| Author |
Message |
R. TERRY (205.188.209.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 1:52 am: | |
I have to wonder to how many months in jail I would have been sentenced had I been pulled over while driving my new RTS to the DMV. At the end of this experience, contrary to what I thought, I had been illegally driving....CORRECTION!....I hereby DENY that I ever drove a city transit bus with no CDL, no current registration and no valid liability insurance! NEVER HAPPENED!
The inspector at the DMV, as if to accuse me, asked, "Why is that bus sitting there?"
"Well, I am getting it licensed and titled, that's why."
"OK. Now why did you bring it down here? We don't have to see that bus to change it to your name, just go inside and take a number."
"I want an RV plate for it," I declared.
"Has it been converted?"
"No, I just got it; I am GOING to convert it to a motorhome."
And he continued, "But right now it's a city bus."
"No," I said, "I took all the seats out."
"OK, it's a city bus with no seats. Go take a number."
We argued and he called in the supervisor.
She walks out onto the driveway and says, "What's that bus doing there?"
"I want to get an RV plate for it."
"But it's not an RV, it's a city bus."
I tried to explain. She said, "Well, bring it back when it's an RV."
Patiently, I further explained that it usually takes as long as two years to finish a conversion. She said, "Come back in two years. Right now it's a city bus and that's the way it's going to stay."
I told her to wait just a minute while I go bash my head against the wall.
"Can I get a transit tag for it?"
"Sure. Show me your million dollar insurance policy."
"OK, I'll get it. Oh, wait. I made a paper airplane out of it and sailed it out the window. Sorry." So I asked her exactly what kind of plate could I get for that vehicle today. She replied, "No plate. And, please get that bus out of here."
"And precisely where in this parking lot do you want me to park it?"
"Yeah. Never mind; Go take a number."
The insurance card I had in my wallet was for an RV. My driver's license allowed for me to drive an RV. And the temporary permit I taped to the back of the bus was for an RV. Yet it was a city bus that was sitting in the driveway of the DMV and that's the way it was going to stay.
How it got back to my driveway at home, I have no idea. I deny everything!
And that's just the beginning.
R. TERRY |
Jojo Colina (Du1jec) (68.8.173.2)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 2:04 am: | |
What state was this in? Add a portable stove, a mattress and a porta potty. This will make it a motorhome. |
Robin Mills (Robinsturn) (205.188.209.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 2:56 am: | |
Obviously the "state of confusion" lol |
Doug Dickinson (Dougd470) (65.161.188.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 10:14 am: | |
I was expecting that, but wound up with an easy fix in Missouri. There is a Federal Law that defines an RV and most states (every state that I have experienced) has adopted it as part of their licensing criteria (their law). If you do what Jojo says, they have no legal alternative. Officially, I put a porta-potty, a bed, and a sink in the coach, screwed them down (a usual requirement as most versions of the law say "Attached") and registered the coach (I did not have to have a DMV inspection- just the regular MV safety inspection.). THEN I ripped the stuff out and started the full conversion. I did this so that there was no question as to my intentions and I did not have to lie or "elaborate on the truth". The logic here is that once it is an RV by law, it can undergo "renovation" and complete re-build as necessary. As long as it does not beciome something else (like a bus,) it is and remains an RV.
Registering it was not hard. I filled out a legal statement (affidavit) and it was part of the registration process. The coach was inspected (safety inspection) and I requested that it be noted on the inspection form as "RV - interior gutted for renovation" so there is no question. While not necesary, it was handy in case of questions.
My advice to you is to 1) read the law and 2) get a copy of the DMV licensing handbook and read it also. Both are public documents and may be on the web in your state. Knowledge is power! |
dougwoodin (24.170.175.44)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 4:54 pm: | |
I thought that kind of treatment only happens in Florida. Do these people who work for the DMV go to idiot school to be able to work there? |
Ross Carlisle (Ross) (216.107.197.20)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 6:45 pm: | |
When I bought my bus, I had the bus dealer fill out the paperwork as a 1980 MCI-9 motorhome. Since it is a 198 and does not require a title, I could have either used the title that came with the bus to register or just get the DMV VIN verification form filled out by an inspection station. I had a friend fill out the VIN verification as a 1980 MCI-9 motorhome. So far no one has questioned the fact that it is a motorhome.
I have not registered it yet. When I need to move it or take it to someone for something I can't do, I go to DMV and get a 10 day plate for a ....You guessed it....1980 MCI-9 Motorhome. Done that twice so far. I'll probably register it soon.
