| Author | Message | ||
| Jim and Myrna Lawrence (Daffycanuck)
Registered Member Username: Daffycanuck Post Number: 46 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 66.82.9.61  Rating: N/A |
Its time to replace the radiator on our Bus. The present one leaks, and was originally designed to cool a different engine. The radiator is in a confined space, so cannot be made physically larger, so must increase efficiency. I have already replaced the fan with the largest usable hydraulic motor driven blade, and shroud. I want to replace it with a radiator that will have the best designed core.....which is???? I've checked websites for core designs and find there are many. Straight, crooked, staggered, more rows etc. Has anyone on the board have experience with this and can offer some insight. | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 250 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232  Rating: N/A |
err...not having examined a daf bus before nor knowing your engine or radiator arrangement all I can suggest is consult a good rad shop , provide them dimensional measurements , make & model of your existing rad (look for a tag or consult the parts manual ) then ask for a quote on your various replacement options. It is often possible & not to expensive ( under $2000) to repair &/or modify what you now have, by using the parts that are still good (tanks & nipples)adding a new mid section. In Winnipeg I had often used the services of a small rad shop in Fort Garry for these unobtainable rare applications, I think it was Fort Garry Radiator on Chevierie blvd. Shop locally first, many old timer rad re builders can do this if you are prepare to pay . Why not just replace with OEM, add one of these mister system or put a tack between you & the throttle pedal combined with operating at the proper RPM range for demand. | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 402 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.59.75.212 Rating: N/A |
your photos show that the bus originally had a radiator intake on the drvs side.....no longer incorporated in the new body. sus[ect that is 99% of your problem you have limited the airflow to the radiator and the fan | ||
| JC Alacoque (Jc_alacoque)
Registered Member Username: Jc_alacoque Post Number: 83 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 72.45.68.242 Rating: N/A |
Last winter, I took my rad to a shop that put in a new core. Dimpled tubes with serpentine fins. No more overheating. $1000. JC | ||
| Jim and Myrna Lawrence (Daffycanuck)
Registered Member Username: Daffycanuck Post Number: 47 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 66.82.9.79 Rating: N/A |
The Rad that is in now has never cooled this engine properly, and I already use a mister to keep it cool. The new door has a very large opening, so I'm sure air flow is not the problem. In fact since I replaced the old door, and put on the bigger fan, shroud, the cooling has been better....BUT I want it to cool without using the mister. JC Alacoque has given me something to work with...Dimpled tubes and serpentine fins. I'm going to a rad shop in the city tomorrow...I'll throw out those words....LOL...he'll think I know what I'm talking about. | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 347 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.77.231.123  Rating: N/A |
How many rows and passes in your current rad and can you go thicker? And make sure its a copper core unit replacement. The full copper gets rid of heat better. And where does the rad sit in your coach and what is the layout? The rad has to be higher than the engine of course or have a fill tank. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 894 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.195.234.106  Rating: N/A |
"How many rows and passes in your current rad and can you go thicker?" This is the right question , but remember there is a point with a thick radiator that the cooling will fall off unless very strong fan setup is created. I think its beyond 4 rows it gets hard , but ASK the core builder. FF | ||
| Dan West (Utahclaimjumper)
Registered Member Username: Utahclaimjumper Post Number: 194 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 208.66.38.60 Rating: N/A |
Also aluminium cools much better in a radiator setting than does copper.>>>Dan | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1572 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9  Rating: N/A |
If you can find an issue of TNT, which is a paperback truckers bargain sheet, there are several major radiator manufacturers listed that will build whatever you need. Thickness, fin spacing, tube shape, etc. I think one was called General Radiator. Make sure you get a company that actually builds the radiator themselves. Some of these outfits are just middlemen and you might not get the service or results you need. | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 348 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.77.231.123 Rating: N/A |
I think Dan might be right about the aluiminum now that i ponder it. I dont know.We install Slant fin baseboard all the time and they use aluiminum fins to shed the heat. If copper worked better they would probably use it, i assumed it was a cost issue. I just have always heard "Copper core is best" without any real info to back it up. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 899 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.195.234.106 Rating: N/A |
