| Author | Message | ||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 172 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 67.58.201.132  Rating: N/A |
I would like to know is it possible to use a diesel generator to power the electrical things like a/c, tv, fridge, and such while driving and when at a site with power hook up have shore cord pluged in with one of those I dont know what it is call'd it switches power input like on a standby gen when the power goes out. or should i have two fused power switches, one between the gen and panel and one between the shore cord and panel and switch it manualy? Thanks Dave L | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 310 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 70.211.57.30  Rating: N/A |
Hi Dave, It's called an Automatic Transfer Switch. Yes you can stay hooked up to park power while running your generator but, the problem will be that you will have to choose on the transfer switch, which power source will be primary. The primary power will always have power direction. Usually shore power. Good Luck Nick-  | ||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 173 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 67.58.201.132 Rating: N/A |
Nick thanks! there is one part I don't understand what you mean by power direction, and does this switch shut off the gen when I plug the shore cord in and the gen start when the cord is unpluged? Also is the main service diconnect meaning the plug on the shore cord? Dave L (Message edited by Dave_L on June 18, 2009) | ||
| Bob Shafer (Michigander_bob)
Registered Member Username: Michigander_bob Post Number: 66 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 76.221.70.171  Rating: N/A |
I have a manual transfer switch that's operated by a 3 way toggle switch on the overhead console. I can switch between generator or shore even when it's plugged in. Here's a link to a picture. It's in the bottom right. http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww347/Michigander_Bob/My%20Bus%20Conversion/P1010183.jp g I know others that have REAL manual transfer switches called outlets...Yep, just plug into witch source you want. No moving parts or electronics to fail. When I had my 4104 I got a 50A auto transfer switch from ebay for $50.00 for it. | ||
| Wec4104 (Wec4104)
Registered Member Username: Wec4104 Post Number: 51 Registered: 7-2008 Posted From: 68.80.242.72 Rating: N/A |
Dave: Most folks simply turn their generator on/off manually. There are systems that automatically start/stop the generator for you, but these are usually for more complex systems that use an inverter and battery bank. The drawing Nick provided has an electric meter and main service disconnect switch because it is how a circuit would be set up for a permanent building. The schematic also works for what you want to do, just think of the main disconnect switch as your plug. In Nick's comment about "power direction", he is indicating that you have to pick which source of electricity will be the default choice? Stated another way, If the generator is running, and you are plugged into live shore power, which source do you want the transfer switch to pick to power your bus? | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 263 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 24.164.20.23  Rating: N/A |
There is a problem with Nick's drawing in that it needs to be a three pole switch, which also switches the neutral. Thoroughly discussed in hundreds of threads over the years. | ||
| Jim Wallin (Powderseeker01)
Registered Member Username: Powderseeker01 Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 208.68.48.77  Rating: N/A |
Hey Nick, Looking at your diagram, it appears that the ground connections are connected through the transfer switch. I'm pretty sure that in order to prevent a ground fault, the ground connection should only be connected at the source...i.e. generator or the shore power source only. Most transfer switches handle this automatically. Of course I may be mis-interpreting the drawing. I think Sean has a nice tutorial posted that details this topic well. | ||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 174 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 67.58.201.132 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Guys I appeciate the help! Thanks George I thinking of just haveing either Gen or shore power without the use of batteries and inverters. with the gen running of the main fuel tank. Dave L (Message edited by Dave_L on June 18, 2009) | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 889 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 64.55.111.6 Rating: N/A |
Dave, Len is correct in his comment about the necessity of a 3 pole switch, instead of the two pole drawn. Its OK to have all of the grounds bonded together, but the ground/neutral connection must ONLY occur at the power source, whether it is the inverter, generator, or shore power main panel. Problems occur when the generator has the ground and neutral connected internally, (which is common) or a 120/240 Volt appliance such as a drier or built in range has its ground and neutral connected inside, to ground it thru the neutral, when no ground wire is present, as in older homes. Then you ground it properly, and the ground and neutral are connected AGAIN. This is probably more info than you wanted, but anyhow. If we get REAL picky, there is no ground/neutral connection shown at the meter/main panel. I know Nick knows better, he just grabbed an incorrect drawing! My suggestion would be the Trace SW4024 inverter, or an equivalent. Their new model is called a Prosine. These inverters will properly switch your power from shore to gen automatically, charge your batteries, and help out low power park sources. This was just covered ad nauseum in the thread "real dummy question about electricity," which has the positive suggestion on how to properly make a manual transfer setup with plug and receptacles. G (Message edited by george_mc6 on June 18, 2009) | ||
