| Author | Message | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 111 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 69.232.65.139  Rating: N/A |
I have ask this question before, but failed to write the answer down. Where can I find a new 24 volt, 4000 or more watt inverter? Pure sine wave. Thanks, Roger | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 837 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.216.70.120 Rating: N/A |
TRACE , (24V 4000W)really Pri$y , really heavy , but still probably the best of the lot .Can be ganged. The "best" feature to my mind is the ability to use a smallish gen set and since the Trace will add amps as needed start big loads (2 air cond + washing machine?) This will allow one to get a smaller 4KW or 6KW noisemaker and actually run it at 60% + load for a long service life. Bigger aint better if it means an underloaded diesel (gas doesnt care). The same feature allows camping on a 15A house plug , and with a good battery set run 2 airs for much of the afternoon, and make it up all nightcharging. They are very versatile so DA BOOK , is thick and complex. There are newer and lighter , but Im not convinced better than the big old Trace. FF | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1634 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.122.125  Rating: N/A |
I think one of the best features in the Trace 4024 is the ability to control what you are trying to inhale via the shore cord, or back up a small and QUIET generator. When lower power is all that is available, why have the coach inconvenient to use? Load management by way of human means is just another reason for people to be angry at one another in close quarters when someone accidentally turns something on they shouldn't have while on the end of a 15 amp extension cord, the breaker inside the house trips, it's raining out, and your host has gone to bed. Who is the control freak going around commanding everyone else to not turn things on, or making the executive decisions as to what is and isn't going to be powered? Perhaps the designer? pity the passengers... Set the Trace for 13 or 14 amps, depending on the loads or length of cord, and forget about it. I have run a Trace 4024 with a 3000 watt Quiet Yamaha. They just do their jobs, 2 roof airs and an electric refrigerator, the collection of rag tag cast off golf cart batteries are contributing a little, and then the heat of the day is past, and everyone gets caught up in short order, as the Trace has been squeaking power back to the batteries whenever there was a spare amp. Turn off a roof air, and the whole shebang has power to spare. Yes, for maximum A/C locales like Death Valley in summertime, more generator power would be an appropriate design. Yes, a Trace 4024 or equivalent is big bucks, but it'll cost you more to buy a lesser equipped one, get mad at yourself, and then trade up later. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 112 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 69.232.65.139 Rating: N/A |
All very helpful information and very much appreciated. Now WHERE do I get one? Places I've tryed do not sell them. Thanks, Roger | ||
| Bob MacIsaac (Wildbob24)
Registered Member Username: Wildbob24 Post Number: 29 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 74.184.58.175 Rating: N/A |
Here's one on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180314569969&viewitem=&sspag ename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT It's my understanding that this inverter is no longer made, so parts and service may be an issue. But it's supposed to be the best. I've run across several buses using the Magnum energy MS4024 version and the owners were happy with them. Here's one place that sells them, there are many: http://www.wholesalesolar.com/products.folder/inverter-folder/magnum_ms_4024.html | ||
| Ian Giffin (Admin)
Board Administrator Username: Admin Post Number: 1268 Registered: 7-1997 Posted From: 24.239.12.139  Rating: |
Roger, A bus conversion friendly company I would recommend is Wrico International, 541.744.4333, www.wricointernational.com. I am not sure they deal with Trace but may either be able to acquire the line, direct you to a trusted dealer or offer an alternative that they do carry. Ian www.busnut.com | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 113 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 69.232.65.139 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Bob and Ian, Roger If anyone else knows of another source so I can compare prices, I would appreciate it. | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 169 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 206.58.200.38  Rating: N/A |
Highly recommend Dick Wright at Wrico, as above. Inverters, batteries, gen sets, chargers, anything electrical you need can be found there, along with excellant advice and customer service. I have the Xantrex SW4024 unit. Very complex and can do a lot of different things, but in my opinion well worth the cost. Sean Welsh has one too and can chime in on the units features. Give Dick a call, you can't go wrong. Thanks | ||
| Randy Davidson (Rdavidson)
Registered Member Username: Rdavidson Post Number: 20 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 166.217.178.42 Rating: N/A |
I have twin SW2512's that are stacked to gain me 240vac as well as 120vac loads. They are AWESOME. I've been told the entire line of SW's are not being built or supplied. And, there is NO equivelant on the market. Only the Trace (Xantrax) is capable of "supplementing" with battery power to cover your loads when you exceed your AC1 or AC2 limits. It's hard to believe this technology can not be replicated by Magnum or Outback... anyone know why? I've heard that Trace can't get UL approved with the SW series. Something like that. I'm thinking of stocking up on a couple of old units "just for the parts" or replacements. They're that good in my opinion. Randy | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Registered Member Username: Niles500 Post Number: 934 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 173.78.29.189 Rating: N/A |
