| Author | Message | ||
| Dave Silva (Cypress)
Registered Member Username: Cypress Post Number: 51 Registered: 12-2002 Posted From: 152.121.17.40 Rating: N/A |
I've been lurking on this board about 10 years, dreaming and posting the occasional question. I've always had a thing for the 4104. Ten years ago they were fetching pretty good money and at the same time, there was "conventional wisdom" suggesting that a newer bus would be a wiser choice for parts availability. Well here we are waste deep in a recession. Interest in coach conversion seems to have fallen a bit. The RV companies have been making some decent pushers (i guess they're decent) and there are what look like decent 4104's, mostly converted for under $20K, some some under $10K all over craigslist. So what's the conventional wisdom say now? Would it be foolish to try to get into one of these things for $10K with an annual operating budget of a few thousand a year? I suppose the veterans out there will defend their spouse-like devotion but I'd love to hear from some newly converted devotees. I hope this post spawns some discussion. | ||
| Jim Wallin (Powderseeker01)
Registered Member Username: Powderseeker01 Post Number: 33 Registered: 10-2008 Posted From: 173.14.23.49  Rating: N/A |
I'll bet you won't find a diesel pusher RV for 10-20K that's worth spending any time or money on. Spouse like devotion aside, while you may need to do some remodeling and repair, when you're finished you'll have a better piece of equipment for alot lower cost, and you'll have the enjoyment of having made it your way. Jim Wallin PD4107-627 | ||
| Dave Silva (Cypress)
Registered Member Username: Cypress Post Number: 52 Registered: 12-2002 Posted From: 152.121.17.40 Rating: N/A |
I was not suggesting that the Pushers are any match for a good ole bus. But they may distract the potential bus converter, as a better option than the other lumbering deathtraps they call motorhomes. | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 150 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.216.161.250 Rating: N/A |
If you got a thing for them you are never gonna be happy with anything else. Just find the best one that you can for the money you have to spend. Good Luck and Enjoy! | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 87 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.58.71.64  Rating: N/A |
I'm going on two years as owner of 4104-204. We're redoing all the cheap stuff first, like rewiring the coach 12 & 120 volt & redoing the plumbing as well. The drivetrain was rebuilt within the last 10,000 or so miles, so all is good there. I did have to replace a rear wheel seal, a pinion seal, & some misc stuff. The conversion is dated, but everything works...sort of. I looked for along time as well, with the 4104 as my prime bus. My wife thought I was nuts, but let me play online, looking at this and that 4104. I'd have her look at the ones that really caught my fancy, but she still blew it off as me being nuts...and smart enough not to bite on one. Well, we were out for a ride one day on a the RoadKing & we came across a '57 4104 conversion not too far from here. We stopped & the couple turned out to be very accomodating to our questions. After 2 hours, my wife asked if they were going to be selling theirs in the near future! She loved it...and now she's part owner of one, not that one, however. Roadtrips are still a blast, but we have yet to go camping in the ol' girl. Two years from retirement and we're off... Dream on...but not for too long, eh? BTW: I'm at just over $9000 into mine with purchase, truck garage work, complete service of all fluids, & a complete driveline & brake check by the truck garage. The main wrench there loves her as well... | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 382 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232  Rating: N/A |
er ah, hate to break it to you pressCY , but if you could hardly spell busnut last millenium and the notion remained on your mind this far into the new millenium , YOUR INFECTED + there ain't no cure, only a treatment. =You might as well dig up your nest egg and get spending , while fiat currency still has value beyond reusable toilet paper. No point in living in denial any longer you poor thing. ...Welcome aboard your own bus... p.s. two grand will at the very least cover operating cost of a 35 foot storage shed/pipe dream shack, which is good value for the money in my books, mabe even cover the odd tank of fuel and bucket of oil so you can keep interested on the long journey. Not unlike the cost of operating a flimsy stick'n'staples as a guest house in your outback...driving either down the road, well that is expensive , even if it's a moped with a drycleaner bag for a cabin... | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 110 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
Just keep in mind that even the newest 4104 is nearly 50 years old. They were well built, but need to be inspected as to body cracks since they are unibody built buses. But it is already well proven that with good maintenance, the GMC highway buses can just about last forever. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 926 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.192.0.94  Rating: |
