| Author | Message | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 167 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.179.147.233  Rating: N/A |
I have come across some heavy blue plastic 55 gallon barrels (they originally held some kind of medical cleaner) that I believe will make great waste tanks in my bus. laid on thier side they fit nicely in the bay. The question I have is will one of those plastic welders from Harbor Freight work to secure plastic waste valves into the bottom edge of the tank. The barrels are one piece and will not allow me access to the inside or I would make two sided stainless fittings or something. Any ideas? | ||
| Peter River (Whitebus)
Registered Member Username: Whitebus Post Number: 34 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 208.54.14.37  Rating: N/A |
waste plastic 55 gallon barrels are pretty common. The only thing I was thinking is that it would be very heavy when full, and the round shape wastes space when mounted on side. I remember 30 gallon square plastic tanks available at surplus stores years ago, but I can't remember where i saw it. | ||
| Carroll Sasscer (Carroll4104)
Registered Member Username: Carroll4104 Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 72.150.179.121 Rating: N/A |
Just use 2 to 3 inch threaded adapters so the waste valve will work. | ||
| Gary Pasternak (Cessna5354)
Registered Member Username: Cessna5354 Post Number: 66 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 71.255.24.84 Rating: N/A |
If you wish, I have added a link to a 5C with barreled tanks, valves, and supports. www.guycarrier.com/bus/The_Coach.htm My PO installed rectangular tanks which conserve space. Good Luck, | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 168 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.179.147.233 Rating: N/A |
I like the 2-3" adapter idea. Shouldn't be a problem to empty "black water" out of 2" rather than 3"? It shouldn't plug up? | ||
| Jim Wallin (Powderseeker01)
Registered Member Username: Powderseeker01 Post Number: 16 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 67.40.129.84  Rating: N/A |
You might want to check out tankdepot.com They are really reasonable to work with, and the prices are good for quality rectangular tanks with fittings installed. | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 25 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
The adapters are better - it is hard to get a really strong plastic weld when you are good, and near impossible if you are not. The other consideration is if the tank and tubing are poly pro Vs some other plastic - I think you need to match them. If you are concerned about 2" Vs 3", you might try a marine head. Instead of placing the head over a tank like normal RV mounting, a marine head has a macerator pump built in so it grinds the waste and pumps it through a 2" poly flex line to the tank - so the tank can be anywhere. You would be far more likley to be able to drain it through a 2", but still would be a bit of a concern. In boats, the pump-out station is vacuum assisted, so it "sucks" the holding tank empty. | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 169 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.179.147.233 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the good ideas. I already have a stool, and the whole point of the barrels is to try and save some $$$ so I will probably try to find some 2" barrel bung adapters that will go up to 3" pvc for the waste gates. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1438 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9  Rating: N/A |
That use will save money now, however when or if you trade or sell your present conversion to move up, those blue drums will lose you more in coach value to a prospective buyer than the little more that proper fitting and sized tanks would. Of course, that may not be of a concern to you. Those drums are sturdy; I've cut two down for draining antifreeze and other fluids. You should have no problem welding to them. Just determine the type of plastic they are made from and use the appropriate welding rod material. | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 616 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 153.2.246.30  Rating: N/A |
I agree that blue barrels don't look good. However, I think the curved bottoms will drain better. I have seen a Monaco and its tanks had a "V" shape canted so one side was vertical up against a wall. The drain was at the end on the bottom of the V. They drained like a champ. If you get tanks go with tall and skinny so the water pressure and movement will help push out the waste. My tanks were made for a trailer, so they are very flat, and when drained things can settle on the bottom and the water just goes around obstacles instead of pushing them out. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 885 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.101  Rating: N/A |
John, The barrels are too small for waste tanks and the round shape wastes a lot of space. You will need at least two, 55gl is not enough. My waste tank and fresh tanks are 90 gal plastic tanks which I think are farm tanks which were meant to be used on the rear of big tractors for holding spray chemicals. They are a tight squeeze but do fit well. My guess is that one of those barrels takes up almost as much space as my 90gl tank. I'm sure it isn't as high when laid on its side but vertical voids aren't of much use for anything. | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 170 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.179.147.233 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Gus and everyone. I am figuring on using 2 barrels 1 black and 1 grey, so it would give me a total of 100 gals of waste. One of the problems I am dealing with is that I am trying to get my waste tanks and my house batt's into one bay which does not go all the way through. I have transit style doors in the mid on the passenger side, so I am trying to make use of that short bay. The barrels fit nicely and still will give me room to plumb up to the floor. I am figuring on mounting the two barrels on a piece of 3/4 plywood with straps and then sliding the whole rig in and "away we go" (in a manner of speaking) i was going to plumb the intake into the top bung and outlet on the bottom one. | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 617 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 153.2.246.35 Rating: N/A |
