| Author | Message | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 841 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.210.47.135 Rating: N/A |
Having recently disemboweled a cat, (crawled into the fan enclosure) I replaced the original fan, which had been reduced in size (to the hub!!!) with an International fan, same size as the original (prior to disembowelment)-- 12 inches. The engine is mounted amidships, pancake style, a Cummins 220 turbo., the Radiator is mounted along the driver side in line with the sidewall of the coach. The fan is mounted just to the left front of the engine in an enclosure, perpendicular to the radiator; draws air thru with opening and closing of automatic vents. Vents are functioning as designed. On a 1000 mile trip to the mountains, the temperature ran a consistent 15-20 degres hotter than ever before...and reached as high as 240 several times....on straight roads, on hill climbs and at +65 mph speeds. Lower speeds would cool it down quickly. In eight years, the temp had never reached 200...(same trip routes and roads) I question if the fan has the correct "pitch" on the blades and if possibly there is a proprietary type fan for the configuration described. The local Heavy truck parts department shrugs their shoulders at the comment. Any ideas?  ...please? Thanx, RCB | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 78 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 71.139.244.152  Rating: |
Same direction? As in, is the fan you installed designed to move air the same direction as the one you removed (gutted)? As far as proprietary goes, other than fitment (holes, size/location) the only other thing is diameter and number of blades, then possibly pitch. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 902 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.171.79.185 Rating: N/A |
Chuck, Dave just said it all, there isn't anything else left. I'm having trouble with one 12 inch diameter fan being big enough, could you have meant radius? If the new fan was designed to turn in the opposite direction, it will now try to pull hot air from the engine compartment, and push it thru the rad. Pushing air doesn't move as much as pulling it, not to mention it needs to be cool. Blade count, & PITCH! There are 5 complete Crowns in GOOD shape that just moved from a wrecking yard in Elko to one in Battle Mountain, Nevada. On the East side of town, North of the tracks, and I 80. 10 wheelers, with stacks up the back to the roof. HTH, G | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 842 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.210.47.135 Rating: N/A |
Yep, George...radius...sheeesh.... too early in the day, I guess. I had considered the direction thing, but since the original blade was completely destroyed, I had no comparison on which direction the blades were tilted. I find little reference in my manuals, but this is just the beginning of my "research". For whatever reason, methinks it has to do with pitch. Thanx for the heads up on the Crowns. RCB | ||
| Larry Higuera (Larryh)
Registered Member Username: Larryh Post Number: 44 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 148.78.52.145 Rating: |
Chuck, at Idle take a piece of typepaper and hold up against radiator and see if fan is sucking in or blowing out. If blowing out remove fan and turn it around and see if it pulls air in then take for a drive and watch temp gauge it's a common mistake. LarryH | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 129 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.193.218.82 Rating: N/A |
Back in the 70's cat dozers had fans with blades that you could rotate 180 degrees with a special tool, (basically a small diameter pipe with a slot cut into the end that fit on the end of the blade) so that you could push the air thru the radiator during the summer or pull it thru in the winter. Open cab, so this was your "heater" for the operator in cold weather. Usually a pain to do because of dirt/rust and because of lack of use. Also had only one place for the tool to fit into, so you had to rotate the fan by "bumping" the starter until each blade was lined up in the right spot for use of the tool. | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 207 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232  Rating: N/A |
...close examination of the old hub ought to indicate the original pitch , number of blades but not the maximum width of each blade foil or surface area, nor true blade length that dictates how close to the shroud the blades tips were on the original.Did the disintegration of the old one distort the shroud ? It all adds up, just as the pulley diameter dictates the speed (if it had one, never been up close on a crown, yet). Drive in the cold of night until your fixed up proper. ...all nine lives at once, poor stupid thing ! Had one friend that had such a bad stretch of this kind of cat problem ( it gets cold up hear) he got into the habit of banging on the hood before he got into a vehicle. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 904 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 76.171.79.185 Rating: N/A |
Turning a fan 180 doesn't change the airflow direction. But having it on "backwards" will lessen its effectiveness. G | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 191 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.60 Rating: N/A |
The "common mistake" is thinking you can reverse the direction of a fan by turning it around.>>>Dan | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 843 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.209.116.46 Rating: N/A |
I understand there is a "right" and a "left" in fan operation...that, of course could be the problem. This one is a "right". Clint...as I stated, the fan was destroyed, to the hub...0...nothing....nada...and at this juncture, it has long been "thrown away". I attempted to do as you suggested, but had nothing left to put to useful purpose. If the fan was as old as the coach.. (1964)...could be... it does not take much imagination to see why it disintegrated. Looked to me like the old plastic stuff, coarse, grainy, and somewhat brittle...forgotten what it was called. Plexalite or whatever. The way the new International fan is made, it cannot be put on "backwards" in my configuration...looks like it will need to be a complete new one. Anybody need a 11.5 inch (had to cut it down to fit precisely in the enclosure) radius International fan (6 bolt pattern)? Thanx for the responses...keep thinking about it! RCB | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 946 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.93.50  Rating: N/A |
Re: "I replaced the original fan, which had been reduced in size (to the hub!!!) with an International fan, same size as the original (prior to disembowelment)-- 12 inches." If the pitch or speed isn't displacing the air at the same amount and volume as the old OE one, then it's almost a no-brainer. Too much of a pitch can slow the motor down, reducing the air flow. Was the International blade designed for a more powerful motor to drive it? Of course, we're assuming that the system has been bled, and full to capacity (including the AUX heat system).. | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1295 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 74.47.99.20 Rating: N/A |
And what about part of the cat still in the radiator, clogging up fins? Might cut the airflow enough to give you overheating. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 848 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.210.101.19 Rating: N/A |
As for the radiator being clean...good point and I had not totally addressed that...thanx, Tom. System had been serviced last fall, bled,full, etc. The radiator being full is one of the first things I looked at. However, JTNG...your question re proper design has been a "quandry" to me since I first saw it. Can't help but think that IS the problem. You Crown Pancake guys listen up..if you have a pic of a Cummins set up as I originally described, send it to me, will you please?...also your input. Thanx, RCB |
