| Author |
Message |
Ace Welding (216.119.9.61)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 7:02 pm: | |
I bought the MCI-7 that was broken in Deming, NM. It will be my second bus conversion, and I'm wondering the pros and cons of using spray foam VS the hard, foil backed board type. Also wondering if anyone knows of an outfit in the Sacramento or Northern CA area which does sprayed foam installations. Thanks!! |
George Myers (12.85.14.197)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 7:38 pm: | |
We used the foil faced boards and have a video that shows how we did it. It cost about $800 as I recall for the 35 foot bus including 1 inch on the floor. If you can find a spray in hot foam installer, that would probably be a better way to go. We had to cut and place a lot of pieces. Many days of work. The only companies we could find used the cold two part mix spray on foam, which was very expensive and is not considered to be as good. |
Chris Christensen (216.126.222.224)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 8:35 pm: | |
In 1999 I had an outfit in Galt (just south of Sacramento) hot spray poly urethane insulation into my 4905. Sean Lane was the owner/operator and was very cooperative and I was/am very pleased with the job he did.
Their information:
Ervin Lane Co. Inc, 13570 Sargent Ave., Galt, CA 95632. Office: 209-745-1104, Fax: 209-745-1212, Cell: 209-327-2337 State Ont. Lic #386597.
In 1999 it was about $1,500 for the entire job, and I believe it was money well spent.
He did not, and will not do, the shaving.
Chris Christensen
Eagle, ID |
Will MC-7 (12.162.39.178)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 8:50 pm: | |
Ace,
We have an MC-7 also. We used rigid 1-1/2 inch foil faced board from Home Depot. It is easy to use if you have a sharp knife. We are very happy with it. In fact today we came back from several hours of being out and left off the heater and it was toasty warm inside...ouside the wind was blowing about 20 mph the snow is all around us here in Michigan. One thing though is make sure that you seal with spray can foam those darn air return vents inside the drop down floor on the MC-7. also insulate with rigid foam the entire drop down floor area. I wish I had done it, now I will have to do it the hard way. We lived in California at the time and it seemed trivial then. I was too much in a hurry to start my new project then. Oh well, live and learn.
Bottom line; rigid foam has worked real well for us. This is our third and last winter for us in Michigan though, we need to change latitudes.
Will |
Geoff (Geoff) (64.1.0.142)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 9:37 pm: | |
I used a foam board and styrafoam on my RTS. That way if I ever have to get back into a wall or ceiling to add or replace something the insulation comes right out. Have you ever tried to chip out spray foam insulation?
Let me add a tip if you go with the foam board-- a table saw works excellent to cut the stuff, along with a jig saw. Much easier than trying to cut it with a knife cutter.
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA |
jdexsquid (66.32.118.73)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 9:56 pm: | |
I found several building sites that were throwing away the scrap board foam, so I collected all I could. Wound up insulating the entire bus for free, minus the adhesive to glue up the foam board. Works just fine. |
Ace (24.28.44.126)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 10:38 pm: | |
I also used foam board. It was VERY easy to use and it keeps our Eagle as comfortable as we need it! In fact we have been out there working all day and the inside temps never seem to change. Grant, it got up to about 68 here today and tonight it is down to about 45 but it stayed VERY comfortable as the sun went south!
Ace |
FAST FRED (209.26.115.226)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 5:40 am: | |
You will need to cover any insulation very well, as much is flamable , and difficult to put out.
You might want to test BURN a hunk before deciding to live with it.
FAST FRED |
Don KS/TX (67.210.125.236)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 3:22 pm: | |
VERY interesting point Fred, I never thought about the flamablity of the stuff. What is the fire status of the sprayed in stuff, anybody know? |
Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 4:46 pm: | |
About the same horribility for the spray stuff. My experience when welding around it is that the surface "as cured" is harder to catch aflame than ground surfaces, which makes sense because unground there aren't as many open cell walls exposed. But when welding anywhere NEAR ANY foam, ya better have a gloved hand ready to swat it and a fire ext (CO2) ready to squirt it, or ya might be really unhappy at how fast you wipe out your project in a ball of flame!
Cover it though and it's fine. I even weld on outer metal panels that have expanding foam directly on the other side. Air cant get to it so it yells a lot but doesn't burn. Scary yes, but even then I have my CO2 hose nearby and a pre-planned way to deliver the stuff if need be.
Better yet get all the welding done BEOFRE you foam your bus.... but the best laid plans never seem to allow that, at least in my experience...
BTW We went thru this all in a round of posts a couple o' months ago....
Cheers
Gary |
Philip Curtis (152.163.188.227)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 7:00 pm: | |
Went with the fome board afrter our local spray guy tried to jump the price just befor he was to do the job It cost me about $300 dollers to do my MCI 5 2" on the walls and 1 1/2 on the roof it is 50 out side right know and I never turned on the heat today and I'm sweeting at 7pm Just make sure you cut the pannals as tight as posable and use the spray foam the can type to fill voides I even used reflector tape to hold it all on |
Geoff (Geoff) (64.1.0.7)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 8:35 am: | |
I'm looking at page 58 of the Dec '02 Bus Conversions Magazine and wondering what Adrian is going to do if he ever has to work on the right side of his engine. For those of you who don't have the magazine, it appears Adrian is getting ready to foam right over his engine access covers! From a mechanic's point of view I hope you guys are allowing for engine and drive train access holes when you foam out the bus and build your interior...
--Geoff
'82 RTS CA |
FAST FRED (209.26.115.218)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 9:22 am: | |
Geoff , you think he found a FOREVER perfect starter?
