| Author | Message | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 354 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.77.228.208  Rating: N/A |
I finally went to pick up our 3703 from the former Deans Coach in Raleigh Durham. Flew down on thurs and we spent the day test driving and going over some things. The engine runs strong and the coach rides and tracks well but there seems to be a running hot issue. She warms up as she should but climbing the big hill on I 85 near the shop the temp guage slowly climbs to 195. Using 3 different infareds i think there is a 10 degree difference from the engine readings and the front guage. There is no mechanical unit in the engine bay. Even tho it would climb it did semm to stay at just above 195 at its highest pulling hard on the hill and cooled right down when off the grade. The engine temp seems to corelate with the trans temp which also climbs from 200 to 220 on the hard pull. It was 90 degrees outside and the hottest part of the day. If you stayed off the throttle she ran at 190 on the guage. We both think the trans cooler should have been an air to air. I figured to run at night if need be. After Robert went up to the house i did some straightening up and moving things around till dark. None of the interior lights are wired up now and all the 110 is dissconneted. So i called it a day at dark and went to an auto parts store and then to Radio Shack and then some supper and the cheep hotel with AC and a long shower. I spent all day Friday from 7-6 cleaning 5 years of dust and dirt, welding grime you name it out of the bus. Everytime i touched something i turned black. All of the removed rear bedroom and the bathroom plus left over metal were stacked in the rear which has no floor over the differential or trans. I used a roll of insulation and stacked alternating layers of sheet metal old walls and the doors to make a temp floor to keep heat and noise out. So at 6 pm she smelled like Pinesol but was clean (the interior) and looked like our old bus at least the front 2/3rds. I pulled out of the old Dean's Coach just as the rains let loose! I headed west on 40/85 and fueled up and got a free shower at the Flyin J and took a short nap to wait out the rain. Of course i had no wipers (or interior lights) Rain x worked on this coach when i had younger eyes but maybe i am older and a little wiser. The rain was off and on but pretty hard. I took the time to hook up the CB and try to get some interior lights. I finally made a short dash towards Ashville and ended up halfway there at a WalMart super center near Statesville. There were no temp issues running at night in the rain and at daybreak i started pushing her a little harder as we hit the bigger hills on 40 westbound. She climbed Black mountain ok, i downshifted her at 55 into 3rd to keep the rpms up and our speed went down to 40 and the temp was slowly rising past 195 but no higher and no light or auto shutdown was triggered. I scaled the bus outside of Ashville and she actually weighed 800 lbs less than before the repower (6469 frint axle and 14580 on the rear for a total of 21040 lbs) I cruised into Bernardsville to see Mike and his bus and get some parts he had for me and talk buses. We fixed a thing or two that he spotted (chafing on cooling hose to radiator)and he mentioned that the smaller exhaust pipe dia. could be contributing to the heat issue. We headed out at 3pm to the real test. Up I-26 towards Bristol Tn and up 4000' plus, elevation. We made the first couple of grades with the temp rising but stabilizing but on the final long grade she started climbing towards the 220 mark and my speed was down to 30 and we were only 200 yards from the crest but i had to pull over. I made lunch and 30 minutes later made the crest and did the wild ride down. Jakes worked great altho they only are activated in 4th and 3rd gears. I felt confident now that i could run her and not overheat the new engine if i watched the trans temp and eng temp guages and how hard i hit the hills. The engine cooled right back down after hard pulls. The only problem was with a hot trans and then coming into traffic (NY bridge crossing) Putting her in nuetral and engaging the hi idle switch cooled her down from over 195 to under 195 pretty quickly or keeping her in nuetral to keep the trans temps down a little. Now for the good stuff. She runs great!And is alot quieter than the old 4-71 no muffler type muffler. She really is a Dinah Moe now. I dont miss the 4-71 or the manual trans. No lag between gears and she takes right off and moves thru the gears quickly. I got pretty excited after fueling up in Va. I had used 42 gallons from just outside of Durham and gone 406 miles for 9.7 and this was in hills! ( altho i was taking it pretty easy.) BUT! due to speedometer error it was really 8.8! I am very happy with this! I refueled in NJ and after 499 more miles she took 48.5 gals for a 10.3 mpg! This matches the old 4-71 fuel consumpstion but with a nice riding coach and some nice speeds on the hiways. It has 6V71 hooked to a Allison 644 witha MCI5a drop box and rear with a 3.73 ratio.The rear of the coach is now air ride and new shocks are fabricated and installed on the front. My top speed was 75 (speedometer only reads 80 and it reads 5mph faster than actuall speed) but i think i could get a little more if i tried. It was fun passing road trucks and even a Pete or two. Hey power to weight right? I will have some specific ?'s for everyones input later about our new 1948 GMCI bus, but had to get this off my chest. Dave | ||