Ross |
jmaxwell (66.42.92.16)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 3:38 am: | |
Don't know what state your in, but in CA you would simply tell them to register it as a class 12 (2 axle) or class 13 (3 axle) auto. Both classes are designations of a private automobile with bus bodies. You can legally leave 12 passenger seats in it, drive it without a CDL, and haul 12 non-paying passengers. The key here is non-revenue for private use. You don't have to convert it in any manner to an RV and your license fee is based on purchase price with no future requirement of appraisal or anything else. However, if u prefer, convert it. It is still an automobile with a bus body. DMV clerks seem to be a special breed of person, most having high,sloping foreheads, narrow set eyes, grossly over-weight, and all having graduated from grade school after 10 yrs. of attendance. Either that, or they are precious young things that only got hired to give the Supervisors something to look at besides eye charts and test sheets. The above suggestion of boning up on the law is well made, then with firm conviction go to DMV, and when the 1st clown offers unsubstantiated flak, u get right in their face and ask them if they want to deal with u or your State Assemblyman. My experience with them is that if you can cite them section and paragraph they will develop an over-whelmed feeling and see things just a bit more clearly. Ahhh, nothing like educating the public servants. |
R. TERRY (205.188.209.11)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 4:46 am: | |
My friendly DMV agent ("Surely you jest!" "Don't call me 'Shirley'!") got tired of me long before anyone was interested in bringing me up to speed on Arizona requirements for an RV conversion. All I could really find out was that I was not going to get a license plate of any kind under the circumstances and that I needed a Level 2 inspection.
The next day I called an inspector at the Level 2 facility, explained that I needed to know what the minimun requirements were for a bus to be considered converted to a motorhome, and promptly found out that nobody knew. However, I was told that that information was in the busconversion pamphlet at the DMV licensing station where I had been the day before. I was instructed to go back there and get it.
Which I did.
Well, not quite. I held up the ticket line at the DMV for about 12 minutes while the clerk attempted to find someone who had heard of this pamphlet. She had never heard of it; neither had anyone else. They sent me to the main motor vehicles office downtown, the big five-story building next to the state capital.
The receptionist knew exactly what I was talking about and sent me to the second floor receptionist. She, bless her heart, had NO idea what I was talking about; neither did anyone else!
I finally walked out of the main DMV office complex with three xeroxed pages of official information, all of it pertaining to how the State of Arizona legally defines and classifies RVs.
Not one word of it was about bus conversions.
Hey, I want to work for those people! I want an easy job, too!
R. TERRY |
FAST FRED (63.215.235.24)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 5:13 am: | |
"I thought that kind of treatment only happens in Florida"
Maybe for Florida voters theres a problem
(Inability to read & follow any instructions).
But the DMV in Glades County was great, I TOLD the nice lady it was a MH on bringing it into the state and she was happy to take MY WORD , and issued plates instantly .
Even got the vanity plate "GM 4106" with no hesitation , although a new rule precludes antique vanity plates, which was first choice.
Florida , cheap , fast and painless ,
just dont try to vote Republican in Democrat held teritory!
FAST FRED |
Phil (204.89.170.126)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 7:48 am: | |
The reason DMV employees go to "idiot school" is so they can deal with "idiot" customers. The laws they are rquired to deal with are passed by YOUR legislature. Information is available on most states websites as to registration requirements.
Just another "idiot" DMV employee!!! |
Steven Gibbs (12.148.43.6)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 8:35 am: | |
Phil has a good point.
We are slamming a whole "group" of people just because a very few people in that group have a reputation for being rude and uncaring.
This hobby (some say disease) of bus converting is not really widely practiced and I would guess that any given state sees no more than 1000 registrations of converted buses a year. It would be impossible for someone in any line of work to be proficient in every possible situation that may arise.
I experienced a similar situation in Michigan when I began to inquire from the State Police, Sec of State (our DMV) and the Motor Carrier division as to how to get the bus from Virginia to home.
I received lots of conflicting comments however I began to see a pattern that I was able to form a plan with. As far as the original transport, the State Police comment was to make sure I had liablity coverage and to drive in such a way as not to be pulled over. I was able to get a 3 day transport permit from Virginia DMV (an extremely well run office with very friendly and compentent staff, by the way).
With that 3" square card taped to the back of the bus and a faxed insurance binder in my pocket, feeling like the Bandit (in Smoking and the Bandit) or Peter Fonda in Dirty Larry and Crazy Mary, I headed for the border.
Once in Michigan I visited two of our Sec State Branch offices and at the second one found someone who taught me the magic words "change of body style". As it turned out I only needed to certiy that I had created a motorhome by leaving in the restroom, adding a sleeper sofa, and stove.
Then I had to show the original retail price of a 1984 37' motorhome (their where no 40 footers listed in 1984) from a copy of the "blue book" then I was registered and my new title said 1984 MCI Motorhome.
However, even though I have explained this same process (which I observed written in the procedure book the nice lady who taught me the magic words showed me) to another bus nut with an MC9, he has experienced problems and has yet been able to have his bus registered.
Something I learned when I used to seek warrants was that sometimes you have to shop for a judge.
When registering a bus conversion, I suggest planning on spending sometime shopping for a DMV office and hopefully you will find the office Phil (or someone else like him) works in.