This Vanner seems to do it all and achieves up to 92% efficiency - there's other options out there - FWIW http://www.vanner.com/client/images/manual_TSC.pdf | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 901 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 70.58.64.85  Rating: N/A |
Yes. The only way to "supplement" power from the grid is to synchronize the output waveform of the inverter to the grid's waveform, in much the same way power generating stations must synchronize before coming on line. Doing this requires three things. First, you have to have an incredibly tight output waveform -- very close to a true sine wave, with no distortion and excellent clocking. Secondly, you have to monitor the incoming grid power independently of any changes your own output might be making, and be able to phase-shift the output waveform to match the input wave exactly. These are complex and expensive tasks, and the only reason they are done at all in, say, the Trace SW series is because that inverter was designed for "grid-tie" (also called "utility-interactive") applications. "Grid-tie" is a system whereby a utility power consumer can install an alternative energy system such as solar, wind, or hydroelectric power, and sell any excess power back to the utility. The electric meter for the property literally runs backwards in this mode. Thirdly, when building a grid-tie inverter, in addition to the waveform requirements stated above, you also need to have a way to make sure the inverter either shuts down or disconnects from the grid instantaneously if the grid power is lost. The reason for this is that, otherwise, your inverter might attempt to run the entire neighborhood, or "island," that has become disconnected from the grid. Grid-tie inverters are thus required to be what is known as "non-islanding." This is important for personnel safety as well as keeping the inverter from overloading. Load-supplementing and anti-islanding go hand in hand, since the only way to supplement loads is to have the inverter output and the grid input tied together upstream of the load. Without anti-islanding, a load-supplementing inverter would back-feed the grid if grid power was lost. Anti-islanding again adds complexity and cost to an inverter. The Trace SW series was originally designed and sold for fixed-use, grid-tie, alternative-energy applications, and it was priced accordingly. At some point, Trace (pre-Xantrex) saw value in bringing this inverter to the additional market of RV/marine, and listed the unit for that application with a slightly different software program. The SW series units, regardless of software, all contain the hardware (electronics) to implement grid-tie, which was their original design goal, and so they inherently have anti-islanding and output synchronization built in. In the RV/marine version, the grid-tie features have been disabled in software, but the waveform synchronization still takes place, and so the "load supplementing" capability remains intact. Xantrex discontinued the SW series several years ago, replacing it instead with the SineWave-Plus series. That model was not submitted for RV/marine listings and is a fixed-use-only system, which does implement grid-tie features. After pressure from several large coach converters, Xantrex brought back the SW series RV/marine models (but not the grid-tie fixed-use models) for several more years. However, none of Xantrex's other RV/marine products support this feature, because they do not share the grid-tie lineage. Magnum does not make a grid-tie product, and so it stands to reason that they have not developed nor invested in the technology to synchronize the output waveform or prevent islanding. Outback's utility-interactive products do have a user-adjustable AC input amperage. I believe these units will load-supplement up to their rated output, but I've never tried -- perhaps someone else here can answer that question. I am also not certain if their grid-tie models are listed for mobile use. Most RV-centric inverter manufacturers (e.g Vanner, Magnum) are not in the grid-tie business and so synchronizing, non-islanding technology will never be in the cards for those players. HTH. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 826 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.210.175.106 Rating: N/A |
Sean...and...  Tell us..."the rest of the story"... (so what is one to do)? Thanx RCB | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 903 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.21 Rating: N/A |
Not sure what you are asking, Chuck, but if the question is what to do about the lack of availability of Trace SW-series units, you have just a couple of choices. One is to ignore the fact that the product is not listed for RV use (with all the legal ramifications thereof) and buy the newer SW-plus model. In addition to lack of listing, this unit has no RV-specific features, and Xantrex cost-reduced it by removing such things as generator starting controls, requiring you to buy an add-on module for that purpose. The other choice is to go to one of the many independent dealers who have made a business out of refurbishing old SW-series units. These units are so popular, and so ubiquitous in high-end coach and yacht applications, that a whole cottage industry has sprung up to fill the void left by Xantrex. I suspect you will be able to get refurbished SW units for quite some time to come. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 829 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.210.221.197 Rating: N/A |
I got one... several years ago. Good inverter! RCB | ||
| K.J. Franklin (Slow_rider)
Registered Member Username: Slow_rider Post Number: 35 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.114.242.225 Rating: N/A |
http://www.newmarpower.com/Inverter_Chargers/Inverter_Chargers.html |