| Bill Laird (Billaird99)
Registered Member Username: Billaird99 Post Number: 29 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 24.163.34.244 Rating: N/A |
Glad to see you finally got her. I looked around her a few times when I had my GMC there for repairs. Good luck with it. Bill | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 282 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38 Rating: N/A |
David Did they change the rad to the required one for the new engine? More power = more heat. The smaller exhaust pipe size you mentioned will definately contribute to overheating issues. I put in a new muffler once and it was supposed to do the job but restricted the exhaust flow enough to cause low power and overheating. Changed it to a larger in and out with no more problems. Bill | ||
| Bob Baldwin (Bob4106)
Registered Member Username: Bob4106 Post Number: 176 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 24.74.180.20  Rating: N/A |
David I was there last year buying a few things for my 4106. I saw your bus and talk to Robert about it. He shows me all he had done to it. Told me the deal was made before Dean pass away and was going to finish it. Glad to hear you back with it. I can say this much that the work Robert has done on it was very impressing, looked very well though out and engineered, Hope to hear more good things. Oh what is Dean’s Coach doing now? Do they still have any inventory of parts left upstairs any more. Where are you now with your bus? | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 444 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232  Rating: N/A |
... ahhh , is there anything more pure or simpler than good old fashion "machine love" or more precisely "bus love"??? -indeed , a fine bunch of humans be thy busnutkind ! | ||
| Larry Nelson (Larryn4106)
Registered Member Username: Larryn4106 Post Number: 36 Registered: 8-2008 Posted From: 173.30.230.77 Rating: N/A |
David, didn't you have a fairly fresh engine from Diesel Exchange that I read about in BCM some years back? Or am I dreaming? | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 355 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.77.228.208 Rating: N/A |
Thanks guys for answering in alphabetical order! Thanks Bill and Bill. The radiator is out of a transit coach that had a 6-V71 turbo and just shy in size of the ones they used on the 6V92 repowers they have done. I will try and post a picture of the exhaust setup by this weekend. The power is fine, she almost jumps now when you hit the air throttle but it does seem small. Bob, Robert and Rob (Garry's nephew) both agreed to finish the coach as per the agreement with Garry. Garry died in June of 06. Rob and Robert started a new biz, Carolina Coach Repair (CCR!)and were actually starting to get going, Robert specializes in Coach A/C actually he does everything extremely well, and Rob was getting a handle on the repairs and office work but the IRS and other bad bizniz deals left over haunted them and Rob decieded to get out. All of the picked over hulks on the 20 acres were scrapped last year and Rob is trying to sell whats left of the parts in bulk but still has some stuff to sell. Our bus took a back seat again as they got the new venture started but when they threw in the towel in Dec Robert agreed to work on the bus and finish it for a reasonable price including shop space rental for Rob. The building is now a automotive repair shop Auto tech run by another Dave who does good work just not buses. Robert is setting up a mobile repair truck and working freelance for some of the Charter Co's that know his work. Clint, it has to be love! We have been thru alot but still love the bus (s)! My wife is as nutty as i am. We did the repower to hit the road part time (she is an ER nurse and wants to do the traveling nurse thing. She gave up a great job and went to school and grad. top of her class while working full time to follow the dream. Which brings us to Larry, that was not us with the fresh moter, i think that was one of the silversides guys,has a farm? i remember that story too. Robert rebuilt this engine from scratch, and did a damn fine job of it. I have some pics posted on Ian's great Bus in your facebook section. (GM's have most members guys!) Dinah Moe Dave and Dori and dogs. | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 389 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.145.30 Rating: N/A |
