| Author | Message | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (170.215.38.158)
Rating: N/A |
We went to look at a Kenworth yesterday and although it basically did fit our ideals, the little woman did not feel comfortable with all the clutch operation involved with a 10 speed Eaton Fuller. She had no problems with actually driving it, she never has been afraid of whatever I ask her to take the wheel of. It is the "in town" driving using the clutch and switching between the upper and lower ranges all the time. Does anyone have any knowledge of replacing the 10 speed with a 7 or 10 speed Electrashift. From the Eaton website pics, it looks much like the manual tranny but with the elecronics attached. I did a quick search last night and foud one dismantler had 6 for sale at $750 a piece, thought that was a great price, wondered if they were a reliable unit? The KW has an electronic DD series 60 11.1 liter motor, so electronic controls should be there already. Thanks for any info or warnings, comments, etc. Peter. | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Hey Pete....Have you seriously considered replacing your wife and NOT the tranny? He he he! Just kidding!!! Well....maybe not..... One of the FUNNEST things about driving my Crown 10-wheeler is the close-ratio non-synkro over- drive heavy-duty 10-speed RTO-910 Roadranger truck tranny. Kinda like shifting a dirt bike, but with more gears! I am sure that with some driver training, you can have you wife shifting as well as any professional trucker. Good luck. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
I dunno Henry... I've got 7000 miles on my roadranger 9 spd and am "just" now beginning to not trash it every time I switch between hi and lo range. I'm usually good at this stuff and it ain't easy! "Grind me a pound" The wife definitely won't drive it. Ugh. That Eaton Autoshift system is pretty darned slick, and I'm jealous 'cause I (or you either!) don't have SAE J-1939 protocol motors, so they won't work in our busses... Cheers Gary | ||
| RJ Long (24.127.74.29) Rating: N/A |
Why not slap an Allison HT754CR in there? Five speeds, no grinding, piece of cake in stop 'n go traffic, easy to back into campsites, works wonders with a Jake, and Mama will love it. . . You know the saying: "If Mama ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy!" 8^) RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (170.215.38.158)
Rating: N/A |
Ok guys, I goofed on the name of the tranny, it is an Autoshift and Gary is correct in that the SAE J-1939 is required which basically means late model trucks and motors or rewire the whole truck dash, cab, engine, etc. So it's back to the drawing board for me. Now a long time ago I was told that I couldn't put a series 60 in an MCI-8 as the rpms of the 60 would only get me down the road at 60 mph or so. If a 8V-71 revs at 1800, so does a series 60, in fact they can be easily reprogrammed to run 2100 rpm, so what am I missing? RJ, how many gears has this Allison HT754CR got and will it work with a series 60 and pull 35000 lbs down the road at a criuse of 70mph and top speed of 80+mph? Peter. | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (170.215.38.158)
Rating: N/A |
Henry, I did just that but she saw the expression on my face, so I ran and hid for awhile..... LOL. The problem is not that she wouldn't drive it, she has no trouble with driving anything I own, but it was the fact she would never drive it enough to get used to gear selection and clutch syncronization. I think the auto will be the best way if financially viable. Or we will look at the FL70 sized vehicles but they often come with 170hp motors. Does anyone know if the 3116 Cat is purely a reprogramming job to go from 190 to 300hp? Or is it more involved than that? Peter. | ||
| RJ Long (24.127.74.29) Rating: N/A |
Peter - My suggestion of the 754 was to Gary, who's better half won't drive his stick. . . (Pun intended!!!! ) For your KW, I'd suggest either the Allison B500 or HD4060. Both are electronic, so will interface with the S-60's black box, and both are programmable for fifth (0.74:1) and sixth gear (0.64:1) overdrives. Get the EVS version, and you can pump 540 hp into it. . . THAT ought to keep up with the big boys! HTH, RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (170.215.38.158)
Rating: N/A |
RJ, Maybe your suggestion was to Gary but it may well be what I need to use. Apparently my proposed KW is too old to sport this J-1939 interface thingy. But there was a kit to convert the earlier DDEC2 to a DDEC3 which is basically a DDEC4. I have someone inquiring about that kit tomorrow if he remembers....... LOL. Problem with the B500 and the HD4060 is cost. They are apparently up in the mega-bucks level. If you know of any going cheap, email me off the group so I don't get trampled in the rush...... LOL. If this upgrade comes off there could be a slim chance that the Autoshift may still be a reality. However a full auto is sounding better all the time even at the expense of fuel economy. I am used to 5 to 7 mpg with the Apollo so as long as it stays the same or better I can live with that. Peter. | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
