| Author | Message | ||
| Buddy Tennison (Buddyten)
Registered Member Username: Buddyten Post Number: 80 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 207.68.234.50 Rating: N/A |
Hey Guys: Have an '80 Eagle 10. This weekend, I noted that when I apply the brakes, the right side air guage lost pressure substantially. Talked to another bus owner who informed me that I had probably had a brake chamber go bad. Called Norris at Jefferson, and he indicated it was a Type 16 Bendix Westinghouse. Found some locally at a TruckPro House. When looking for the leak, we cranked the bus and after air pressure built up, applied the brakes. Lots of air coming from the rear wheel on passenger side. Not being a mechanic, does this sound like it is the problem or should I look for something else. Are these brake chamber pods hard to change out or should I just bite the bullet and pay the $85/hr for a diesel mechanic | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 384 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232  Rating: N/A |
"figure it out yourself" or try to first, with a high tech spray bottle of soapy water, a flashlight and of course make the bus safe to crawl under, then take it from there . . alternatively the credit card /cell phone make a good tool box, but tow trucks are expensive and you MUST NOT drive it to the shop until you know what the problem is and that it doesn't not leak beyond dot regulations (which you knew when you passed your air brake endorsement on you licence , RIGHT ? ...sincerely hope this helps you ask a proper question (with much more details) & leads you to make informed decision buddy... -erh ah safety first, ehy- | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1149 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 70.6.17.93  Rating: N/A |
Buddy, First, we need to know how "mechanical" you are? You said rear wheel on passenger side and that Norris told you it was a type 16. That sounds like it is probably the bogey and not the drive axle, is that corrct? If it is the drive axle, does you brake can have 2 or 3 hoses connected to it? Jack | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 409 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62  Rating: N/A |
If you hear air that is definitely where your problem is now what you don't know is whether its a brake chamer or hose etc. Will need to inspect to figure that out. Also if it's the rear chamber you will find it is a different style that the 16 used in the front | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1150 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 70.6.17.93 Rating: N/A |
Buddy, First, we need to know how "mechanical" you are. You said passenger side rear wheel and that Norris said it used a type 16. Sounds like the bogey wheel and not the drive axle, is that correct? If it is the drive axle, does your brake can have 2 or 3 hoses connected to it? Jack | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 550 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 64.40.216.13  Rating: N/A |
I spoke with Dan Lenz, used to work at Silver Eagle. He says you have either size 30/30 or 30/36 spring brake chambers on the rear. Type 16 like Norris said on the front and bogie. You can call me at 3256604635. I sent you and email from your profile and it bounced back. Let me know if I can help. | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member Username: Chuck_newman Post Number: 392 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 99.170.65.179  Rating: N/A |
Jack, According to a local bus mechanic and my MCI manuals, the bogey IS the drive axle, as opposed to the tag axle or trailing axle suspension. Have been spending lots of hours in the manuals and on my back under this fine machine lately. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 749 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.54.207 Rating: N/A |
Chuck, on the later model Eagle the bogey is the axle in front of the drivers according to Eagle as they don't have the tag good luck | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1151 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 70.6.110.138 Rating: N/A |
I have always been told every bus has a drive axle (2 wheels per side) and the extra wheel on each side is referred to as a tag if it is tagging along behind the drive axle and as a bogey if it is in front of the drive axle. Jack | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 99 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 71.139.244.152  Rating: N/A |
Jack, thanks for clearing that up. Now all you MCI guys need to refer to your dummy axle as the tag, and all the Eagle guys refer to yours as the bogie. That will make things alot easier. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 750 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.54.207 Rating: N/A |
David you can't always do that with a Eagle some do have tags like the 01 and some of the last 15's life can't be that easy LOL (Message edited by luvrbus on August 20, 2009) | ||
| ned sanders (Uncle_ned)
Registered Member Username: Uncle_ned Post Number: 68 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 74.235.49.214 Rating: |
david All gm owners do not have to worry about tag or bogie's Only one 4905 had one and they hid it. They knew we were not to smart and made it easy uncle ned | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 278 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 24.164.20.23  Rating: N/A |