Dave, I'm glad to hear that you got home O.K. after a really good "shakedown" trip. If you got up Black Mountain O.K., you would have gotten to our place too. (7% grade, 4 miles.) Best of luck with Dinah & family. | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 357 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.77.228.208 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Jim, time was so short i wish i could have stopped by. I thought about you and Ned as i cruised by the exit signs but we were on tight schedule and at that time i wasent sure we would be able to run her home. We have some leaks to fix over the cab area and quick get a floor in and we are going to make up for some lost bus time. Hope to see you in Arcadia this winter. We are shooting for a trip to Maine mid Sept and we will see how she pulls with the tow dolly (thanks again!) Dave | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 566 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 64.40.215.248  Rating: N/A |
Dave, I am so impressed with you keeping your dream alive. Do you have any more pictures of the bus? I love the old tried and true coaches of yesteryear. Paul | ||
| ned sanders (Uncle_ned)
Registered Member Username: Uncle_ned Post Number: 70 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 74.235.128.164 Rating: N/A |
Dave If you made it up I40 and I26 without to much heating problems. You are in good shape. We go to western Utah to ride dirt bikes and the hardest pull is from Old Fort to the rest stop at the Tenn line. I believe if you had hit 421 in Winston Salem and ran to Bristol Tenn It would have been closer and you could have stopped and had coffee with me. Come on out to bks and we can have a interior building lesson with Cody as teacher. good luck and hope to meet down the road uncle ned | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 390 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.145.30 Rating: N/A |
Hi Ned, You and I are almost neighbors. We are near Boone. Man, I have goone 421 from Boone to Bristol in a pickup and wouldn't recommend that to anyone in a bus. Old 421 goes winding through the mountains with tons of very sharp curves. I met a semi coming down while I was going up in my F150. He took his half out of the middle as he was coming down around a hairpin. I was on the mountain side and got as close to falling in the ditch as I could & stopped still. The back of his trailer missed me by less than a foot. He never slowed down! Driving anything bigger I would have been hit. Go 321 to Johnson City then I-81 to Bristol. Gentler inclines & straighter road. | ||
| ned sanders (Uncle_ned)
Registered Member Username: Uncle_ned Post Number: 71 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 74.235.128.164 Rating: N/A |
came from bristol speedway with my toad,a 63 econoline to shady valley and then to damascus and across 58 to independence and then home. no problem where in boone are you located. come your way weekley. maybe we can meet and have coffee uncle ned 4104 "HUGGY BEAR" 6v92&730 | ||
| ned sanders (Uncle_ned)
Registered Member Username: Uncle_ned Post Number: 72 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 74.235.128.164 Rating: N/A |
ps if i go I head up 221 out of marion ,then down toward spruce pine to 19e then west to johnson city. but 421 has no cut offs can't get lost | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1610 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9  Rating: N/A |
you have a full fan shroud? Fan blade diameter and number of blades. Consider installing a mister system regardless of taking care of running hot. Injector size? Add an external air to air trans cooler. Don't need that trans to add its heat to rad in your situation. Add Nalcool or equivelant per container specs. to coolant. Sometimes called a water wetter. Helps prevent cavitation on cylinder liners and improves heat transfer. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1679 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.71.103.185  Rating: |
For the rest of the viewers, I think we mean an "oil to air" cooler for the transmission? In other words, a cooler that might resemble a small radiator for running the tranny fluid through that dumps the heat into the air. As opposed to an "oil to water" cooler, where the heat in the tranny oil is passed to the engine coolant, so the engine radiator may dump it to the air. An "air to air" cooler is used for cooling turbo compressed intake air before being routed into the engine. Remember the novices! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 358 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.77.228.208 Rating: N/A |
Sorry Ned, i really wanted to stop by but after being slow with work all summer the long weekend i planned on i ended up needing to be at work Monday am, no fooling. (i did get a steak bisket near Mocksville) 421 moght have put me above Barnardvilles where i was picking up some parts and i wanted to hit the 2 hills that had always put a hurting on the old engine. I havent been on the other board in so long i will check bk's event date. Paul i have lots of pics on the busface on this site but they are to large to post in these posts. I could email some maybe. John there is a fan shroud (homebuilt by Robert) but an upgrade in the fan is a good idea. It has a fixed 6 blade and more blades in nylon should be better. I also need to get the air intake back up out of the engine compartment as it was originally,into the air tunnel. Injectors are not oversized not a bit of smoke ever, i believe they are 65N brown tag, but will have to check. The external air to trans cooler is probably what we will do before next summer. placement could be an issue, Robert suggested in front of the radiator but then we are still putting that heat back to the engine. Thanks again for all the comebacks | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 447 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 70.60.107.113  Rating: N/A |
