| Author | Message | ||
| Peter River (Whitebus)
Registered Member Username: Whitebus Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 204.62.111.51  Rating: N/A |
on a recent trip to walmart, I noticed they now stock synthetic oil at pretty decent price. what is the advantages/disadvantages observed when running with synthetic oil? I know what it's supposed to do, I am interested in the real world first hand experiences. | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 137 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 206.45.93.160  Rating: N/A |
If you have a seal that isn't leaking now but is a little on the weak side it will really start to leak. My opinion is that it is a good product but I won't start using it on an older unit because the leaks will present themselves | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1424 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9  Rating: N/A |
I never found synthetic oil to generate leaks unless you are using a thinner oil than previous. Since I don't know what engine that is in your coach,I can only give generalizations. If it is a Detroit 2 stroke, use 40 weight as specified with the low ash and other properties recommended. They consume too much oil in normal use to use a synthetic for the best economics. If you use some other engine, the 15W40 that heavy duty trucks use would probably be your best bet. They use what gives the best service and maximum engine longevity.Are synthetics beneficial in the quantity that we use? Probably. Cost effective? No. Now, for axles, transmissions, wheel bearings, etc. They would be a better area for use, just like in heavy duty trucks. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 833 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.29  Rating: N/A |
Peter, The vast majority of folks here on this board are running Detroit two-strokes. Not a single motor oil sold at Wal-Mart can be used in those engines, so probably most of us can not give you any guidance about the ones you've found there. I assume your Eurotrans has a Cummins. I would guess Wal-Mart to carry a handful of heavy diesel oils that would work for you, but I am not aware of any synthetics on their shelves that carry the diesel rating. As long as you follow your engine manufacturer's specifications to the letter, you should have no problem with synthetics, and you might find that you get slightly better fuel mileage. You might also increase your miles to overhaul, but that is nearly impossible to measure. The only way to learn whether it will provide enough of an improvement for you is to try it and measure carefully. That said, I would venture a guess that you would not recoup the additional cost of synthetic motor oil over the life of the engine, especially if it has not been run on synthetic since new. Personally, I run synthetic in the transmission and differential, and use conventional oil in the engine. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 648 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.211.121.125 Rating: N/A |
FWIW...there's a lot in the Archives about this subject...some very recent. I use Synthetic in a Dodge Pickup...a pressure washer and then...drop your voice. Follow MFG recommendations is my rule. Do it you way as FF says.  UR Welcome...... ECB | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 877 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.36  Rating: N/A |
Sean, WM sells a straight 30W CF-2 oil that I have used in my 671 during cold weather. I think they call it "Heavy Duty Oil" or something like that and it is in two gallon jugs. | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member Username: Chuck_newman Post Number: 333 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 99.0.41.3  Rating: N/A |
Peter, For many years I worked with a fellow who raced cars every weekend. After every race he would tear down the engine and rebuild. To get the maximum life on the engine's components he tested every oil type and additive known to man over several years of racing. The one thing that resulted in the least wear was synthetic oil with no additives. Interestingly the only vehicle I've ever purchased that specified synthetic oil was my '02 Ford van. With less than 50K miles on it today, it will be a long time before I know if SO will make any difference. That being said, I have read comments from, and talked to several combustion and diesel mechanics. Unanimously, they said the benefits of synthetic oil are many, but will only be noticed on a new or rebuilt engine. And in most cases, it will use more oil due to oil getting around worn (broken in) components due to the greater lubricity of synthetic oil. I'm not into the finer parts of engine analysis, but they all said using SO in an older engine simply is not cost effective. It won't hurt anything, but it won't net you anything for the added expense. | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 155 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.235.190  Rating: N/A |
Be mindful that most synthetics excel differently as they are not all alike, so to make generalizations may be a mute point; unless your going for the best feeling or belief for your buck, then just use the one that had the most appealing advertisements (call it resolving the problem that advertisers created in thoughts) & believe what make you feel "better lubricated". I have used synthetic oils in special applications. Me I will use strait 30 or 40 with the low ash content in my jimmy engine. I have added the "wallymart" brand & it is cheap in Canada (just like there camping fees), but have not found the proper ash content to recommend it as proper for a good jimmy 2 stroke. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 834 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 72.171.0.141 Rating: N/A |
Yes, they also have Rotella-T 30-weight. However, Detroit allows this only for sustained sub-freezing temperatures, and then only if you have a cranking problem and no means to heat the system (coolant or block heater). The stipulation is to change back to 40-weight as soon as the cranking is no longer an issue, even if that is only in a few hundred miles. I suspect very few of us fall into this camp, but I acknowledge that some do. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Jim Wallin (Powderseeker01)
Registered Member Username: Powderseeker01 Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 67.41.113.210  Rating: N/A |
I too have quite a bit of experience racing cars, and we found great results from a NASA designed teflon additive called Tuf-Oil in Dyno testing. We'd run in an engine on the dyno and then add the Tuf-Oil. We would measure an almost instant 15-25 hp increase in power. I have also used it in many street cars over the years and as a result ran an Aerostar van 280K miles and a Volvo for 460K miles. The friction reducing qualities are quite noticable. I'm pretty sure that this could be added to Delo 40/100 without and negative effects and many benefits. The results are comparable to SO without the lower viscosity. It takes about 2 gal for a DD. FWIW Jim- PD4107-627 | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 151 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
