| Author | Message | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 357 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226  Rating: N/A |
How many turns of the steering wheel does your 4104 have from lock to lock? (all the way left to all the way right) Mine is about 8 full turns. How centered is it? How many turns of the steering wheel from the wheels being straight to each side? I find mine to be off center by one full turn of the steering wheel. 3.5 to the left and 4.5 to the right. It has always been this way as long as we have had the bus. The P.O. doesn't seem to have ever noticed during the 20+ years he had the bus. . | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1657 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.69.143.82  Rating: N/A |
There have been mechanics over the years who have somewhat mistakenly thought biasing the steering box to the right side was "helping" the drivers make tighter right turns. Trouble is, it is at the expense of turning to the left. I expect your bus turns a tighter circle to the right than the left. It may also have been set up that way to move the box away from the worn gears in the centre. Or, whoever put it back together last time was negligent in reassembly and just threw it together without checking. If it doesn't cause you any grief, maybe just leave it alone until you have to have any work done? happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 358 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
Funny thing... My bus final inspection sheet does not show it was built with power steering. SO, I am thinking that someone added it at a later date. After looking at the drawings in my manuals (maintenance and parts) it looks like they cut and welded the non power steering drag link tube to the booster cylinder extension tube. The power steering Extension Tube and End assembly is shown as straight in the manuals. The NON power steering Drag Link has curves in it and no adjustment at the end out by the wheel. On my bus the "Extension tube" is curved and does not have the adjustment at the end out by the wheel. It looks like a combination of the two pieces. To be honest, I thought that my extension tube was bent. Until I looked at the drawing in the manuals. I guess that I can adjust the Drag Link on the Booster Cylinder to center it out. Do you know if they have rebuild kits for the end assemblies? OR do I have to buy the complete part if mine are worn? . (Message edited by zimtok on July 22, 2009) | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 274 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 24.164.20.23  Rating: N/A |
Since it's been boogered up by unknown people with unknown abilities, I would first have it looked at by someone who does know what they are doing. A change that might not have been done is in the bevel gears in the column. They are different for power and non-power steering. If the bus tracks straight and you are happy with the steering, I wouldn't touch anything. A good handling 4104 is a rarity. Len | ||
| Dallas (Dal300)
Registered Member Username: Dal300 Post Number: 214 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 75.88.200.218 Rating: N/A |
You might want to check with John Rigby ... He's got a couple of running 4104's that he's gonna part out. Maybe you could snag the parts you need there to make it correct? | ||
| ned sanders (Uncle_ned)
Registered Member Username: Uncle_ned Post Number: 64 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 74.235.32.161 Rating: N/A |
Len You will have to come by "HUGGY" at jacks rally and drive one. A good driving 4104 uncle ned | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 134 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 99.199.160.47 Rating: N/A |
Austin i just saked your question to an OLD greyhound meck. out of Ontario where he worked for 38 years and he said that they set up a lot of the buses that way to turn sparp to the right as that is where it comes in real handy. he said if it is not broke donot fix it just paint it. what type of power steering is it ross or shepard? | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 969 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.84  Rating: N/A |
Len, My understanding of the 4104 steering is that is strictly a manual with an added-on hyd boost. Without the boost it is a normal manual system as when driving on a straight road. Mine feels that way too, it gets easier as I turn it more. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 563 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.155.14  Rating: N/A |
Dallas; If you can get a hold of John, I still need an air assit unit to go on my 04. I only need it when I stop and start.LOL Gomer | ||
| Frank Radosti (Frank4104)
Registered Member Username: Frank4104 Post Number: 33 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 64.80.137.250  Rating: N/A |
my 04 seams to pull to the right going to have the front end checked? power steering is not a sheppard type. can you also post the guy who's parting out the 04's looking for the g m emblem and front left and right marker lights.Thanks Frank | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 359 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
Mel, I'm not sure if it is Ross or Shepard. It is exactly like what is shown in the 4104 Maintenance Manual, with the exception of the extension tube. It is Manual steering with a Booster Cylinder as Gus mentioned. Dallas, I have contacted John about the extension tube. I have also contacted Luke at US Coach about the adjustable ends. The bus runs straight down the road if the road is flat, it wanders a little on uneven roads, and there is "play" in the steering. I'm not opposed to having it turn tighter to the right then the left, but I need to get some of the "play" out of the steering so I can get as tight a turn both ways as possible. I often have to get into tight places, and I have a new neighbor that parks on the street reducing the usable road width approching my driveway. (he has 2 cars and parks one in the street, I have a car, truck, motorcycle, and a bus and NEVER park in the street) . | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 135 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 99.199.160.47 Rating: N/A |
