| Author |
Message |
Michael J Ryan (Mjryan) (67.41.239.140)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 8:20 pm: | |
This a question to all who have looked at, studied, or converted a transit bus, namely a
Grumman/Flexibe 870 Highway/City bus 40' long 102 wide. How big are the bays under the bus, if any, or do you have to make them? If the latter is the case how big can these be? I am buying an converted 4104 but this looks like a nice bus to start my own convertion while I have fun with the other.
Mj |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 11:29 pm: | |
Michael -
Having worked as the Training Supervisor for a transit agency that had 48 of these things, I would frequently take a class of new trainees out to the shop and have the techs put one on a hoist so they could see what's what underneath.
Basically, there are NO bays under the bus, except for the battery tray on the driver's side in front of the rear axle. You would have to build your own, and they would be small, from the rubber rub rail to the bottom of the panel.
The rear suspension uses a huge "A"-shaped swing arm that attaches to the rear of the fuel tank. You cannot move the tank - it's part of the "frame" of the bus, and because of the suspension's design, there is precious little room for bays behind the fuel tank - maybe one small one by the rear door is about it (on both sides). Translated: about 12-15 feet of wasted space. . .
You do have some room between the fuel tank and the front suspension, but not much, especially if the unit has an air starter.
Other oddities of the Flx Metros:
The sidewalls and ceiling/roof are made of an aluminum/foam/aluminum sandwich, and are literally glued together at the top and at the floorline. The floor is the main "frame" of the bus, and it's just 3/4" plywood. They are a nightmare to do major bodywork on - ask any transit agency's body shop personnel. . .
The powertrain cradle, along with the fuel tank, are two major components that hold the bottom of the coach from "splaying" outward. You must use a special ($$$$$$$$$$$$) jig to hold the body together when removing the powertrain cradle - unless you're junking the vehicle. . .
The driver's seat and foot controls are on a platform that is suspended from the ceiling, and has precious little room for a driver much taller than 5'10".
99% of the dashboard is plastic, that, when "retired" from transit service, is badly cracked beyond repair, and frequently must be completely rebuilt.
On a positive note, they do have a long wheelbase, and the rear suspension's long swing arm contributes to a very nice ride - altho they do lean WAY OVER when going around a corner - so much so, that if you're not careful, you can actually flip the rear leveling valve arms over. . . makes the bus do WEIRD things, and the shop doesn't like it very much, either!!
They do make good donor units for 6V92 / V-730 engine swaps, however. . . which is all I'd ever consider one for, based on my experience with them.
HTH,
RJ
PD4106-2784
Fresno CA |
Michael J (Mjryan) (67.41.239.140)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 1:41 am: | |
Thank you RJ for the inside information. I will heed your words and stay clear except maybe as a donor coach to upgrade my 4104 but that's way to much work. Are the RTS's good for a convertion? They sure look nice when done right. I don't want to open a can of worms here, just wondering.
Mj |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 1:52 am: | |
Personally, I prefer a highway coach, but if you're going to convert a transit, the RTS is probably the best candidate, followed by a Gillig Phantom.
There is a whole group on Yahoo dedicated to the RTS - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RTS-bus-nuts/ is the link. You may have to go thru the sign-up routine to access the group, but it's fairly painless. Lots of good reading, photos, opinions, etc.
HTH,
RJ |
Scott Whitney (66.82.9.31)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 10:18 am: | |
I have a transit bus which is partly converted. Spent hours and hours crawling around under the thing, with the entire floor torn up, welding up truss work for propane, tanks, genset, storage etc. In the end, I have pitifully small storage compartments. (Way better than a small RV, but nothing compared to a highway coach)
I would not do a transit again - except maybe, if I really fell in love with an RTS where someone else had already done a fine conversion. If I convert another bus, it will be a highway coach with BIG bays. (Eagle, 4905, MC9 etc.) I never imagined how much full basement storage space would be so important to me. The market has changed a lot in the last few years. Anyone (who can afford to do a conversion) can afford a highway coach now. Even cheaper to just buy one already converted!
Scott |
Geoff (64.1.0.168)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 10:57 am: | |
I have two full width bays in my RTS-- around 60"x20"x90 something. Short, but usable. What I lost in bay height I gained in ceiling height--6'8" with a flat floor. There are trade-offs in any bus you end up with--so I have a trailer to haul my big stuff in!
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA |
Geoff (64.1.0.168)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 11:53 am: | |
I forgot to mention that the two bays I listed above in my RTS are for storage only-- I have two other bays that contain my holding tanks, house and coach batteries, Webasto, propane, and water filter along with the fuel tank and air tanks. So my 2 storage bays are as big in square footage as an intercity coach that takes up two of three bays with conversion equipment and tanks.
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA |
jmaxwell (66.42.92.23)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 12:58 am: | |
My Grumman has 96"x96"x17 underneath, all open, which I built between the front bulkhead and the fuel tank. As Geoff says, there are trade-offs on any bus. The Neoplan I'm doing has huge bays but almost 1/2 of it will disappear after I get done putting in system stuff, gen set, etc. The Grumman had "pockets" all over for this and that, whereas the Neoplan had the bay area, period, much the same story with any inter-city |
Johnny (63.159.126.40)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 5:09 pm: | |
I'm a long-legged 6'1", & I had no driving-comfort gripes about the Flx I drove (1980).
The rest of the design (plywood floor, aluminum-foam shell, structural fuel tank) makes me wonder what, exactly, the designers were THINKING! |
RJ Long (Rjlong) (24.127.74.29)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 6:17 pm: | |
Johnny - how much TIME did you spend behind the wheel of that 1980 Flx? Was it just a few minutes, or several hours?
RJ |
Frank Zsitvay (207.173.124.173)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 8:36 am: | |
The designers of the Grumman were charged with designing a bus to meet the new ADB requirements and be as cost effective as possible. Hence the design funnies. Some people like them, others hate them. Not unlike AM Generals or Flyer D series coaches.
There are lots of tradeoffs between highway and city coach. It matters only to what you can live with. |
Keith Kroeker (Keith) (65.33.37.243)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 11:37 am: | |
And a matter of what you can afford at the time you purchase your chassis.... When converting on a shoe string.. Its easier to live with the oddities of a Flx or RTS than to have to purchase an older intercity with parts problems and a rusted out rear end. When you find an exceptional deal on a transit.... It makes the oddities easier to live with. Besides, in my case, this is my first conversion and there's a real steep learning curve. I do plan on converting an Intercity a little closer to retirement when I have more time and money to play with, but for now the Flx is great! |
|