| Nick Badame Refrigeration Co. (Dnick85)
Registered Member Username: Dnick85 Post Number: 311 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 76.124.92.192 Rating: N/A |
Hi Guy's, Yea, that's a bad diagram.. I apologize. I just couldn't find a better one and my scanner is not working for me to draw it out. Maybe Sean has a diagram he can post. George is correct, the nutral from the suppling power needs to bond to the load. That is why they use 3 pole contactors for the switching. Nick- | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 899 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 70.58.64.85  Rating: |
I'm sorry I don't have a better diagram. My own setup is a bit more complex, so the diagrams I made are not really pertinent. The salient point is that it needs to switch the neutral along with the hot(s). Grounds are always connected through and never, ever switched. To speak to the OP, I'd like to suggest you pick up a copy of George Myers' book, Designing Electrical Layouts for Coach Conversions. It is available right here on this web site, at the following page: http://www.busnut.com/epicconversionsupport.html This book will answer many of your electrical questions, and help you to design a safe and reliable installation. You must not use two switches or breakers to switch between shore and generator unless they are equipped with an interlocking mechanism to absolutely preclude the possibility of both being closed at the same time. However, there are manual transfer switches, along with the tried-and-true method of simply equipping the generator output with a receptacle into which you plug your shore cord whenever shore power is unavailable. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 214 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 208.81.157.90  Rating: N/A |
Our old bus has a plug from the panel that either plugs into the genset or the shore cord which has a receptacle on the bus end. When I get ready to roll I just unplug both ends of the cord, stow it, plug the panel into the genset and good to go. Have to go outside to change to genset but it is pretty much fool proof. I do make it a point to unplug the pedestal first to avoid being a ground return for the park as the receptacle on the other end of the cord is metal. Don 4107 (Message edited by Doninwa on June 18, 2009) | ||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 176 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 67.58.201.132 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Sean good advise on the book there are a few there I think I will order. I think it will be better than the Ontario electrical code book i have. I refer to it most of the time as it is illistrated also for my wireing. Dave L (Message edited by Dave_L on June 18, 2009) | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 928 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 12.189.32.56  Rating: N/A |
David, My setup is almost the same as Don's, stone simple and eliminates switches and relays. The only difference is I keep the gen plugged in while moving in case I want to start it. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 821 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.209.177.27 Rating: N/A |
Transfer switches....Ronthebusnut.com...got mine there several years ago...never a problem..good price...lots of "help" if needed.  And I agree with Sean...George Myers....good stuff. Where are you George? FWIW RCB (Message edited by chuckllb on June 18, 2009) (Message edited by chuckllb on June 18, 2009) | ||
| Bob Shafer (Michigander_bob)
Registered Member Username: Michigander_bob Post Number: 67 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 76.221.70.171 Rating: N/A |
George is hosting one of his annual rallies in Dayton Ohio right now. He does have some great books. Dave, Ed Roelle and I are hosting a joint bus rally with GLCC/CCO in Flint Mi mid August. If you can even make it for just a day it is the best place to learn about converting buses. We should have between 30-40 coaches and we have many Canadians in our clubs. My email is in my profile if you want to know more.... | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 823 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 70.210.175.106 Rating: N/A |
Thanx, Bob...wish I could be there for many reasons.... RCB | ||
| Chris Peters (Chris_85_rts)
Registered Member Username: Chris_85_rts Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 70.118.24.231 Rating: N/A |
I prefer KISS. I have a plug from my genset in the bay I store my shore cord in. I unplug from the shore power, coil up the cord, and plug it in to the genset. No transfer switches, no relays (contactors) no three pole switches. Simple, foolproof, and cheap. (Message edited by chris 85 rts on June 27, 2009) | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 867 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.216.70.120  Rating: N/A |
Simple, foolproof, and cheap. And very unlikely to be put out of service by a coach that starts his noisemaker and attempts to power the campground, or even by a nearby lightning strike. FF | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 834 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.209.58.85 Rating: N/A |
I have never been sorry about installing a transfer switch...not a ten dollar bill, but very much worth the added expense. FWIW RCB (Message edited by chuckllb on June 27, 2009) |