Find one you like , think the conversion is "good enough" and have it checked by the local bus co. Since you may be spending under $20K , remember your getting the safety , style and FUN of a real EZ to operate coach, that can go Down Town,not just Truck Route when touring. ALL or the price of the Sales tax on a new shoebox. If you can do the PM , in DA book, grease ,repack wheel seals and bearings ,adjust the brakes and all the other delayed maint that is simple , and just takes time . DO IT! But it IS 50 years old so a window rubber , or whatever is simply part of the hobby. If you live near a TV or movie making area , and the outside is not hoked up with awnings , rooftop carbunkles , and crazy paint, there may be income to be had from your older beauty. FF | ||
| Dave Silva (Cypress)
Registered Member Username: Cypress Post Number: 53 Registered: 12-2002 Posted From: 152.121.17.40 Rating: N/A |
Like this one for instance; http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/rvs/1299651049.html Anyone in South Florida know anything about this bus? | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 88 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.58.71.64 Rating: N/A |
Those 30 footer 4104's are quite rare! Looks decent enough, but I'd be leary of the fact that it does look like the original side window frames were cut to accept the new windows. I've always been told to avoid any of these "monocoque" (sp??) constructed buses with cuts to the original window radius. Check closely for cracks and settling along the ribbed siding, bulkheads, & whatever others suggest... | ||
| Dave Silva (Cypress)
Registered Member Username: Cypress Post Number: 54 Registered: 12-2002 Posted From: 152.121.17.40 Rating: N/A |
Just so we're clear- is there any such thing as a 30-foot 4104? Some other things in the ad made me think the seller has no history with this or any other bus. Good point about the windows. Fortunatly, i know a few aircraft engineers. We reconfigure monocoque airframes all the time. I get can some adult supervision on that. | ||
| Tim Hoskinson (Tdh37514151)
Registered Member Username: Tdh37514151 Post Number: 251 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.25.139.50  Rating: N/A |
Hi Dave I have owned a 4104 now for six years. I have been through the wheel bearing,axle spindle,seal and wear ring,brake and air ride problems along with other smaller problems. I do all of my own work including any machine work. I can tell you from experience that the 4104 is a very nice bus to drive and in my opinion one of the best looking buses next to a silverside. However if you are a person who is not capable of doing some of the up keep and repairs your self these buses can turn into an unreasonable project.When we bought our 4104 it was the nicest one of about twenty that we looked at. We took it out the first year with no problems at all and felt we got a really good deal and we did. However the second season I decide to change the tires and while doing so found a front brake return spring hanging out of one of the vent holes in the brake drum. From there things went down hill finding loose bearing race bores in both front wheel hubs, bad bearings seals and striped wheel lugs. After welding up and reboring the front hubs for the correct press fit to the races,new bearings and seals I went on to look at the back brakes. There I found bad seals, Optional aluminum brake shoes someone had unsucessfully tried to retrofit the wrong lineings on and worn axle tubes along with bad wear rings and broken and striped wheel lugs. Keep in mind this bus looked very good and came with impressive paper work showing alot of money spent on the engine, windows, bay doors and other things but not the ares I mentioned. The lesson hear for me was no matter how good the bus looks and no matter what the service records show there will always be hidden problems on old buses. Find one that you can have checked out or do it your self. Its best if you can get the bus off the ground to check for bad king pins,loose wheel bearings and strcture cracks. I hope you find what you are looking for and get a good one. If I can be of any help to you feel free to email me and I will offer any info I may have experience with. Best of luck. Tim | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 277 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 24.164.20.23  Rating: N/A |
Hey Bro, How you doing? You should have asked me a year ago, practically gave mine away. There were a few 30' made. They were built for some special application, don't remember what it was. The important thing is that no matter how nice it looks, you can easily spend $10,000 just to get it to go safely up and down the road (tires, brakes, steering). That's not considering engine, clutch or transmission. Mine became a garage queen because I never had the cash to do all those things. Knowing what I do now, I would sooner have a tin tent with air mattresses and a porta-potti as long as the mechanicals were in top shape. So, if you find one with tires that are less than five years old, has Sheppard steering, and spring brakes, you will know that it was well cared for at least in some part of it's post revenue life. Having said that, I wish I still had her. Len (Message edited by lsilva on August 19, 2009) | ||
| Arthur N. Gaudet (Runcutter)
