Crown did not make many of these buses and I do not know what kind of spares are available.
Thus the rub. Lots of Crown ex-schoolies still running around. Very few interstate transits even built, much less surviving to this day. If you really want it, go offer $2500 as is where is and see what happens. Good luck and CROWNS FOREVER!!! |
Steve 80 Crown Atomic (205.188.209.11)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 7:44 am: | |
The coach you’re looking at is a Crown highway model, series 389XX, known among Crown aficionados as an “Atomic” because it was designed to unusual specifications for the Atomic Energy Commission.
I own one, and in 3 years of frequent searching have located only 12 others, mine and another the only ones being converted. Your coach, one of five, arrived in Albuquerque in August 1999 and sold for $8000. Based on the price, I suspect it was one sold to a music band, or less likely, to a local church. Probably #120, #119, or #124.
As far as mechanical condition...
A bus service center may not be much help in determining the overall health of the coach. The rare few mechanics familiar with these coaches, refer to them as “Brucks” because the mechanical design and systems are much more similar to 18-wheelers than buses like MCI, Prevost, etc.
I strongly doubt either the band or church buses received any kind of mechanical upkeep besides filling the fuel tank, since August 1999. One band bus has been sitting semi derelict for at least a year, I saw the other in Albuquerque still using the 30-day temporary tag, two years after it was sold. The church sold one of the buses with a “starting problem”, which was quite obvious but they apparently didn’t have anyone smart enough to spot a chaffed fuel line.
Look at the electrical systems above the rear engine area. It probably still has the original Crown wiring, and probably all the original Crown components. Like most shells, to make this a reliable coach, plan on replacing all of the wiring, 1/3rd of the electrical components, all the fuel/oil/hydraulic lines, most of the 12 airbags, etc. The air conditioning system you describe is original and totally unsuitable for a conversion, the evaporator blower noise is difficult to talk over, and a leak that lets out 33 lbs of R-12 will cost you about $1000 for a refill, if you can even find R-12. The radiator, like in most old coaches, will probably need replacing.
I’ll bet you won’t need to replace a single piece of this bus from rust or corrosion, due to the materials, design, craftsmanship, and operational history of this bus.
It’s 95% steel, and nearly all of the steel in this coach is Ultra-High Tensile Steel, very tough stuff that takes decades of abuse and still doesn’t rust. Some parts I sandblasted, then discarded, have been through several winters, monsoon seasons, and received daily watering from a sprinkler system, but the only rust is on the welds, which used mild steel. There are several bare metal areas in the wheel wells that are also rust free. The steel should be mig or tig welded to avoid cracking it. By the time Crown manufactured this coach, they had been building coaches for 60 YEARS, and had seen and solved about every problem known. If you disassemble it, pay close attention to all the neat but simple techniques they used to eliminate corrosion, chaffing, etc. The craftsmanship is superb, some of it is a little strange, because many of the extra efforts made are not readily visible. The unofficial history of these buses is as follows... They were delivered to the A.E.C. nuclear facility at Argonne, Idaho, in 1980/81. A few years later they were put into storage, then used for short intercity travel in Idaho. They were used as charter buses in Las Vegas, then ran short scenic tours at the Grand Canyon, before being sold to an Albuquerque truck dealer in 1999.
I think one reason for the high quality construction is that these buses were already sold at a profit, via govt contract, before construction began. They were not mass-produced at the lowest possible cost for an unknown future buyer, like a lot of other coaches were.
The tires are probably close to new, a typical shell usually needs all new rubber.
As far as finding parts for it...
This coach is unique. I’ve spent an entire weekend examining a Crown Schoolcoach (many hundreds manufactured), and it probably has less than 5% parts and design commonality with an Atomic. Comparing a Crown Atomic to a Crown Schoolcoach is like comparing apples to oranges. They have a slightly similar outward appearance, but everything else is quite different.
You will not find structural parts for it anywhere, but that should not be a problem unless you’re trying to repair significant accident damage. Most of the mechanical systems are off-the-shelf truck parts, easy to find at truck yards/stores, and cheaper than bus parts. I’ve tried numerous times to get advice from West Coach in Chino (the only serious Crown service center still around) but they have no data and no parts on these coaches. There are no wiring diagrams, no service manuals, no parts books. Most every piece of structure on my coach has a part number, but they don’t match any of the data at West Coach. Again, this has NOT been a problem because my coach has all it’s original Crown-only parts, and 99% are in great condition.
As a conversion candidate...
It can be converted into a nice motorhome, but you’ll be doing everything solo, with no Crown data, or 20-year Crown expert to rely on. I’ve spoken with all of the Crown-Nuts referenced in this thread, but they have no experience with this model Crown. I did locate a gold mine in Nevada running 7 heavily modified Atomics, but their maintenance chief made it crystal clear he wasn’t interested in helping/talking with converters. Despite a few hundred hours searching the net, I haven’t found any significant information on these models.
I have collected scraps of Crown servicing data, but very little of it is for this model. So, as I reverse-engineer this bus, I will be writing and illustrating my own wiring diagrams, parts and maintenance manuals. I wouldn’t suggest this coach to a neophyte, but if you have a solid mechanical background, plenty of tools, and enjoy a good challenge, this coach can become a fist class conversion, because your starting with a first class shell.
I have a background in mechanical repair, mostly structural, and a well equipped shop, so a solo conversion wasn’t a
roadblock, just a speed bump that required more time to figure everything out by myself. I am probably one of the most knowledgeable people on this specific coach, having opened up almost every system except the engine/trans, but health problems have stopped my conversion efforts. I don’t spend much time on the internet anymore.
