| Author | Message | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 255 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 4.248.50.20  Rating: N/A |
Okay, big progress report. After AGAIN repairing the park brake QR valve, got her mobile (again) and onto the pit. [moral: forget used parts, just bite the bullet and order them new). Doing a big cleaning job under the rear end (of the bus  ) and, wow! lots of discoveries down there. Under 30 years of grease and rust and mud, found 7 nipples - obviously not greased for years - on the clutch alone. Took awhile but finally got her greased. That should help (least it can't hurt), plus replaced a spring that had rusted off the air assist... a helper spring to pull the linkage back down (and the pedal back up). I see there were 3 springs at one point but I'm fresh outta springs and even MCI hasn't a clue what they are. Not listed in the parts or maintenance manual so no way to order any. Blake (MCI tech) reckons I inherited a problem so just try to duplicate what the PO did. We'll see. Anyway, the clutch seems better but I'm not gonna test drive 'till I'm done on this pit - too nerve wracking to inch it back up here again. (Yeah, okay, I'm living over a pit!). Also found some leaks - leveling valves, bellows supply line, etc. - and patched those. Ended up jury-rigging everything from left over bits and pieces... but it seems to have worked (so scratch my "moral" above). No more (obvious) air leaks! When I shut her down, she's as quiet as a mouse. No more 'singing' tanks and little pssshing sounds. And it stays up pretty good. (Gosh, the Freudian opportunities just abound! Wonder if Sigmund never psycho-analyzed a Bus Nut?) A puzzle: My bus was leaking down and the rear end squatting a few hours after shut down. Now she loses only about I inch of height after 24 hours. But from then on, the curb side drops about twice as fast as the driver's side. I can't find any leaks, neither by sound or the soapy water test. The driver's side bellows stay rock hard but the curb side bellows go soft (see what I mean?). Both sides are freshly plated and have new bellows. A question maybe somebody could answer: Could the (curb side) bellows not be sealing onto the plates (like when a tire has a very slow leak around the bead)? See, I didn't use any sealant on that side and maybe I should have? But I sure don't want to pull those *%^# wheels again - and unbolt the plates - unless that's a likely cause. And, hey, while I'm on the subject of air bags and such... seems to me the load levelers are pretty useless once the suspension is plated. Any reason not to by pass the things - prone to leaks anyway - and run the air supply straight into the bellows? And how about splicing in a one-way valve - or even a manual stop-cock - to prevent air from escaping the suspension when being parked for awhile? I mean, these buses have a million places to bleed air, but all that matters (when at rest) is the air in the suspension, right? (Or wrong?) Any and all input much appreciated. In the meantime, back to the pit (over which I presently live). I found 4 other grease fittings buried under the grease, two on each (rear) wheel actually, they're on that inside plate covering the brake drum, so I sure don't want to overdo the grease. What are they for and how do I know when to stop greasing? One last (I promise) question: How do I check lube level of the rear end... the 'pumpkin,' I think you guys call it. Seems to be leaking (just a smidge) but I don't want to undo the wrong bolt (or whatever). And what weight lube goes in there? Sorry for the long winded post (Gee, Nellie, how uncharacteristic) but my main crutch, Ralph, seems to have gone AWOL. Though I'm betting he and Jeannie are on an extended shakedown cruise. But I'll let Ralph weigh in on that, if he's of a mind. Your Bus Nut Buddy, Nellie Wilson p.s.1- I love mechanic, but I sure miss my music. p.s.2- Nice to have a pit, but no telephone or internet access on the spot...ah well, nothing's "perfick" | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 267 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 205.188.116.203 Rating: N/A |
Hi, Nellie Well, the fittings close to the brake drums are probably S cam bushings. 2 or 3 pumps should be enough, you don't want grease inside the drums. Look for the fill plug on the side of the pumpkin. It's rare that you don't fill to the bottom of the fill plug. Others have experience with your exact air suspension, so I defer on that. Generally speaking though on my Peterbilt air suspensions if I could isolate the bag completely, they should hold air for a long period of time. They are alot like a tire in that respect. | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.209.239.84  Rating: N/A |
For the rear end plug on the bottom is to empty plug on the side is to fill until a little comes out. Book calls for 90wt winter and 140wt summer. You can use 85/140wt all year! "seems to me the load levelers are pretty useless once the suspension is plated. Any reason not to by pass the things - prone to leaks anyway - and run the air supply straight into the bellows?" If by the load levelers you mean the leveling system to drive down the road then no you need it for driving. if you mean the air beam above the air bag then yes. you can add a manual air leveling system that will keep your bags up and you can then add to each of the 4 bags separate or set for Hwy for driving! For my air bags I didn't use any sealant and no leaks Did you test and tighten when it was open with no wheels? if so then its probably from some other place. down near the wheels you have 2 Zerk fittings Brake Anchor Pin, Brake Cam Shafts Rob | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 433 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232  Rating: N/A |
