| Author | Message | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 54 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
Hi Folks. I have an '04 and as you know, they are pretty slim on monitoring systems, and my low-air is currently not working. I just bought a 6 tire air pressure monitoring system (Craigslist, new, $90) and it occurs to me it might be better used as an air system monitor. By installing tire valves, I can have low pressure alarms for, say, Main Air, Aux Air, front Bag pressure (I replaced my leveling valves with manual), rear bags, and 2 steer tires. If any of the pressures drop, it will alarm on the dash and tell me which one. Best of all, it is wireless, DOT approved, and easy to install. What do you think - might be a little "modernization" for a good old '04? Seems it would be a great system to use if one were to put in a manual 4-bag leveling system as well. Jim | ||
| Keith Wood (Ft6)
Registered Member Username: Ft6 Post Number: 119 Registered: 8-2008 Posted From: 75.211.94.138 Rating: N/A |
Air is air. You have a great idea. However, your tires are a critical component. If the system is limited to 6 inputs, you might use two for the rear tires (with an air line tying both duals on each side to a single tap). | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 168 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
Beam me up Scotty. I must confess I too have had some ideas that seemed reasonable. Put the sensors on the tires and fix your low pressure warnings correctly. Am I correct in assuming that some buses have had the ride height modified to a manual mode | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 169 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
When they tie the duels togeather air pressure wise with a connecting air line there has to be a device in that line that shuts the air passage off so if 1 tire goes bad it does not flatten the other with it. | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 267 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38 Rating: N/A |
Debbie and Joe You can modify the leveling system on a bus to manual if desired to level it in a campground or keep it automatic with a system the Pete in FL sells. He has both types. The system to separate the rear duals in the event of a blowout is sold by the company I have given the website for. http://www.dualdynamics.com/dualcrossfire.html It will join the tires together for filling and normal use but separates them in the event of a blowout once the good tire drops below 10% of the set pressure. | ||
| Wec4104 (Wec4104)
Registered Member Username: Wec4104 Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2008 Posted From: 68.80.242.72 Rating: N/A |
My understanding of the tire pressure monitoring systems is that they are pretty sensitive to changes. Stated another way, it doesn't take much of an air pressure drop to make them alarm. With normal driving, my dash air pressure gauge can easily fluctuate 20 psi as the compressor cycles. Will a TPM system handle those kinds of swings? | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 170 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 71.239.202.82 Rating: N/A |
Bill we have an 86 Prevo XL and we have the level low that allows us to manually adjust the bus level, I understand how the system was designed to work. I understood what he posted to mean he has ELIMINATED the auto adjustment and now operates the bus in manual while going down the road. Did I misunderstand what he meant to say? As far as connecting a set of duels again I am aware of the feature and without looking at your link I am very confident that product includes the device I described that will seal off the air on a inflated tire when the one next to it goes down. I have Dorian and the alarm goes off when the pressure goes down 10% and it is not adjustable. Your pressure will fluctuate 20 psi NORMALLY. Am I to assume you are under the understanding that the air pressure should always remain at 1 specific pressure? The compressor goes on at 100 and you will see a resulting increase in pressure until it stops pumping, usually around 120 | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1101 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.3.157.139  Rating: N/A |
When you install the PressurePro valve cap, the air pressure becomes the "Base Pressure". Any drop of 10% will cause the alarm to go off. If you take the valve cap off for 1 minute and then re-install (as when adding air to a tire), the new pressure becomes the 'Base Pressure". Are wanting to monitor all the tank pressures or just have alarms on them? To monitor them you could run DOT 1/4" tubing and install gauges. If you want alarms, you can purchase pressure switches that are adjustable and set them to the pressures you want them to alarm at. Jack | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 915 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.5  Rating: N/A |
Jim, I've had my 4104 for four years now and have never felt a need for a low air alarm. The air press gage is so big and so prominent on the panel that I look at it the most. I do plan to hook up a simple red light directly to the low air switch under the driver's seat one of these days. I see no need to go through all the old alarm system, most of which have been thoroughly messed up anyway. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1484 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9  Rating: N/A |
Tied to the air bag system; going over noticeable undulations on the road would cause pressure changes in the air bags to constantly set it off. Those air pressure alarms are available at any truck stop or truck supply location and are inexpensive. Just replace or add these to the important systems. The electronic ones are nice, but just more stuff to go bad over time and then....nobody makes that brand anymore or intermittent false alarms.In Pa., those alarms and warning lights have to work and your idea of the tire sensors are to the best of my knowledge, not approved for your idea of use, except for tires. That doesn't mean it won't work. | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 55 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