RJ, I looked at an Allison and almost went there, but I just dont want to drop any of my great gas mileage, and I've just now gotten my thermal system managed but I have a feeling that adding an auto tranny cooler will upset it again. So I'm going to stick with a crashbox. I am investigating the insane possibility of perhaps finding a used autoshift tranny, redesigning the electronics from scratch, using the motorized shift mechanism from it on my current tranny, adding the input and output shaft speed sensors, and making a hybrid out of it all. It'd be a fun project...yes It sounds crazy but I'm likely to pull it off if I put my mind to it. I once owned a little tiny car called a "Gogomobile" (1957 vintage).. it was German, about 2/3 the size of a Honda 600, had a two stroke two cyl rear engine with 4spd electric shift. Basically you'd select the gear you want, and when the clutch went in, a switch sensed it, popped it into neutral, and then into the selected gear when the tranny was synchronized. Granted the bus is a bigger and nastier monster but the little gogo was amazingly easy to drive and the theory on how it shifted was perfect. I wouldn't end up with something that acted "automatic" but I would end up with something that was easier to shift and wouldn't "miss" for the wife. Yeah, I'm nuts....but it's fun.... Cheers Gary | ||
| Bob Belter (67.121.1.9)
Rating: N/A |
Ho, Peter, I have an Eagle -01 with a Cummins M-11 (with J-1939), and a Fuller 10 spd overdrive RTO1110. Great performance and mileage. I'd really like to install a Fuller Autoshift. Please let me know where you found those items. I can't find them. enjoy/s/bob | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Gee people, I do not understand all the fuss and bother learning to shift a 10-speed Roadranger. I mean, even I learned how to do after not having done it for over 25 years in between. My active duty Fire Captain brother showed me how. Seems a lot of their reserve apparatus still.... Have the Fuller 5 speed boxes which are nearly the same only you have more gears and closer together. Anyway...once you learn how, you will NEVER want an Allison. Why....with the Roadranger you can shift 4-5 times and still be crossing the street! Very cool!! Oh, you can cheat like I do and only use about half the gears and only shift 5 times. Gary....your range split is 42% if memory serves correctly. Preselect a couple of seconds before and .... Then just wait for the range shift synkro to do their quick thing and the dog clutches to do their not soooss fast thing. Imagine how cool it would be if your wife could shift better than you could. Then SHE could drive all the time and you could sleep in the back. He he he. CROWNS FOREVER!! | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
Henry, The bitch is when I am either switching between high and low range, or when I'm in low range say between traffic lights. And I do skip gears all the time to avoid 3 shifts while still within an intersection... It's SO difficult to tell where you are, to get the engine RPM just right to actually get it into gear. If I miss a shift, it's usually in a busy traffic situation, the bus slows down to the point that the gear I was trying for is now the wrong one, drivers in the cars behind me are getting angry, I still have to steer the darned thing, I DON"T remember exactly what gear it should be in from looking at the tach and speedo (mental math at this point is out of the question) so I swear a few four letter words at the pound of ground Iron powder I've just caused to fall into the bottom of the tranny, STOP in the middle of traffic and start all over again. Fortunately it hasnt happened too many times, but when it does it's horrible. I'm a fast learner but I have to say, this one has me miffed. I think in January things will get a little better because I'm swapping my 5:29 rear for a 4:11, which will move a lot more of the city driving into the low range and eliminate my having to shift ranges between traffic lights. BUT I have to admit I see why the wife won't drive it. It's a PAIN in the city , a PAIN on the freeeway, and for that matter a general PAIN in the arss!! I even took a GUY out the other day who's been a hot car mechanic and motorcycle buff for years... no dummy when it comes to transmission shifting and he understands the theory on a crash box.... he gave up after about 15 minutes, and couldn't even get it right at freeway speeds either. Yes, I see why an Allison makes a lot of sense to some. Even more why an Autoshift looks appealing. If you have any hints, I'm all ears.... I just hope that I don't cause my newly rebuilt tranny to need another rebuilding before I've learned how to operate it properly.....  Cheers Gary | ||
| Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A |