fine to bypass the leveling valves when parked, as the main thing there is bus level for living comfort & utility function (shit don't flow up hill normally). ~One could even stick blocks in between the frame & axle and let the air down with a valve T-inline, dandy for long parks. Rubber blocks cut from thick tire would work fine, but cutting them , well maybe a wet quickie saw with a abrasive blade for cutting the stainless steel cords, glued together with construction adhesive or just stack together for adjustment. if you want fancy, try a 3 way "stop cock" if you wish to maintain air in the system up-line of the air billows. ...If not "perfick", perhaps adequate for now ... | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 156 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.216.1.230 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, on my 5A the po disconnected the levelers and installed a valve and gauge for each airbag. None are plated. I set the air to whatever i want for driving, usually about 80 psi for the front bags and 70 psi for the back so that my tow bar is horizontal between the bus and the jeep, and off i go. When stopped i can adjust each and every bag up or down to whatever i need to get level. | ||
| Patrick levenson (Zubzub)
Registered Member Username: Zubzub Post Number: 103 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 174.91.223.45  Rating: N/A |
re clutch linkage springs....A good car/truck parts store will have a variety of length and strength springs, you buy something close then heat and bend the proper end, or attach a linkage that works. Sounds more like more oiling/greaing etc may help. You're lucky you are over a pit getting to know all the bits, I've blocked up my bus and I have to roll in the dirt to do my repairs. IMHO rubber blocking between the suspension and stop blocks will compress too much for safety/comfort, the fir blocks that used are already half the size they were so hardwood blocks, preferably 1/4 sawn and I'll use a few planks switching the grain 90deg as I go. Buses are heavy. The leveling valves are a nice feature, not expensive, there are truck valves that can do this. I have discovered that there can be a 150% difference in new truck parts depending on where you buy. Since I'm in Canada and ordering on line from the US comes with BIG import and brokerage fees from UPS I look things up online so I know what the price should be then go shopping and have now found a store that pretty much matches (even beats) online prices. Just a fluke that I found the place, little hole in the wall bearing supply store that has everything truckish. You could by pass the levellers but you would still need a way to supply the bags with air. If you are over a pit you should use a compressor to air up the bus, then listen/use soapy water to find the leaks, if it leaks after 24 hours and then something leaks check then...BTW 1" in 24 hours is still a dream for me (and for others here I'm sure). RE: rear dif/pumkin. you should check the level a few times 'til you know for sure but lots of dif have an oily look round the openings without loosing oil level, it's like that oil is so greasy it oozes out. Good to know yer getting dirty down there, it's really the only way to learn this stuff. Keep on truckin/busin. | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph7)
Registered Member Username: Ralph7 Post Number: 42 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 206.251.5.175 Rating: N/A |
No we did not get on the road, on the 13 of Aug I took J. to the ER, and and after 2 weeks in CRMS, she is now in Hershey, more tests. So I spend many hours at the hospital. But the bus does get some attention, the turbo engine did pull the big hill at 30 mph, on it's way home from the shop, and got warm, next time will shift down to 2nd, it stayed in 3rd I think. I will post when we head West, but try to get me 9-10 pm. | ||
| Glen Rice (Rgrauto)
Registered Member Username: Rgrauto Post Number: 6 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 98.18.119.162 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, This is what I use. In the 70s and 80s ford trucks had mounted under the hood a screw-up jack with a long lever(jack handle) that locked into the jack so you could slide the jack under the vehicle and jack it up.Now you can't jack up the bus with this jack but you can stablelize and stop an allready aired-up bus from droping with 2 jacks,one on each side of eng.cradle(frame mci5a)just behind rear tires. The 250 and 350 jacks had a larger steel plate on bottom of the jacks so they don't sink in the dirt,also a stronger jack. It works for me, Glen | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 138 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 99.199.166.35 Rating: N/A |