I used to change oil in our autos every 3000miles. We bought a 98 Ram and I went to Mobil 1 on 10000 mile intervals. 15-50 we live up North and it sits out in the winter. The cost is almost the same in the end but the convenience of the extended life is priceless. It now has 170000 miles I do not add between changes and it stays in the safe zone till the end. NO LEAKS and very little consumption. A local dump truck co has a half doz. Petes with Cummings they run full synthetic on 25000 mile intervals with good results. I personally use Lucas in our pete (Cat 3406) and the DD and it has increased the pressure by 5lbs all the way thru the oil change cycle, both engines. The cat engine I had used Delvac 15-40 and anyone who wants to have an argument about if there is any oil manufacturer that has a hands down better product bring them on because there is and Delvac is it for a 4 stroke diesel. My opinion is backed up by my personal experience on the road with 900000+ miles on a truck that the engine never needed work upon sale and currently today continues to preform for the new owner. With the results of my habbits nobody could convince me otherwise. Ask a DD tech what oil to run in a 60 series. (Message edited by Joe Camper on April 29, 2009) | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 396 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 70.60.107.86  Rating: N/A |
Joe C said "I used to change oil in our autos every 3000miles. We bought a 98 Ram and I went to Mobil 1 on 10000 mile intervals. 15-50 we live up North and it sits out in the winter. The cost is almost the same in the end but the convenience of the extended life is priceless. It now has 170000 miles I do not add between changes and it stays in the safe zone till the end. NO LEAKS and very little consumption." I have run Mobil 1 "Turbo Diesel Truck" 5W-40 in my VW diesels for the past 200K miles. Oil analysis tells me that I'm getting virtually *no* wear and it's good for 15K or more miles. I have great reservations about running full synthetic oil in an engine that's been running on conventional oil for a while but if I ever have to rebuild my 4-stroke, it will be running on Mobil "TDT" (or 5W-40 "Delvac", which is the same oil, just repackaged). The 5W-40 is Mobil's "full-synthetic", Group IV oil approved to API CJ-4 diesel standard. Not the right oil for a 2-stroke but what looks like a very top-flight oil for a 4-stroke. | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member Username: Chuck_newman Post Number: 334 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 99.0.41.3 Rating: N/A |
Joe, Is Delvac synthetic? How does it's cost compare to Delo 400? Thanks. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1427 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: N/A |
Our local Walmart carries Delvac 1300 series 15w40 and also in the Chevron Delo? in jugs. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 835 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.23 Rating: N/A |
Chuck, Delvac is conventional motor oil, not synthetic. Cost is comparable to Delo. Be advised that Delo 400 is not approved for Detroit two-strokes (sulfated ash is too high); Delo 100 is the comparable Chevron product for the two-strokes. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member Username: Chuck_newman Post Number: 335 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 99.0.41.3 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Sean for the info. Though I have a 4 stroke, I've learned from Ian that only a relatively few post here, but several thousand read this board regularly -- hence it's always good to reiterate that point about ash content from time to time. | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 397 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 70.60.107.86 Rating: N/A |
Sean wrote: "Delvac is conventional motor oil, not synthetic. Cost is comparable to Delo." Not exactly. Delvac 1300 is a "conventional" 15W-40 oil; Delvac-1 is a 5W-40 full-synthetic, Group IV synthetic. I'm pretty sure that there's a synthetic Chevron Delo, too (not sure if it's a Group III like Rotella synthetic or Group IV) and I think it's 5W-40. Shell Rotella "Conventional" can be straight-weight 40, 10W-30 multigrade, or 15W-40 (and perhaps other, less-commonly seen weights); Rotella Synthetic is 5W-40. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 836 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.30 Rating: N/A |
Bruce, I believe Joe said "Delvac 15-40" (I assume he meant "15W-40"), which is conventional. You are correct, Delvac-1 is synthetic. I believe that Delvac-1 comes only in 5W, not 15W. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 398 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 70.60.107.86 Rating: N/A |
Yes, we've gotten the Delvac's straight. And on the subject of synthetic in an older engine, I wrote to Mobil and asked them their recommendation. They replied that it was perfectly acceptable and that they would recommend it but change the first couple of sumpfuls because it tends to clean out an engine. It was nice to hear that from them but everyone who's ever tried it says that you might as well shoot your block with a .357. I'll stick with conventional oil. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 657 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.208.170.156 Rating: N/A |
Me, too..... RCB | ||
| Keith Wood (Ft6)
Registered Member Username: Ft6 Post Number: 104 Registered: 8-2008 Posted From: 75.208.98.50 Rating: N/A |
"My opinion is that it is a good product but I won't start using it on an older unit because the leaks will present themselves" This one gets my vote for "Understatement of the Week." | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 442 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.55.197.237  Rating: N/A |
I had posted on another thread about synthetic oil. I like a lot of you will use it in the tranny,rear axle,wheel bearing and anything that moves, except DD 2-stroke. I ran it in one and the price verses consumption didn't warrant using it there,However I use it in all other applications and have had great results and preformance using it. I rebuild some classic cars and what you will find in my shop is synthetic grease and oil to put back in these cars. I will use it as long as I can. I make sure it is 100% synthetic not blend,as you will waste money for nothing. Gomer | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 661 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.211.248.36 Rating: N/A |
Interesting comment, Marvin ..."I make sure it is 100% synthetic not blend,as you will waste money for nothing". Elaborate. por a favor!.. RCB |