Just a note: It takes forever to fill up a black tank compared to a gray tank. Try only using a five-gallon bucket and see how long (If you can stand it.) it takes to fill it up. Also, remember that you will leave some of what was intended for your black tank at restaurants, rest stops, or other places you visit. However, you will most always brush your teeth and shower in your bus. It is not uncommon to have an unfounded fear of filling up a black tank, but the gray tank will be what determines when you dump more often than not. I want to add a system to transfer gray water to my black tank to give me more gray capacity and to help with the black tank clean out. I add water to the black tank when I dump and that’s with eight people using it! How about a thirty gallon black tank and increase your gray capacity? I have a 120-60-60 setup. I wish I had something more like 120-80-40, or even better, 120-90-30. | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 171 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.179.147.233 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Laryn, I had heard some of that before. We have only had a class A that we never stay more than 3 days at a time in so building something that we may spend weeks or months in is going to take some figuring. I am just trying to get by as reasonably ( read cheap) as I can and still be safe and sanitary. Thanks everyone for the input as always. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 677 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.210.217.158 Rating: N/A |
Laryn...depends on how one "sets up" the black... If the black tank is kept "wet"...xtra water to keep stuff floating...not laying on the bottom...then it might, quite possibly "fill up" sooner than one thinks...   . We put lav water in to keep things "afloat"...as it were> From you last paragraph or so, I ass u me you would do the same... FWIW RCB | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 618 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 72.66.171.68 Rating: N/A |
I do. It’s just that short flat tanks require a lot more than other style tanks to achive a good dump. It wouldn’t be good to drop anything on a dry bottom. Pre-charged with water and sloshing helps break things up so not much is recognizable. (Message edited by barn_owl on May 05, 2009) | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 403 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 76.21.223.150  Rating: N/A |
Laryn wrote "Just a note: It takes forever to fill up a black tank compared to a gray tank. (snip) you will leave some of what was intended for your black tank at restaurants, rest stops, or other places you visit. However, you will most always brush your teeth and shower in your bus. The gray tank will be what determines when you dump more often than not. I want to add a system to transfer gray water to my black tank to give me more gray capacity and to help with the black tank clean out. I add water to the black tank when I dump and that’s with eight people using it! How about a thirty gallon black tank and increase your gray capacity? I have a 120-60-60 setup. I wish I had something more like 120-80-40, or even better, 120-90-30." I have some pretty unusual circumstances with my bus. I have a mascerating toilet - I will rig up so that the lav drains into black, too; I like that idea for "extra moisture". My biggest difference to most of you is that I don't have bays or even much under-bus area. And I don't want my black tank inside my bus. So, I'm building a black tank that will hold about 70 gallons (that's all the volume that I have under my bus) and that will be long, narrow and flat. But I'm going to have a 35 gallon grey/"auxiliary" tank which will have to go inside the bus (but in a cabinet normally closed to the bus but open/vented through the floor). And I'll carry the usual 100 gallons of fresh. I have an overflow system; "black material" goes straight to the black tank; sink/shower water goes to grey but when grey fills to full, if over flows to black. So, when my tanks are full, I'll have 70 gallons of black (of which most will probably be overflowed-grey, not that it matters) and 30 gallons of grey. To dump, I'll open my black drain, let it drain about 3/4 of the material and then open a 2" drain from my grey tank into the black tank, flushing it with 30 gallons of grey water. It's a little more complicated than a KISS system, but I think that it should work for me. Anybody see any problems? Also, my long-time friend Gary Throneberry says that he's seen "gummed up" black tanks cleared by pouring in a couple of bags of ice. Then drive around the block a couple of times, hit the brakes when possible to "stir things up", and then dump. BH NC USA | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 309 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62  Rating: N/A |
Just curious but it would seem the simplest KISS system is to have 110 combined black and grey if room is an issue. When we bought our coach it had 100 gallons black and grey dumped on the ground. As you know dumping grey to ground is not acceptable so I just plumbed it into the existing black tank. As long as there is water in the traps there is no odor issue and there is always plenty of fluid to get a good flow going at the dump so what am I missing? | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 405 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 76.21.223.150 Rating: N/A |
Tim, your system sounds like it works great. You get a good cleanout when you dump, you have a good-sized system, and you don't have odors. Sounds good. I wish I had room for a combined 100/110 gallon tank. | ||
| Peter E (Sdibaja)
Registered Member Username: Sdibaja Post Number: 287 Registered: 5-2002 Posted From: 201.143.101.61  Rating: N/A |
another way is to mount the black tank above the gray and make an overflow on the black to run into the gray tank. That way if the black fills up you will have a buffer. My 4905 was set up that way (black at about 10 gallons) and never had the black fill and overflow. I was a full timer for a couple years, worked great for me. | ||
| Bill McMackin (06_bill)
Registered Member Username: 06_bill Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 76.119.44.188 Rating: N/A |