Lots of feedback! I did eliminate the level valve completely on my front. After reading lots of posts about people doing the same, the rational being that private coaches do not have 35 people and their luggage on-and-off all day long, and the leveling valves are prone to leaking. Mine is shot. I took the ail line that comes off the aux tank thst went to the old valve, and re-directed it back to the under-driver compartment. I installed a new dryer, filter, regulator, and shut-off valve, 2'nd air pressure guage, and a guage up top at the driver seat, then back to the two front bags. When running, the system is set for whatever stiffness by the regulator and fed by the air system. About 40 psi sets the bus at its normal height, 50 a bit higher, and 30 soft. When I stop, I can shut the valve and it shuts off the bags from the aux so if it bleeds down, by bags stay full. I have had it closed for over a week and only lost 5 psi in the bags. It's simple and safe for now - I have so much work to do, and once I get everything in decent shape, I am probably going to install a 4-bag system As for the Tire Pro, I though I could set an alarm pressure, but if it is set by installing the sensor, then it might not work as I had thought. Guess I should have read all the instructions! I will do a bit more investigating, and worst case, I have a 6 tire monitor, which is a GREAT thing to have! I'm learning so much here, thanks to all you wonderfull and sharing BUSNUTS! Jim | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 916 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.5 Rating: N/A |
Jim, Lots of good info on what you did with the leveling valves. I'm saving it and may do the same thing. Why did you not include the rear bags also? Two questions, What is the purpose of the second press gage? Do you have any way to bleed air other than natural leakage? | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1563 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 98.192.173.82  Rating: N/A |
Gus - "I've had my 4104 for four years now and have never felt a need for a low air alarm. The air press gage is so big and so prominent on the panel that I look at it the most." It's a good thing you live in an area that doesn't require vehicle inspections! Reason I say that is because operating an air-braked vehicle without an audible low air warning device will get your coach red-tagged immediately. And if the inspector's especially strict, you'd have to have it towed to a repair shop - they wouldn't even let you drive it out of the inspection facility! Jim - "About 40 psi sets the bus at its normal height, 50 a bit higher, and 30 soft." Have you actually measured the front ride height to determine if 40 psi is correct? (The measurement is between the axle and the rubber bumpstop - can be done with the steering cranked all the way L or R.) Just checking, because running down the highway with it set incorrectly can, and does, lead to occasional weird handling. BTDT. Be aware too, that the rear leveling valves control left/right listing off vertical, as well as the correct ride height. Oh, and don't forget that while going down the road, the OEM automatic leveling will compensate for a higher crowned roadway, something the manual-only systems won't do. FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1102 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 71.3.157.139 Rating: N/A |
Since you already have the 6 tire system, and your coach has 6 tires?? Why not use it for what it was designed for? Jack | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 56 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for all the input! I started at the front and am working through all the systems and have not gotten to the rear yet. If it is good, I will leave it in tact otherwise I will consider doing it as well. As for the low pressure alarm, I just havent gotten to it yet but I WILL fix it! I was under the impression that the dash guage reads the aux tank, and that the main has to pump to 60 psi or so before the aux starts to fill, so the guage does not read that system, or it just reads it when all is well. Adding a sensor to the main would just be an added monitor. Maybe not a good idea?? The guage after the shutoff reads the bag pressure when the aux is shut off. If the valve were to be on the reg input, most regulators by their design have a small venting hole and they will slowly bleed down on their own, so this way, I can close they system with a minimum of leaking and still see how my bags are doing. When I am done, I hope to have my air system really tight so there are no leaks, but that takes time as you folks know! Jack - I might just have a 6-tire monitor, that's what I bought it for in the first place! As I was driving home, it occured to me it might be a good device to monitor other air systems, and hence the post/question. This is a learning experience. Everything keeps leading to other things - three days ago, I pulled my fresh water tank, replaced my dump valves, painted the bay, and found the big old Lester charger stuck behind the batt box. That started a whold new re-wire project and I am moving it to the "electrical" bay behind the genny where it can be seen and watched. I'm having a great time, but it is a helluva lot of work! By the way, I am putting those 2'x2' 1/2" thick click together anti-fatique floor panels in the bays - they look great, are easy to trim, and keep stuff from moving around. Costco here for $12 for 8 panels. Jim | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 57 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