Jim Bob Wilke wrote "We are near Boone. Man, I have goone 421 from Boone to Bristol in a pickup and wouldn't recommend that to anyone in a bus. Old 421 goes winding through the mountains with tons of very sharp curves." That's sure been my experience with 421 in that part of the State! As I was reading earlier in the thread, I was thinking "a BUS on that road" and Jim confirmed it. (I live just off 421 but it's in the flat lands 40 miles from Wilmington.) | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 392 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.145.30 Rating: N/A |
Ned, we live about 15 miles northeast of Boone in West Jefferson. Let me know when you'll be up in Boone & I'll certainly run over there for a cup of joe. We actually have met briefly at a couple of Jack Conrad's early Bussin rallies. | ||
| ned sanders (Uncle_ned)
Registered Member Username: Uncle_ned Post Number: 73 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 74.235.128.164 Rating: N/A |
Jim I will most likely be in West Jefferson one day next week. We are wireing the new blue ridge building for tel. and data. 828 758 5820 828 493 2300 verizon | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1615 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: N/A |
DMD...oops-meant oil to air. Thanks. Also, put a thermostatically controlled fan on it. | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 393 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 69.77.145.30 Rating: N/A |
Dave, if you installed a used radiator, you might remove the top & bottom tanks & rod it out. Our 4104 would only run about 50mph on flat ground (in Nov.) without overheating but upon opening it I found 60% of the tubes were clogged with tiny rust particles. I made a tool by grinding the teeth off a piece of broken bandsaw blade & with a garden hose, cleaned her out. Result: I can't overheat it now climbing Black Mountain in August! | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 359 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.77.211.20 Rating: N/A |
Hey Jim, no such luck, it was a totally new radiator just a few inches shy of the ones they use on the 6V92 repowers for the 04's. Took her out yesterday for a run after doing a temp block off of the inside tunnel so the only air to and thru the radiator is from the roof opening as it was originally. There aint anything like a Black mountain around here and i never could get her above 175 at all. I am going to rotate the air cleaner and cut a 8" hole right above it so the air horn is in the air chamber fed by the air screen cover on the turn of the corner at the rear also as original. That should drop air inlet temp by many degrees. I am unsure of how to go about running the oil to air cooler. I think we need to go from the trans output to the air cooler and then to the oil cooler connected to the engine cooling so as to keep the oil temp warm in the winter, but placement of the cooler is my problem. I think putting it in front of the radiator defeats the purpose but might put a smaller cooler for the hydraulic fan in front of the radiator with its own electric fan and use the large cooler and fan formely for the hyd. fan for the trans. What i will do right now is nothing. For running over to Pa now and as it gets cooler and down to Arcadia in Dec the temps are fine and i can get some feed back from everyone after they eyeball the set up. There is plenty to do anyway and i want to keep her running!!!!! Robert gave me hell after he found out i went west and hit the hills. I did tell him i would take it easy but i wanted to find out what we had to deal with. Glad you and Uncle Ned are having coffee. Hope to see you again soon. Dave | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1620 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9 Rating: N/A |
Unless you run in below 32 degrees, I wouldn't worry about cold temps. You are using ATF DEXRON? If you are using 30 wt oil, then that could be a problem. If you have a thermostatic fan attached to the cooler, it would warm up just like the engine unit and fan would only run when needed. You'll need a cooler with inlet and outlet sized for those size lines; about 1 inch or 1 1/4 inches. I've seen them sold on EBay regularily. Should be at least 24x24x2 inches. If you run the cooler in series with the one you have, you will lose the benefit of not dumping heat into the engine cooling system. If you run a lot in sub freezing temps, you could parallel the coolers with a thermostatic controlled valve to bypass the air to air in winter. Remember that even in cold temps, that trans will quickly warm the fluid. Maybe a snap on cover to partially restrict air flow like on radiators.(just a thought). You could leave the other cooler in place but capped and bypassed till you find out if cold weather is an issue.Consider that cars and trucks with automatic transmissions have had their oil cooler in the radiator bypassed with no issues in cold weather, including me. Some have also run them in series with no issues also. Most aux oil coolers were added to keep tranny temps under control, not to run engine cooler, as the cooler is mostly placed in front of radiator. Just my thoughts on this. | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 360 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.77.211.20 Rating: N/A |