My 4106 has 5 white food grade barrells. Two for fresh & 1 each for shower,grey,black. The waste tanks are plumbed together with valves so a mix and match event can happen if necessary. Other things can be done around all the spaces. 06 Bill | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 173 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.179.147.233 Rating: N/A |
Bill how are the waste dumps plumbed into the tanks? I am trying to find some kind of adapter from barrel bung to PVC, but so far no go. | ||
| Bill McMackin (06_bill)
Registered Member Username: 06_bill Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 76.119.44.188 Rating: N/A |
John: My food grade barrells had 2 large openings 1 of which is 2 1/2" pipe thread if I remember. Easy from there to adapt to RV fittings.06 Bill | ||
| Peter River (Whitebus)
Registered Member Username: Whitebus Post Number: 37 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 204.62.111.51 Rating: N/A |
bill : 5 barrels? 55gal X 8lbs X5 = 2200lbs of possible extra weight, not to mention the hardware. RV's always talk about overloading. Sure the buses have higher load capacity, but is putting that much weight in the bays a good idea, not to mention the thing sloshing around when turning corners or braking? | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 174 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.179.147.233 Rating: N/A |
Pete, not all the barrels would be full at any one time. Clean water, becomes waste water and is emptied. I am figuring on 100 gals of clean and 100 gals of waste. (again neither will usually be full at the same time). That kind of weight is not unusual in a bus conversion that was normally designed for 50 passengers or whatever. | ||
| Peter River (Whitebus)
Registered Member Username: Whitebus Post Number: 39 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 204.62.111.51 Rating: N/A |
good point, I forgot half of it would be empty. | ||
| Dallas (Dal300)
Registered Member Username: Dal300 Post Number: 202 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 75.88.241.188 Rating: N/A |
You also may not know, but hound use to carry a bunch of 8V71 engines in the bays at around 2500 lbs. each. They would drop these off at different terminals and pick up cores for rebuilding. | ||
| Ednj (Ednj)
Registered Member Username: Ednj Post Number: 247 Registered: 3-2003 Posted From: 67.82.204.185  Rating: N/A |
Bigrigger wrote= I am trying to find some kind of adapter from barrel bung to PVC, but so far no go. > > Have you tried McMaster-Carr? P/N = 2045T5 http://www.mcmaster.com/#2045t5/=1rgf2e | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 682 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.212.130.64 Rating: N/A |
Good point Dallas.... Peter...not sure I would do it "that" way....I'd personally put the Grey ABOVE the Black....(gravity)which would allow a "flushing" of the black, which is ALWAYS a good idea, if possible. FWIW. here in the West, we are "blessed with" states that allow grey water in parks and state lands to be dispensed on the ground....feeds the fauna, or whatever. (most of the West is desert or low rainfall)... Point being, it is not always a no no to empty grey water on the ground...as one is parked...(assuming one doesn't "cheat") And...who cares what the tanks look like...are they "on display"? Functionality!!!Mine are on the "main floor"...a long way to drop and "gets it out"! Do it your way....quote FF...(glad to see you "back" FF) RCB | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 887 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.93 Rating: N/A |
You're far better off hooking the two tanks together at the bottom and forgetting about grey and black. The extra water is always good for the black and helps flush it when draining. Hook the two barrels together at the bottom and run your toilet and the overboard drain into the same connection via a couple of Ts. Mine is like this except it is one tank with one T. There is no real requirement to run the toilet into the top of the tank, mine goes to the bottom and works fine. Not only does it go into the bottom but it crosses the complete width of the bus on a very slight slope. This is not supposed to work but it has never given a moment of trouble. I do have some concern about the 2.5" barrel openings though, I think 3' is the bare minimum size but that is only my opinion. I'm thinking here about toilet paper and solids. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 685 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.212.130.64 Rating: N/A |
" I do have some concern about the 2.5" barrel openings though, I think 3' is the bare minimum size but that is only my opinion. I'm thinking here about toilet paper and solids." Yep...without any further comment....Gus comes thru again!!:! RCB | ||
| Peter River (Whitebus)
Registered Member Username: Whitebus Post Number: 43 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 208.54.14.29 Rating: N/A |
how about using a bladder system for water storage? you can put 2 bladders in a box, one for fresh (non potable water) and one for grey. As you use one up, the other one would take up the space. if you can stand the grossness factor that is... (Message edited by WhiteBus on May 07, 2009) | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 892 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.26 Rating: N/A |
100 gal bladders don't fold up into nice neat flat shapes, they are stiff and bulky. | ||
| Carroll Sasscer (Carroll4104)
Registered Member Username: Carroll4104 Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 72.150.190.248 Rating: N/A |
I have been using the pipe threaded opening (2.5"?) to 3" pvc adaptor on first my 4104 and more recently on the MCI 9 for 8 years now without having any problem other than the openings are not at the extreme bottom of the barrells as they lay flat. Periodically I will run clean water in them to dilute the remaining material as much as possible. On the 04 I used one for grey and one for black on opposite sides of the bay with 2 barrells used for fresh also on opposite sides of the bay to balance the load. On the 9 I put in a 100 gal rectangle fresh water. With the barrells laying on their sides, their capacity is less than 55 gal probably more like 45 gal ea. At a price of $5.00 each the barrells are considerablely more cost effective than the $200 gal rectangle tank which has had three of the fittings to fail so far. |