It is a HEAVY coach, built like a Sherman tank, but with a plasma cutter and a lot of effort, you can remove several tons of unneeded weight. Disassembling this coach caused a bit of head scratching, because Crown used some unusual construction methods. Access to mechanical systems is significantly better than many other buses I’ve examined, making routine inspection and maintenance much easier. The engine area has large access doors on rear, sides and top. The systems running between the center main frame rails can be accessed from removable floor panels running the ENTIRE length of the bus, as well as from removable panels in the baggage bays. Components in the nose can be accessed from removable panels in the cockpit area, and from huge exterior nose panels that are removable. This access was a big selling point for me because I plan to do all the servicing and maintenance work myself.
All ten full length side windows are hinged at the top for extra ventilation and as emergency exits. The rear bumper/frame is a massive battering ram, designed to repel cars impacting at any speed. The huge truck brakes will stop this coach much like a car, you have the option of slowing down or locking the brakes and screeching to a halt.
Although the ceiling is around 6'3", I wanted to raise and flatten the roof on mine. This can be done, but is a much bigger challenge than say for an MCI. To compensate for moving the engine from midships to the rear, Crown built a structural inner roof extending from the middle of the coach to the rear, to help support the engine. Cutting through this structure to raise the roof could create a myriad of structural problems unless a sound engineering plan is developed and followed.
My plan is to build a bus capable of performing a variety of missions, including dry camping 2-3 months at a time, hauling heavy cargo, supporting a 4-5 person aircraft recovery team at remote locations, supporting a motion-picture film crew, a mobile command center, a mobile aircraft/auto repair shop, etc. To that end, various sizes of water tanks, fuel tanks, genset, etc, will be easily installed/removed from the bus, depending on the upcoming mission. There are plenty of unused spaces for house components, to help keep the baggage bays open. I’ve relocated components between the main frame rails so I can put 126 gallons of fresh water between the rails. I’ve also extended the baggage bays aft 14 inches, and reinforced the bays to hold several tons of weight. I’ve added removable panels to provide easier access to some areas.
email me and I can provide you with some additional information that will make your purchase/negotiation easier.
Steve ‘80 Crown Atomic
GAU5AA@aol.com |
Bradd B. Smith (Bbsrtbusproject) (216.18.141.160)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, October 13, 2002 - 12:12 am: | |
Thanks Steve! Thanks Ian! Is there any doubt why this board is the best? Bradd |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 8:22 pm: | |
Yea Steve, thanks for bailing me out and the great post. I have read it several times. CROWNS FOREVER!!!! ('74 10-wheeler 37317) henryofcj@hotmail.com |
R Johnstone (Chilebrew) (68.129.111.241)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 11:57 pm: | |
STEVE! Good to hear from you! How far along are you with your conversion? Have you had to stop entirely?
Degojo: Ask Steve for his tel. no., or correspond with him e-mail; he knows this model inside-out.
I chased the band bus unsuccessfully and talked to the church people (in Los Lunas----they wanted a profit) a couple of years ago. Finally bought a NJ Eagle. I have the impression both were skimpy on maintenance; however, the core is as solid as you can get. |
R Johnstone (Chilebrew) (68.129.111.241)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 12:01 am: | |
By the way, this is not the rear engine school bus Crown built before going out of business. |
Steve 80 Crown Atomic (198.81.26.174)
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2002 - 8:11 am: | |
Hey! I have chased several of the Albuquerque Atomics. The latest was 4-5 months ago, someone had painted it dark brown with a white top, headed south in Albuquerque’s south valley, didn’t catch it, don’t know who currently owns it.
I wasted considerable time trying to work with that church, offering free maintenance for their help in making larger parts purchases, but they blew me off. I guess they later found out how expensive it was to maintain a commercial coach.. They paid $8000 per coach, but recently sold their two Atomics for $2500 each. Wish I’d been there, the new tires were worth more than that. Hope their small group of parishioners aren’t aware of that $11,000 blunder.
I want a coach that will go 20 years without problems, so I decided to disassemble everything, to ensure it would all go 20 years, and to understand how everything works. I’m probably 30% done with restoring the shell to factory-new condition, but that includes a number of major structural modifications.
The aluminum panels are being replaced with heavy stainless, all the now-unneeded screw holes are welded closed.. All structure is being taken down to bare metal, primed with zinc chromate and given multiple coats of Imron or Rustoleum’s 9100 series industrial paint, although there are several coats of polyurethane on the outside that have resisted sandblasting and chemical strippers. I’m adding access panels everywhere I want them.
Health problems have stopped me from doing any physical work on the coach, don’t know when I’ll be able to resume conversion, but I don’t plan on ever giving up while I’m still breathing.
If I had plenty of money, I’d buy five of them, just so I could turn each one into a truly one-of-kind transport. The nice thing about being built like Sherman tanks, is that you can heavily modify the structure with much less fear of creating structural problems than with other coaches. Lengthening or shortening this coach is very easy to do properly. I’ve left most of the steel plate running front-to-back untouched, but did remove the air conditioning ducts, which weighed about 300 lbs. I’ve stripped out the baggage bays and made one large bay. I’ll bet I’ve removed about three tons so far, real curious to know what it weighs now.
I did clean the coach very gently when I first got it, and found readable data plates and manufacturer’s decals on most components, a great start to building a parts/servicing guide.
I don’t know about the others, but my coach has an experimental anti-lock brake system that was installed, then deactivated. All the components are still there, going to be a fun challenge figuring that out.
Steve |
Buslady of Crowns hehe (168.103.232.151)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 21, 2002 - 3:01 pm: | |
A CROWN FIND! Sounds GREAT.
A '80 Tandem RE Crown Hi-FLoor. It's an Atomic Energy Crown. That tag may be powered, not a dummy axle. You'd have to look back there, if there is a differential & middle axle it's powered.
I personally would restore it as a bus because of it's rarity. But I've hear they are nice conversions. |
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