Gary, maybe you could find somebody who has driven the exact same tranny to drive it and see if everything is operating properly, and if so, to give a few lessons. It really should not be that hard. I recall many years ago buying an old tractor and trailer and the tranny was a five speed with a three-speed axle for a total of fifteen gears forward. It was a six cylinder gasoline engine and you needed every gear. Especially travelling between Los Angeles and Las Vegas. I could have walked up the mountain faster than this rig would go. LOL The axle had an under, straight thru and over drive. You started out in first gear, low axle. The next shift you then shifted the axle to straight thru. The next shift you shifted the axle to overdrive. This provided for a total of three gearshifts in first gear. The next shift you shifted the tranny to second gear and shifted the axle back to low axle and then followed the same shift pattern thru the three speed axle again. As I recall it only took a few trips to master it so that very seldom did I have to actually stop and start over. Seems like it was called a Brownie over/under, but it has been so long ago that I forget. The point is that maybe there is something wrong in the tranny or you are possibly not doing something properly. I really do not think you should be having that much trouble learning how to double clutch a transmission. Richard | ||
| RJ Long (24.127.74.29) Rating: N/A |
Gary - You've got a Crown 10-wheeler, right? Try 2, 4, pull the button, 6, 8 for around town. Pull the button to go to 6th while still in 4th. More like driving a five-speed that way. . . Or do you want me to come down to SD and teach you how to do it? 8^) RJ PD4106-2784 Fresno CA | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.138)
Rating: N/A |
Linda and I are sitting here getting some real chuckles out of Henry, Gary and RJ........THANX!! BTDT, Gary, every time we take the coach out. Even had some special tutoring from RJ on an occasion or two and still can't make 100%, BUT...we're having a great time!!! LOL. What a hobby! Where else can one have so much fun, spend so much money, get so frustrated and still go to sleep with a smile on your face??? Ah sweet mystery of life....at last I've found you! BTW, Henry...what do you mean 42% range split? No comprendo. RJ. exactly, (almost) what we are doing in the way of skip shifting....but usually 2nd or third, 5th, 7th, 8th or 9th depending...still have BIG troubles downshifting in the lower range...  But we're making progress! Thanx for a good thread. RCB | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
I think Gary has an overdrive 9 speed with (I think) a .73 to one high gear which is eight. We will not count the low granny. I think his gear splits work out to 1st to 2nd, 40%, 2 to 3, 38%, 3 to 4 37% /// 4 to 5 42%, 5 to 6 40%, 6 to 7 38% and 7 to 8 37%. Rowing thru every gear with the gear oil somewhat warmed up shoud result in fairly quick shifts. As quick as a wide ratio 9 speed can provide. I can lug my Cummins down to around 1000 rpm with part throttle which means I can stay in the high range down to around 10 mph in 6th. Got the RTO-910. Gary has I think the RTX-11509 or around that. Actually, nearly the magic tranny for a Crown, giving him that sometimes needed very low granny and reverse gear, plus a topo of over 80. CROWNS FOREVER | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.222)
Rating: N/A |
OK.....got the English...now... what does this all mean? Don't understand the splits, percentages, etc. etc. How does that affect ( also effect) the shifting?? How does one use that wonderful information to advantage?? Duhh. FWIW, Henry, mine is an RTO 910. And it will do over 80. Seems to cruise best between 65 and 75, but seldom drive it over 65. (sure) And if the terrain and winds are right, not mountains or headwinds, we get about 12mpg. Goes down to 10.5 if driving lower than 8th. Thanx. RCB | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
Yup, Eaton 12609RTX The last gear is .73 overdrive and the "X" means that the overdrive option leaves the shifting pattern alone so it's not all upside-down and weird. Really nice ratios as Henry says. I can go 85 (well, cheating a bit 'cause the prior owner hopped my governor up to 2400) and in first I could probably pull a house off it's foundation. Soon my rear end is changing from 5:26 to 4:11, at which point highway cruzing will be more "in the pocket" of my power curve. My mileage might even go up from the current 10 to maybe 12 like RC gets... Cheers Gary | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A |
Gary; Bet after you get your "soft turbo" installed along with the 4:11 case, your mileage will increase even more as your mill will handle lower rpm. I have found that my big cam Cummins 855 non-turbo 250 will actually lug down to, under certain conditions, to 1400 rpm at 55 mph in 10th gear. If road condtions or winds conditions prohibit that, then one down shift to 9th (22% drop) increases the rpm to about 1750 where the mill seems to pull best. 2100 rpm no load. Seems someone set up my injector pump with springs that lowered the rpm curve. Opposite than yours. It is not a revver---it is a puller. CROWNS FOREVER!! |