hope you get lucky like the fellow here in town who yeld about the cars on the street but to no good, then some kids that played on the street started letting the air out of the tires on rainy hights. now all the cars and pickups are parked in the drive ways which ruined the kids fun,some people even got a laugh out of the yelling while tire were being aired up and the kids got the street back. they only took out the valves out of the stem and left them on the ground and never harmed a tire. it became the local joke and even the people that got flats laughted about it later but never park on the street again. | ||
| Dallas (Dal300)
Registered Member Username: Dal300 Post Number: 215 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 75.88.200.218 Rating: N/A |
Gomer, John is on the other board and goes by Johns4104s Don't mix him up with another guy that goes by Johns4104. He is somewhere near Chicago the last I heard, fixing some broken studs on his MC9 | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 970 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.19 Rating: N/A |
Austin, Email me off board and I'll send you my method of taking the steering play out. It isn't really hard to do, just a bit hard to get to. I got mine down to about one inch at the steering wheel rim. I essentially used the method described in the Maint Manual except I didn't jack up the front wheels. I don't really like getting under the bus with both front wheels off the ground. Briefly, what I did was adjust it a small amount at a time until it got tighter. If you adjust it too much it will bind at the full R/L positions. | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 360 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 216.37.73.226 Rating: N/A |
Gus, Your e-mail in your profile is hidden... You can e-mail me at zimtok@hotmail.com . | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 79 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.59.152.237  Rating: N/A |
Gus, I'd love to see that method of yours as well. I have about 3" of slop at the steering wheel & I always thought I was lucky to only have that. My email is in my profile... Thanks Gus... Jamo | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 378 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.157.8 Rating: N/A |
I too have mine down to 1 inch but it took new u joints in the steering driveshaft, rebuilding both the big box and the right angle box. Oh, and I had the spline section of the steer driveshaft replaced. It was worn sloppy. By the way, "Da Book" calls for "00 grease" for the boxes. I had trouble finding it but found you can buy it in squeeze tubes at a good lawn mower shop. They use it in the right angle mower deck gear boxes. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 973 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.22 Rating: N/A |
Since more than one person wants this I'll just post it here even though it is a bit long; The adjustment in the box is basically a tapered pin going down into a worm gear. When you screw the pin down it fits tighter into the gear.If play is more than 2-3" you can probably get away with a quarter (90 degree) CW(Viewed from the top)turn for the first adjustment. The grooves in the worm gear are smaller in the center for wear purposes since the wheel is centered most of the time, this is where the "Highway slop" problem usually exists. I made this adjustment on my 4104 in two increments and it is like I have new steering but I never had more than 3" at the steering wheel rim. The adjustment is easy, the hard part is reaching up to the top of the gear box and keeping your tools in position. The adjustment is a slotted pin inside a nut (I think the nut takes an 11/16" box wrench) on the top left (Driver) side of the steering gear box. You have to jack up the front axle a bit (Don't forget to put a block at the axle rubber bumper to keep the suspension from collapsing on you) to get to it. Loosen the nut while holding the pin with a thick slot head screwdriver to keep it from loosening more Turn the pin right(CW) (It will be left(CCW) as viewed from the bottom) 1/4 turn. Tighten the nut slightly. Check the steering wheel. It should reduce the play at the rim quite a bit. If there is less than 1-2 inches of play remaining turn the pin again only about 1/8th of a turn. If more than 1-2", try another 1/4 turn. Once you get it down to about 1" of play at the steering wheel rim turn the wheels from full L to full R to make sure there is no binding. Since the most wear is at the center of the worm gear it can bind at the full L/R positions since the gear does not wear as much there. If you get it down to 1" with no binding drive it to check for binding. If OK try another 1/8 turn and again check for binding - better a bit too loose than too tight. Mine is down to less than 1". I solved my gear box oil leaking by using grease instead of oil. It made the steering much easier also. Don't do this if your box is part of the hydraulic system!! If you have any more questions email me at; egusDOTcATcenturytelDOTnet. As Jim noted, this only works well if your shafts and U joints are not too loose. | ||
| Peter E (Sdibaja)
Registered Member Username: Sdibaja Post Number: 304 Registered: 5-2002 Posted From: 201.143.188.217  Rating: N/A |
when I was a kid an old timer showed me how he would set the steering off center a little bit to get away from the wear in the box: the gears in the steering box can get worn enough to make a bit of slack... (many miles are spent with the steering wheel nearly "centered" and just a few off center) Of course, everything else needs to be in good shape and the box properly adjusted. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 978 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 208.54.200.74 Rating: N/A |
Peter, New worm gear grooves are smaller in the center to allow for that extra wear. It takes a long time to wear them down to the size of the outer grooves at which time you can then adjust the pin. It would appear to me that the pin would be made softer than the worm gear because it is so easy to replace but I don't remember reading that. |