you might like to make up a air line to check for leaks. the parts you will need are - a quick change nipple that fits the air hose from your shop compreeor-brass fitings to hook to 1/4 in. air line -- 1/4 in air line 18 ins. is nice length-- shut off valve-- another piece of 1/4 in hose-- brass fittings to hook up to the input port of the air leveling valve. if you assemble as listed, now take the air line out of the leveling valve and replace it with your new made up hose with the shut off. air up the air bag and tuern off the valve, this will trap the air in the air bag. if the bag goes down then you have a leak at the air bag or around the plate. if the bag stays up then you have a bad one way check valve on your levelling valve, it will be the fitting that the air line fits into ,about one in, long, just replace it they are not expensive and you can get them at a parts store, the ones on the buse are far better than the new ones so stay with the old ones if they are ok. | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 157 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.193.31.11 Rating: |
Just a note of warning, never use a jack on a 5A anywhere except at the designated jacking points as shown in the book. You could do permanent damage to the body otherwise. | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 574 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 97.104.13.102  Rating: N/A |
Nellie This is the method I used to isolate leaks in my Air bags and or Height Control Valves. Soak the ENTIRE Height Control Valve with soapy water - put some Glycerine in the water to make the soap bubbles last - if you can't find Glycerine easily - AstroGlide is almost pure Glycerine (for those of you who know it's other use - spare me the jokes guys and girls) - and check for any bubbles in the casing and fittings of the Height Control Valve Next with the airbags inflated - There is usually a small flexible rubber hose on the "discharge port" of the Height Control Valve) - if not, just put some small rubber hose over the nipple and stick the end of the rubber hose in a can of water - IT SHOULD NOT LEAK - if it does - most likely one of the schardder valves (tire valve type) is leaking inside the Height control valve - very easy to replace (just watch that you don't spill the liquid silicon thats inside the valves reserve - next I assume that you have mostly DOT nylon tubing runing in your Leveling System - With air in the air bag - loosen the INPUT line to a "Height Control Valve" (this is the input line - not the one that goes to the air bag ) - caution - this WILL cause the suspension tank to expell all it's air - so do it slowly - when all air stops leaking check that the input port on the HEIGHT CONTROL VALVE that you just removed is not leaking air (that would mean you have a Height control valve CHECK VALVE PROBLEM) -They are cleanable/replaceable) if no leaks in the above steps - assume the height control valve is good Next Soak the entire air bag with that soap solution - look for small bubbles for real small hard to find air bag leaks - this next step is somewhat extreme - look for the airline that goes out of the bag - trace it to the first connection - "that should be the Height Control valve connection" - that fitting should be a "compression fitting - take the brass nut like piece off the fitting - this will allow you to gently pull out the air line - the air line will have a little brass ferrel and most likely an insert in the hole at the end of the tubing. measure the outside dimension of the tubing - go to a truck supply or better yet - a hydraulic / pneumatic supply place - have them build you a little "compression fitting to schradder valve (tire valve) fitting" Put that at the end of the airbag tubing and use shop air and a tire gauge to pump it up to 70 PSI - soak the entire air bag / tube / fitting in soapy water - if you don't find any leaks - leave it overnight anyway and check the air pressure with your tire gauge in the morning yes - I know, that others will stay you MUST cut of and replace the little brass ferrel ring at the end of the tubing (everytime you re-connect a compression fittings) - most of us don't - It will work 99.9 % of the time without leaking - cutting off the end each time and replacing that crushed ferrel shortens the tube every time. If you fix those leaks (in each air bag system) - It will not matter if there are any small leaks further up from the height control valve - they do not effect the air bags during storage - even if the suspension tanks leaks down to nothing - your bus should remain - inflated | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 437 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232 Rating: N/A |
well reminded on proper jacking or blocking for SAFETY & to prevent frame damage, ShadowHackEd. + also when blocking, the ideal is to spread the weight in the correct locations between the air box and the axle boogie frame, I bypass the little stop bumpers and increase the contact area many times. IF you use something like wood or scissor jacks and they fail under the heavy load, you may have a bit of a problem to deal with. ...Especially if your under the bus ... ++Strips of heavy tire tread on a rope work, but you still have to climb under to place the blocking, so you might just do a brake check/ adjust & inspect while your in the coveralls. +++ I often block under the tire for boondocking level, if you use planks, don't let them pinch the tire as they settle with the ground getting wet & compaction. Should be no gapes or joins under contact with the tire. Again maybe some cut up & glued old tire tread would work for ramp construction as well as blocking. ~ one other concern with blocking to bypass the air bags, if your still using your oem automatic leveling valves, if the bus doesn't settle low enough to activate the leveling valve when you air-up again, your blocking will be stuck in there and your leveling valve will not know to inflate automatically, You'll then have to jack the frame up and then remove your blocking before the bus goes off a cruising. Don't block right up to the cruise level, leave at least a inch of room to settle on the block. Those amongst us bus nuts with a much higher chest than average or those other busnuts with bigger than average bellies, may not find it possible to "just" slide under a fully inflated/safely block bus to place blocks in the suspension for boon-docking on the level during those extended parks, perhaps you would be motivated too invent a placement arm from old hacky sticks or something , so the suspension could be blocked standing next to the tire rather than sliding under the bus. Maybe even a install device, but then how to adjust the thickness of blocking without going under??? I'll leave this detail to those with big chests problems. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 256 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 4.249.210.183 Rating: N/A |
Thankee, thankee, thankee for the thoughtful and informative posts. I just wish we could all huddle in one place for about a week, pick each other’s brain and take notes. I’ve got questions and comments but, before going to that, want to send Ralph and Jeannie my love and best wishes. (I would have called, Ralph, but no phone available and no cell service up here. I will try tomorrow, and will send a private email if I miss you. You do the same, okay? I’m thinking to drive up there but don’t want to get in the way… let me know what you think about that.) Pete: I tried all your suggestions except the last one – all my connections are new and all my (primary) lines are copper. I used Aloe Vera gel in place of that “Astro Glide” stuff. Astro Glide? Sounds like something I should maybe check out? Anyway… great trick, that hose to water jug idea. Sure enough, bubbles galore from the discharge port! Plugged the port with a screw (temporary fix) until I hear back from you. Questions: 1) Where would this Schraedder valve be hiding? The height control valve seems awfully small to contain a ‘tire valve type.’ 2) What silicon? 3) What if I just fill the discharge nipple with epoxy and call it good? Okay, I’m an idiot (apologies Howard, but I warned you I’d lift that line). But still, I don’t get why we Bus Nuts need to mess with load levelers - especially after plating the air beams. The levelers only compensate for LOAD, not for bumps and rough roads.. My load – minimum to maximum – varies less than a thousand pounds (depending on water and fuel volumes). Hardly the same as loading and off- loading up to 47 passengers, plus luggage and freight. . People say “But you need them (load-levelers) for driving.” Why? I can’t think of one good reason why we need them at all… pick a comfortable pressure (soft but not squishy) and go on our way. What am I missing? Or am I truly an idiot? I’ll continue to pester you guys, but for now I’m signing off. Time to degrease, scrub the rust and hit the sack. Gee, ain’t it fun? Nellie PS. I’m thinking of switching hobbies – maybe something clean, like golf? PS 2- Impossible to get on line yesterday night… | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 446 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.219 Rating: N/A |
Vive, please stop being a apologetic idiot, you making me feel as though I should start apologizing, and I do apologize for asking you to stop apologizing for being apologetic idiot, the technical term should be busnut, or so they have told me ; real idiots don't apologize for anything, so with that realize, I withdrawal all my apologies. -The biggest need for a automatic leveling valve might be said to be - "to maintain the correct height after a leak down or pressure rise as the temperature rises from use & ambient temperature. A set of gauges & valves on the dash could work fine on tight fresh air pillows like yours, and as bonus, the ability to level when parked (no excess frame twisting though)or momentarily change the ride height for egress onto steep ramps or under overhead obstructions by a slight amount (don't damage the air bags with to much pressure or height). -- if you are referring to the automatic leveling valves, they have silicon fluid in them , and some fancy valving for delayed action. They can be serviced , but you need the procedure and the test setup, likely better to replace them . ---don't forget the soap spray bottle to test your work for leaks & good old spit often works for very temporary lube on rubber items (where you don't want to use petroleum based lubes) if you don't have those other fancy water based lubes in your tool box, but it may dry out before you get the part placed inside on-in-the-other. Maybe you just need to team up with someone that will help you wrench and handle the expense & also desires to do the traveling music gig routine, but then you might find the MC 5 too small for two. ( may I be your caddy , if you decide to take up golf, always wanted to try doing that with a beautiful girl that digs buses) ~ but we are huddled together , virtually, sort of, well not really ! Hell many of the board members can't even chuck there beer caps at me when were huddled over the web. Seems we would need a lot longer than just one week of huddling as these buses are need things, and well so is this busnut, or so it seems ! But hey, sure , why not, some day ~ | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 356 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.77.228.208  Rating: N/A |
Jack Conrads New Years Rally, 10th aniversary in Arcadia Fla, lots of huddeling and music picking! And its warmer than Canada in Dec/Jan. Maybe Ian will make it this year, we will! |