And remember the other magic words; Please, Thank-you, Sir and/or Ma'am.
IMHO and FWIW,
Steve G. |
Geoff (64.1.0.62)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 9:52 am: | |
There is another method of getting your bus registered as an RV that I used-- I hired a private registration service run by a former DMV employee who was certified to verify serial numbers. For a $60 fee (plus registration fees) she came out to my house and took all the paperwork, and a couple of weeks later I received a title in the mail with my bus registered as a motorhome (even though I still had all the seats in it). No waiting in line and fighting the system.
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (216.67.211.251)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 1:28 pm: | |
The only trouble I had was the MVD did not give me the "official spec list" until I had taken the bus there. Prior to that, I had made two phone calls and asked what was needed and had followed the letter but it was not to their interpretation. We clashed good humoredly on my "means of cooking" as a gas BBQ and they wanted a fixed stove, etc. However, no cross words were exchanged and I simply asked what "they" wanted to see installed and I returned a week later and had no trouble getting it done.
We did have a problem with the lack of 2 vin#s as RVs have a body and a chassis # after the early 70s sometime. Also, they could not find a value for the mCI, so they used a Thompson school bus and said that Head Office would sort it out..... Yeah right!! It was in my favor anyway... LOL.
I found that asking what "they" wanted and doing that exactly and making an appointment with the same person was the best way. As said before, "please and thank you" go a long way to setting one above the awful people that these employees have to deal with. They do remember you and it holds one in good stead for future visits. I deal with our local MVD office often and always have a smile and a joke with them. If I have a particular sticky problem, "we" always manage a way through to a mutually satisfying conclusion.
Peter. |
Johnny (63.159.194.145)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, October 25, 2002 - 10:58 pm: | |
I've found DMV drones to be universally rude, abrasive, & confrontational. The last one I dealt with barely spoke English. Being greeted with: "Come on, get moving! I don't have all day!" is inexcusable. Being told by a clerk, upon attempting to explain that the instructions on a form are totally incomprhensible (which they are), that "You're obviously illiterate, then," is equally inexcusable. |
CorDaneRTSIIIL (4.17.253.205)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 3:05 pm: | |
WOW, I thought I had the only problems with the DMV here in Abes state, Illinois.
- When I bought the RTS I was soon talking with the Illinois State Police asking about drivers license requirements, they hemmed and hawed, "Uh, make sure you dont have the seats in it when you are driving, an officer may not understand if it has RV plates and full of seats". One other State Police put me on hold and neglected to pick me back up.
- Title was taken care of by a licensed office to help take load off the DMV with no problem.
- NOW THE DMV, as per drivers license requirements was, and is, a different situation.
- I checked to see if I had to upgrade my drivers license to drive the bus. As I read through the book, they all said "except RV vehicles". Checking with the DMV, the answers go from a strange look on their face, like trying to pass an egg, to no changes, to you need a CDL. As i stand there contemplating what the heck they are telling me, I knew from the books a CDL was not required, so I began to get a look on my face like trying to pass an ostrich egg. Several trips later and this has never been resolved. I was told by one bus converter to just drive it, if I ever get stopped, plead innocent. LOL oh my what a great hobby!!
- Even the insurance company had its issues, not to insure but the legal part, the vin on the bus did not have enough numbers for their computer, they need an exact number of digits, and mine didnt have that number. Ended up sending in a copy of the title and let them sort it out.
- Next, the EPA. First they wanted to check the vehicle to verify it was indeed, a diesel motor. NOW they want to TEST the bus emissions. LOL It just gets more fun as we go, wouldnt you say so too. cd |
David & Lorna Schinske (Davidschinske) (64.24.236.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 3:13 pm: | |
Cory,
If your title says that it's an RV then it's an RV. Unless you need a CDL in your state to drive an RV then you don't need one. The weights are there to classify Commercial or For Hire vehicles.
Lorna |
Gene Jorgensen (Geno) (64.12.96.235)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 12:34 am: | |
The Illinois DMV told me that I needed to take the Non CDL test- That would cover me to 26K Lb. which I had put on my License plate app. (pushing it back a little for a MCI 7) I asked if that was the same as a class C and was told that there was no class C (although booklet they gave out stated that there was a class C that would cover you to 26K. So I guess it is a Non-CDL that I need |
Geoff (64.1.0.39)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 7:49 am: | |
What you need is a non-commercial Class B. I posted something about this a day or two ago and it seems to have disapeared along with the thread. A Class C will take you to 26,000 lbs, a Class B will allow you to drive vehicles over 26,001 lbs. A Class B can be either commercial or non-commercial. And like has been previously mentioned, there is usually an exemption for RV's and only a few states require the non-commercial Class B. To add to the confusion California now requires at minimum a non-commercial Class B to operate an RV/bus conversion over 40' long (but don't say anything about weight).
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA |
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