Thanks John, when someone else states the almost obvious it becomes mostly obvious! lol. Dextron it is and of course we hope to run at temps not much lower than 32 and then hopefully only a couple of days altho we have had some 20 degree days down in fla in Jan! I have a 24 X 24 cooler now just above the rear bumper for the hyd fan and that is what i think I will use or at least where i will put the trans cooler. Thanks again. As to the snap on cover, i used an old mudflap in the winter over the air linlet on the rear roof. It was almost fully covered leaving NY. Half off around Virginia and 1/4 to fully removed by S.Carolina. Just to let you know i think i have improved somewhat since those days. I spent this afternoon resealing around the markers and destination sign. Feels good to be working on her again. | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 363 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.77.211.20 Rating: N/A |
Ok, we just got back from a short run over to Pennsylvannia and back, and we towed Dori's CJ7 on the tow dolly. We left sat afternoon,it was overcast and about 75degrees. we hit light rain in NJ but still had rising engine temps when we hit the hills near the Delaware water gap and the long 5 mile hill at 5% grade leading to 380. We made the hill ok it never got over 195 on the guage but i was a little dissapointed since the outside temps were not that high, but realize towing the jeep was not helping the temps. On route 6 towards the endless mountains she had some hard pulls up some of the hills but overall she did well. The jakes kept the rest of my hair from going gray. Coming back home pulling the empty dolly it was a whole different story, she ran great, temps up going up the hills and down agin as we let off. I did notice a small leak on the hydraulic fan motor but after checking the resovoir will deal with it now at home. We have 1700 miles on the repower now. Dori really appreciates that we can get somewhere and back in three days if we want and how we are not causing traffic delays anymore. We averaged 8.7 mpg on this trip, spent 161.00 on fuel, 60.00 on food and 48.00 bridge tolls (@#$%^&*) Still in love with the repower but the list of things to do is really getting long. I painted the rims this morning before we left and that helped make the old girl (the bus) feel better. The new dog loved the bus. Old dog dident comment on the new engine but dident seem to like the trans whine when downshifting. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1696 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.66.17.156 Rating: N/A |
On the topic of tolls... Make sure you tell them this is your RV. Some places it makes a lot of difference, if they nail you the commercial toll. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 92 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.210.102.209  Rating: N/A |
I good Friend of Ours is a travailing Nurse. She has been all over the place. Her dream was to go to the Grand Caymen Islands and that is where she is now and has worked for the last 4 or 5 years. It is the best thing to reach your Dreams Great Job. I had a dream of living and traveling in a Bus what a great time it has been ( one of many Dreams. Great to have your Coach Back. Rob | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 365 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.77.211.20 Rating: N/A |
Hey BW, i have had more "disscussions" with the the fine folks at the George Washington Bridge in the last 15 years, one time i shut the bus off and sat there. I lost that one too! lol. My beef this time was the tow dolly which i think should not count but of course she rang me up for three axles. We "disscussed" it for a moment but i got popped for 24.00. Then at the Throggs neck bridge (i was still steaming, the dogs went to the rear of the bus) the guy asked about the coach and rang me up as a 2 axle vehicle regular as a car! Rob, Dori is really jumping now to make the move to Pa and hit the road.We probably will start out 3 months at first and work our way up to 6 maybe 9.Even roughin it camping in the bus for the weekend, she cant wait.course now i am the nervous one i have to give up my biz/job and relocate to new area where no one knows me but it seems there is always room for another plumber. What ratio rear end do you have in your bus and what speeds do/can you run with her? I have to start asking ?'s of the MCI's now! And you r right it is great to have the bus back. |