Oh yea - one of the other reasons I did the air bag change is that it lets me kneel the bus when I park. All I have to do is vent the regulator and it lowers onto the bumpers in about a minute, and I am thinking when I camp, lower is nice. If I do the rear, and tie the bags together, I can have a simple front-to-back leveling system. I was concerned after reading all the old posts about doing side-to-side (4-bag) as I guess the 04 is not comfortable with a twisting motion if it happens - and I love my bus! RJ - is there a good web site you can point me to that gives an outline for a bus saftey inspection so I make sure I am covering all the bases? Jim | ||
| doug yes (Dougg)
Registered Member Username: Dougg Post Number: 88 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 174.131.123.143 Rating: N/A |
Where can we buy the Dual Dynamics that joins the dual tire valves? | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1485 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: N/A |
If you want to monitor the aux system air pressure, get a dual needle air pressure gauge like on the 4905. It has two inputs and two needles, was used on the dual circuit brake system of newer coaches. If leveling valves leak, the new universal replacements are very reasonable and don't generally leak unless bad. If you are leveling a coach at a campsite with separate bag input, the coach body is level and the suspension is in a kilter unless you are doing something wrong. | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 58 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
John, Didn't know there was a dual pressure air gauge - that would be great. And, I didn't know there was a new valve that doesn't leak. Can you point me to a link for either, or both? I am about a week away from pulling the rears and if there was a reasonably priced valve, that would be great as I am pretty sure mine leak. Thanks Jim | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 917 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.66 Rating: N/A |
RJ, My plan is to add a bright red low air press light. I did this on my '60 White truck and it works very well. Those buzzers drive me nuts. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1564 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 98.192.173.82 Rating: N/A |
Jim - "RJ - is there a good web site you can point me to that gives an outline for a bus saftey inspection so I make sure I am covering all the bases?" Yup, right here on BNO, in the Articles Of Interest section - it's a basic detailed pre-trip. For a more detailed DOT-type annual safety inspection, check with your NHP's Motor Carrier division, or meander over to the Gardnerville school district's bus yard & talk to the shop foreman. The CHP has an office in Truckee - might check w/ their Motor Carrier guy there, since CA has some of the strictest coach inspections in the country. As for leveling, I don't think you want to tie the rear bags together. Remember what I said earlier - the rear controls not only ride height, but also port/starboard list. And remember, too, it's easier to balance a three-legged stool. . . Do you have a Maintenance Manual for your '04? If so, you should thoroughly study the air system schematics, as it will help you understand what's going on, at least OEM. If not, then you need to get one ASAP, before you really start tearing things apart and replumbing. "When I am done, I hope to have my air system really tight so there are no leaks, but that takes time as you folks know!" HA! Just a little FYI - I've seen brand new Flxible Metro and Gillig Phantom transit buses sitting in the yard all cattywampus from their air systems leaking down just hours after delivery by the factory. Brand new!! In the case of the Gilligs, less than 250 miles on the odometer!! Brand new, and they leak down. So I have to smile & chuckle at your comment. . . Nice tip on the anti-fatigue floor mats, have to go to Costco tomorrow anyway, will take a look at them. Gus - I understand about the buzzers driving you nuts - think about the poor transit drivers who have to put up with buzzers on their four-way flashers eight hours a day! As I said before, be thankful you're not subjected to DOT inspections! FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 806 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.216.69.160 Rating: N/A |
I have only found the buzzer to be a noise at engine start ,,air up time. 2 or 3 min while you check out the running lights , outside . I was on an early coach built by a truck mfg co., and it had a BIG red arm that dropped down in front of the driver , as alarm. No buzzer tho. FF | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 59 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
RJ, Thanks for the info. I remember reading the Busnuts article and I will revisit it. I have already gone to meet the Douglas bus yard - most thought I was crazy for taking on a 50 year old bus, but the head guy kknew the bus and was really nice. I'll check back with him to see where they do their checks - probably at the yard. Must have been 40 or more busses, so it would seem natural that an inspector would come to them, if he wasn't resident. I understand your comment about leaks, but doesn't mean I can't try to get her leak-free! Thanks Jim | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1489 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: N/A |
Jim, Mowhawk Bus parts carry leveling valves, PLUS many other air system parts. | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 62 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
Thanks John. Just looked them up and will call them tomorrow. Happy Bussin! | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1495 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: N/A |
They are a nice company, although they want a part number on some items and you have to call them. I've had great service and got my DD3's parts from them no problem. |