FAST FRED |
Lin (65.184.0.189)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 5:39 pm: | |
Just a question that applies to this thread. Our conversion was in progress when we got it. It had been insulated with fiberglass batts. It has seemed adequate and, I would assume easy to do. What is the downside of fiberglass for a bus? |
Ace Welding (216.119.6.36)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 8:10 pm: | |
I don't know what the other possible drawbacks are, but glass has an R value of about 3.5 per inch of material. Closed cell polyurethane (whether board type or sprayed) is between 7 and 8 R per inch. In the typical conversion, you have room for 11/2" to 2" of material. I'd rather have R-14-R-16 than R-7, all other things being equal. |
David Anderson (66.90.194.247)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 9:15 pm: | |
The comments about burning are really true. I had to do a few welds after I spray foamed mine, and that stuff really starts to burn once it gets going. Gives off noxious fumes too. So, just be really careful.
David Anderson |
FAST FRED (209.26.115.226)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 4:49 am: | |
The downside in FG is not usually the R value as most campers only see the 140 roof temp for a few hours in mid summer ,
and with so much window area most are content to move on at much below 20F.
The few that regularly go skiing , or to other winter sports , just spend a bit more for fuel.
The real downside to FG can be that in cool weather there can be condensation from the water vapor in the coach cooling in the insulation.
This water takes the place of the air (the insulation in FG or any insulation) and it becomes very hard to heat.
The mfg of coaches like GM would seal the FG in bags that were paper/tar/paper , that would remain vapor tight for "ever".
Don't know how to copy this , Plastic bag and melted edge seals?
I don't think it would be easy to seal the interior (vapor barrier) as is done on homes.
So I have no solution for long term living aboard in cold climates, except specify a really large furnace , or ??
FAST FRED |
David & Lorna Schinske (Davidschinske) (67.240.192.65)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 2:49 pm: | |
Read on an energy conservation site somewhere that 1" thick foam board is R7, but the thicker the foam is the more R-value per inch there is. Forget the reason. The r-value of spray foam & rigid board is about the same. I would worry about the fiberglass batt stuff seperating from the backing and sliding down to the floor due to the vibration (ever remove fiberglass insulation in an old house?)
Lorna |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (63.224.197.10)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 9:09 pm: | |
Now all you guys have me curious (worried) about the insulation plans for the Banana Boat, my '74 Crown 40-foot 10-wheeler ex-schoolie.
Right now the plan is to use what they call "Reflexix" or "E-Z White" closed cell stuff about five sixteenth inches thick with aluminum foil on one side.
They claim fire proof performance and a "R" value of around 6 for one single thin layer. Yeah, seems too good to me also for the thickness.
I was going to pull the interior roof and wall panels on the Crown and pile this stuff in as many layers as can be squeezed in, then replace the panels. Got about once inch of space.
Then was going to do it again as thick as practical and $possible$ leaving enough roof overhead in the very center of the asle for head room since I am 6 foot 1.
Then cover the insulation with the same plastic sheeting they use in baths and kitchens and stuff using ordinary screws sossss the whole thing can be taken down if need be.
Would I just be better off and do like so many of you people have done and just pay someone who knows what they are going to do the job for me? Questions, questions, except for all the questions, everything is cool. Thanks. CROWNS FOREVER!!!! |
Peter Broadribb (Madbrit) (170.215.38.56)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 11:35 pm: | |
Henry,
The "Reflexix" bubble wrap type insulation issues have been covered here before and there should be references to it all in the archives.
Personally I would use a closed cell insulation board and seal around the edges with canned foam spray. This can be bought in various thicknesses and so can be made to follow the curves of the roof, or it can be slotted and curved that way.
The bubble wrap type depends upon an air gap so you cannot fill in the wall space or you will loose the effectiveness. The 'R" value quoted may be a little on the optomistic side too. I have just bought an enclosed car hauler and that is insulated with the bubble wrap type of insulation. Haven't had a hot day to see how it does as yet.
Peter. |
TonyW (12.228.69.26)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 5:30 pm: | |
Hi Guys,
I just thought I'd add a tip to the thread and that is that a hack saw blade makes quick work of cutting foamboard.
TonyW |
Ross Carlisle (Ross) (216.107.197.172)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, December 22, 2002 - 10:12 pm: | |
"What is the downside of fiberglass for a bus? "
I insulated with fiberglass last fall and installed the wall skins. We just started on the ceiling yesterday. I couldn't get the propane flowing so I used a kerosene space heater to heat the bus up. It burns clean but evidently produces moisture. I noticed this morning when we went to install another ceiling panel that the insulation was wet. I had very bad condensation above the insulation.
I've pulled all of the wet insulation out of the roof area and will rplace it with foam...Probably board. Since I had condensation problems with the roof, I'm also assuming I have the same problem in the walls. After the ceiling is re-insulated and skinned, we are going to pull the wall skins off and foan them as well.
The downside of fiberglass that I see is condensation, not R value. The only reason I'm replacing the fiberglass is because if I don't, I'll be chasing mildew smells for as long as I own this bus.
Also....I think that a large part of my problem came from the kerosene space heater. This may not have been an issue...Or not as big an issue...If I were using the propane furnace.
Ross |
FAST FRED (209.26.115.210)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 2:22 pm: | |
"Also....I think that a large part of my problem came from the kerosene space heater."
ANY unvented heater , no matter what the fuel dumps moisture into the air.
Since the propane furnace is vented , it should be fine.
FAST FRED |