Registered Member Username: Runcutter Post Number: 18 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 76.185.254.17 Rating: N/A |
Dave, the pictures look like it's a standard 35 footer, probably a typo/mispost in the heading of the ad. I do know that there were some 30-foot PD-4106's made (the sportscar of sportscars?) but 4104's predate my life in the bus business. I agree about questioning the structure, with the appearance of the window replacement. Like aircraft, the entire bus is monocoque construction (think unibody cars). Skin is structural. The ad states that the rear window has a problem. My understanding is that replacement glass is not available, you'd have to do something else (fiberglas?) Other than that, based on the limited information, the bus looks like it may be worth investigating. Arthur | ||
| Rob Allen (Rob_allen)
Registered Member Username: Rob_allen Post Number: 12 Registered: 6-2009 Posted From: 194.69.148.1  Rating: N/A |
While not a 4104 my first bus was a 66'MC5A. A friend and I were given it for free under the conditions that we get it off of the owners property within a month from where it had been sitting for 15 years, neither of us had ever seen or worked on a bus before. It's not a full conversion, more a party bus, but with about 1.5 years of actually working on it, and 3 years sitting on my property, we got her up to full working condition for I'd estimate around $5000. Now she runs like a top thats been beaten pretty well and needs to have the air suspension adjusted. With a little bit of luck, a little bit of stupidity, and keeping an eye out you can find some pretty good deals. | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 137 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 99.199.168.20 Rating: N/A |
the statement that it is 30 ft means that it is not a 4104 as we know that GM used the four numbers to describe model and issue, 41 was the number of passangers it carried and the last two numbers were the change to the bus that carried 41 passamgers eg. 04,06, 07 and others so how would you get 41 people in a 4104 39 ft, long? | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 387 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.219 Rating: N/A |
maybe it was a stand-up model ???? hahahah .the bussing bros, now that is quaint. | ||
| Linda & Kirby Karlsson (Linda4104fl)
Registered Member Username: Linda4104fl Post Number: 32 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 173.118.112.118 Rating: N/A |
Hey Dave... saw your post on the BNO bulletin board about 4104s. We have one ourselves, we love it. Anyway, a friend of ours in Jacksonville, FL has called us a couple of times to ask if we know anyone who wants a 4104. He's got one of his own, plus one he got from a friend and he's looking to get it (the friend's bus) out of his back yard. I don't know much about it, but give my friend a call and tell him you got his number from me. His name is Chet Gibson, his number is 904-910-9222. Good luck! Kirby | ||
| Jim Gibson (River_rat)
Registered Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 148 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.95.96.192 Rating: N/A |
I bought my first bus, an 04, about 6 months ago and I am in love with the girl. She had a good life and a professional conversion back in the 70's, but spent the past 10 years or so with little PM or TLC. Luckily (so far) I have found no serious mechanical problems, and actually she is in pretty decent shape. I'm retired and have been spending about 40 hours a week for the past 4 months working on her, and she is starting to look pretty good. I'm nearing paint, and I gotta say, sanding and painting a bus is a MAJOR project, at least one that was in poor shape. Anyway, I am planning on taking her to Burningman next week and it will be my first trip. They are a remarkable engineering feat - over 50 years old and still so solid - it's amazing what all aluminum aricraft construction can do. One last fun note - mostly I have been working on her, but in the few times I have taken her out, I always have at least 2-3 people a mile that give me the greatest smiles, thumbs-up, and looks of envy (or they think i'm a nut case maybe). Go for it, you will love it! | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 391 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232 Rating: N/A |
hey ain't that close to Macjayniner? aren't you bussless these days too john? How about saving a bus from the evil hands of them demolition derby beasts ? again that number is 904-910-9222 ...(come on buddy, up on your feet, if you will )... forgive me ? I mean well, it's the 67 degree of my busnutty infliction, and that's my best excuse | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 580 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.155.14  Rating: N/A |
I get first grabs clint, I am in Ocala and need another bus since I have 3 Now I will try to get in touch with him,, Thanks Gomer | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 405 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232 Rating: N/A |
hum insn't four in one yard kind of like a pack,,, I do like the cut of your obession corpral pile, carry on... ??? maybe macjay9ier could come over and sit in one of there operator cabins??? some time, you know "carrot on a stick" like bus therapy ??? |
