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FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
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Username: Fast_fred

Post Number: 886
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 76.195.78.219


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Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 6:40 am:   

From another board , here is an interesting problem.

FF



My pricey Northstar AGMs lasted only one season and just had to be replaced. I chose another brand of course.

Northstar claim that my Xantrex MS2000 set to AGM mode wrecked the batteries because the Xantrex float voltage is 13.45v and not adjustable, whereas the Northstars require 13.62v. Hmm - a little over one tenth of a volt difference is critical? Therefore it's my fault the batteries are wrecked so not covered under warranty. I realize that AGM batteries need special parameters to be charged properly, but shouldn't the very expensive MS2000 charger's AGM mode suffice?

Boat Electric in Seattle say they never install a Northstar without adding a nanopulser "shake the sulfation off" gizmo. This is a red flag to me that Northstars are VERY prone to sulfation. Anyone else have Northstar battery problems?

Jeff
John MC9 (John_mc9)
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Username: John_mc9

Post Number: 954
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 74.162.82.80


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Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 6:58 am:   

How about a link to that board, so those interested can read the follow-ups?
Cullen Newsom (Cullennewsom)
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Username: Cullennewsom

Post Number: 110
Registered: 2-2009
Posted From: 98.201.161.214


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Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 11:48 am:   


quote:

Northstar claim that my Xantrex MS2000 set to AGM mode wrecked the batteries because the Xantrex float voltage is 13.45v and not adjustable, whereas the Northstars require 13.62v. Hmm - a little over one tenth of a volt difference is critical?


Probably not, and typical a DMM in the field is not so precise or accurate. Sounds like malarkey to me.

quote:

Therefore it's my fault the batteries are wrecked so not covered under warranty.



How convenient. Sound like the sort of folks that will stall you until you are past the warranty date.

quote:

I realize that AGM batteries need special parameters to be charged properly, but shouldn't the very expensive MS2000 charger's AGM mode suffice?


Did the Northstar batteries come with some sort of warning that only the Northstar charger has the right magic, and charger precision has to be ~~1%? And that all bets are off if you use other heathen chargers that lack the patented Northstar mojo? And yes, I would expect the Xantrex charger to do what it says it will do. Have you contacted Xantrex about it? What do they have to say? If there really is some sort of issue there, they might eventually be badgered in to releasing a firmware upgrade for it.

Is this the thread?
http://ssca.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5226&start=15
Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member
Username: Jerry_liebler

Post Number: 347
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 71.30.199.162

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Votes: 1 (Vote!)

Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 6:21 pm:   

Fred,
Something isn't right about this! Floating at a lower voltage, which is still in the "charging" region simply cannot shorten the life of a lead acid battery, no matter who the manufacturer is. I'd suggest Jeff should contact a lawyer and any consumer protection agencies he can think of. If there is no more to this story, it is clearly a case of warranty fraud and deserves punishment.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120
George M. Todd (George_mc6)
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Username: George_mc6

Post Number: 913
Registered: 8-2006
Posted From: 76.171.79.185

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Posted on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 - 9:42 pm:   

Whew,
Just read the long thread, and don't know what to make of it?
Notable things are 130 Amp solar panels, (I don't think so, I think the writer means Watts.)
I'm with Jerry, and I know him to be well-qualified, none of the voltages described should hurt those bateries!
G
Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
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Username: Truthhunter

Post Number: 224
Registered: 1-2009
Posted From: 24.129.232.232


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Votes: 1 (Vote!)

Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 1:02 am:   

I think the first step in the forensics should be to verify that there is not malfunction in your system with hard data such as a modern scope with event capture features, then offer that rebuttal evidence to them with a "I don't think so" , include an offer to view there supporting data out of court, with a deadline to reply to the last paragraph containing a letter of demand . Might not prompt them to get to admit the technical details of there batteries charge characteristics , but will likely get you some sort of warranty settlement , as the genius that syhsted that small print warranty clause is likely not into the dealing with the actual technical details (lazy). Any amount of accountability is better than none at all and might just help them fix this product intolerance in there battery on future productions. May not be the lawyer way, but then we are not that way either.
Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member
Username: Dreamscape

Post Number: 535
Registered: 5-2007
Posted From: 64.40.215.178


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Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 5:58 am:   

Why do we always jump to go get a lawyer? That is always a last resort for me, if at all. Whatever happened to the good ole days!

I like Clints approach better!!!
FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member
Username: Fast_fred

Post Number: 887
Registered: 10-2006
Posted From: 76.195.78.219


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Posted on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 - 6:40 am:   

Its here,

http://www.passagemaker.com/MagazineandEvents/OnlineResources/MessageBoards/tabid/520/foru mid/-1/threadid/72657/scope/posts/Default.aspx

with the comeback from the batt guy

FF
Cullen Newsom (Cullennewsom)
Registered Member
Username: Cullennewsom

Post Number: 114
Registered: 2-2009
Posted From: 98.201.161.214


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Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 10:55 pm:   


quote:

Whatever happened to the good ole days!


It is against the law now. :o(

old discount tire ad
Cullen Newsom (Cullennewsom)
Registered Member
Username: Cullennewsom

Post Number: 115
Registered: 2-2009
Posted From: 98.201.161.214


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Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 11:06 pm:   

Wow, Sparks/Harris sounds like a fine upstanding gentleman. And quite knowledgeable (I'm guessing!) I bet folks will be falling all over themselves to buy batteries from him after they read that. lol
Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member
Username: Jerry_liebler

Post Number: 348
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 71.30.199.162

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Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 11:27 am:   

Fred,
From what I can see on the www, Northstar AGM batteries should be avoided, for several reasons.
1. They are nearly unique in that they use a lead/tin plate alloy that has little good data on life or charge characteristics. Most AGMs use a lead/calcium plate alloy that has been widely studied and offers very good life, excellent self discharge characteristics, and charge characteristics very similar to the lead/antimony types of vented batteries.
2. In addition Northstar is represented by a fellow named Sparks/Harris who's post demonstrates ignorance and arrogance, not to mention the denial of a very justified warranty claim.
Hopefully reliable AGM manufacturers, who use the well known lead/calcium plate system, such as Universal, Fullriver, Deka & Lifeline are chosen over Northstar.
Regards
Jerry 4107 1120

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