Don't take that spring brake apart to replace the diaphragm unless you know what you are doing. Either replace the whole can or take to someone to replace the diaphragm. That spring can hurt you bad. | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1152 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 70.6.110.138 Rating: N/A |
If removing a Spring Brake (not DD3), make sure you "cage" the spring using the special bolt that is attached to the outside of the brake can! Failure to do so can result in serious injury or death. Jack | ||
| Chuck Newman (Chuck_newman)
Registered Member Username: Chuck_newman Post Number: 393 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 99.170.65.179 Rating: N/A |
Luverbus and Jack, It is now clear to me where much verbal confusion comes from -- manufacturer terminology. Sometimes it is Country related. In America we all know where the trunk is in our cars. Bus in England, do you know where to find the boot? Buddy, I'm sorry for hijacking your thread here, but I must agree with the majority, if your not familiar with the workings of the bus and appropriate safety procedures, take it to a bus mechanic. If you are fortunate to have spring brakes, and one is bad, your not looking at a national debt charge to get it fixed or replaced. | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 101 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 69.228.117.81 Rating: N/A |
Chuck, thanks for bringing this back on point. Oh, and you have a good point there! | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 102 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 69.228.117.81 Rating: N/A |
Buddy, I would assume that a truck or bus mechanic should be able to change a brake chamber (springbrake or service) in an hour or less. So that said, you may want to consider having it done...maybe the mechanic will let you watch and learn too! | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 263 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.203 Rating: N/A |
Buddy, If you spoke with Norris and it is the 16 diaphram on a non powered axle it is safe and easy for you to change. Just take off the circular clamp, remove the old rubber diaphram, (It's probably slightly stuck), clean the edges where the new one seats and bolt it back togather. 20 minutes, tops, with one wrench. Probably a 9/16. If its a drive axle service diaphram, it will be bigger and there are safety issues because of the caged spring. If its a drive axle service diaphram you likely will get by with only a service diaphram for parts unless you want to change the piggy back so you are more comfortable with things. If you go that route, change them both and you should still be under an hour shop time and about $120 parts. That will give you 4 new diaphrams and you will be set for several years. | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 554 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 64.40.215.186 Rating: N/A |
If it is indeed the drive axle, you can change the spring brake can very easy. You can buy new cans for about 40 bucks at most any truck parts place. New one on, old one in the dumpster. It is not worth rebuilding the old one. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_mc6)
Registered Member Username: George_mc6 Post Number: 918 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 64.55.111.6 Rating: N/A |
Sorry Paul, I have to violently disagree with your assesment of ease in changing a drive axle brake can on any DD3 or spring brake bus! Both styles will have tremendous force applied to the brake linkage while parked. DD3s can be defeated by disconnecting the emergency line in the release position, plugging the line to avoid a wild hose, and then applying the parking brake. Springs can only be caged to remove the force, and as mentioned above, "you should know what you're doing." We all need to know whether it is a tag axle, or a drive axle can, to give proper advice. If it is a "tag" axle can that is leaking, it can indeed be easily changed, not so with a drive can. Not to mention securing the bus against roll with part of the parking brake disabled. Also, since it is an Eagle, the torsion bars don't deflate, so it won't settle on him during his repair. Also Clint, in California where he and I live, a 3 axle motorhome with air brakes can be legally driven with a non-commercial (Class 3) automoble license, without any endorsements. G | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 555 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 64.40.215.186 Rating: N/A |
George, I made that statement on my own personal experience, it was that easy. I made the switch from DD-3 to Spring Brake myself. Once you know what to do it doesn't take that long, at least on an Eagle. I agree you have to be careful and know what you are doing, but it's not rocket science. Respectfully, Paul | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 282 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 75.178.92.43  Rating: N/A |
Paul - Your comment "I made the switch from DD-3 to Spring Brake myself" really perked up my ears. I've been worried about Bendix having discontinued our DD3 brakes (seems a major betrayal to a lot of customers, but I'll leave that alone for now). Anyway, would you recommend changing out the DD3s for springs? If so, would I need to do drives AND fronts? Just changed one of the front cans (a tip of the hat to Ralph P.) so would rather do just the drives. But either way, that sounds like good news! Nellie Wilson |