It could be very expensive to "mist" tap water on a hot aluminum radiator. FF | ||
| Jim and Myrna Lawrence (Daffycanuck)
Registered Member Username: Daffycanuck Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 66.82.9.61 Rating: N/A |
My trip to the rad specialist was informative, altho he really couldn't tell me if he would build new or rebuild until he saw my present rad. He did say that dimpled tubes are more efficient. He also had mixed feelings about aluminum being 'better'....and as FF mentions I also should not mist an aluminum rad. My present Rad is 22.5 x 24 x 5 inches. There is no room to enlarge. I also don't know the row count etc. It is mounted inside the engine compartment facing the front...parallel to back bumper. The fan is a 23", 5 blade, driven by a hydraulic motor. I've made arrangements to take the rad into this shop. Will post the findings. Thanks all | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 905 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.216.70.102 Rating: N/A |
The fan is a 23", 5 blade, driven by a hydraulic motor. Is this the "stock" setup"?, as Hyd motors may be had that spin faster , if the pump is up to it. FF | ||
| Jim and Myrna Lawrence (Daffycanuck)
Registered Member Username: Daffycanuck Post Number: 49 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.19.14.40 Rating: N/A |
This is not the stock configuration. It came with a jackshaft, series of pully's and belts driving a 12" fan. I replaced that with a Dowty 3000 series Hydraulic pump driving a Sauer Danfoss SNM2 Motor, which I calculate is spining at aprox 3000 rpm. I have a bit of a problem with the belts slipping on the pump until the oil warms up. I would like to put serpentine belts on, but its not possible. With the 23" 5 blade fan, there is LOTS of air moving. I suspect, with a more efficient radiator, I may be able to slow the fan down. | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 289 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232 Rating: N/A |
...how about a "simple" hydraulic fluid bypass , perhaps even thermostatically or dash switched solenoid control,( visit your nearest princess auto web site or the scrape yard) as you are waisting energy spinning that fan at full capacity, when the conditions are cold. This will solve the "belt slip when cold" problem and perhaps pay for it self in fuel efficiency and premature belt/pulley wear; especially if you do a lot of cold weather driving. -doing it the right way , is ideally my way + easy to spell , but not so easy to do when re-"inventing the wheels" | ||
| Jim and Myrna Lawrence (Daffycanuck)
Registered Member Username: Daffycanuck Post Number: 50 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.19.14.40 Rating: N/A |
Clint....already in place | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 221 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 208.81.157.90  Rating: N/A |
Jim, have you tried any baffling? A full width flap crosswise at the rad to create high pressure in front and low pressure behind the rad. I hear some old flat belt is just the ticket. The other thing I would look into especially if the rad is gunked up(tech term) is flushing and cleaning out the block. Good luck. Don 4107 | ||
| Jim and Myrna Lawrence (Daffycanuck)
Registered Member Username: Daffycanuck Post Number: 51 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.19.14.23 Rating: N/A |
Pulled the rad today and took it to the 'specialist'. Most of the fins are soft and flakey from corrosion...no cooling power there at all. The 'man' said he would dismantle and advise his coarse of action. I will post the results here when I have them. | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph7)
Registered Member Username: Ralph7 Post Number: 39 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 206.251.12.226 Rating: N/A |
Hope you are useing a air trans oil cooler. What was the final result to the trans loosing oil? | ||
| Jim and Myrna Lawrence (Daffycanuck)
Registered Member Username: Daffycanuck Post Number: 52 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.19.14.42 Rating: N/A |
Yes, it is an air trans cooler...full size of the water radiator.... Trans loosing oil???? Haven't had that problem | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph7)
Registered Member Username: Ralph7 Post Number: 40 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 206.251.12.226 Rating: N/A |
Did you have the trans rebuilt a while back, an it had a problem. | ||
| Jim and Myrna Lawrence (Daffycanuck)
Registered Member Username: Daffycanuck Post Number: 53 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 66.82.9.82 Rating: N/A |
Ralph, yes, that was two years ago. Front seal had small leak. I should have had it looked at then, but easier to add a quart every once in a while. Seal let go while coming down BIG mountain near Lillooet, B.C. Tow truck driver said he followed trail of oil!! Got shafted at Allison shop in Kamloops (had me by the short hairs)...$10,000.00 for rebuilt that I had to have looked at again in Edmonton....leaked like a sieve. Should have had it towed to Edmonton Allison....but thats all water under the bridge. I have since replaced the filter, oil etc. Also threw away the cork gasket they use and replaced with gasket maker...its now pretty much dry. Totally an experience I don't want to have again |