| Author | Message | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 93 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.210.102.209  Rating: N/A |
Ok I found the cover over the compressor and saw that the Oil line for the compressor was is bad shape took it off Not leaking yet but would be soon It was over half way plugged with Sludge. Removed the hose to the sender rack also this was not as plugged I have no presser gage in the rear and the one up front does not work Engine runs great and sounds great! I'll tell you all I know I got the coach 5 years ago in Phoenix drove to Camp Verde, AZ the R-6 valve was leaking air I rebuilt it and took the Trip to Cal to a friend who works on 8v71 his whole life. in Kingmen lost air in a tire so I stopped and had it fixed they had a sale on oil and coolant and lube so I had them do this . Told them strait 40 Wt I thought they did! just before I got to His house the drive shaft Went! towed the bus to his house! when he looked at the parts of the shaft U joints he said they were not lubed! He looked at the Oil and said it was not strait Oil!(Don't Know how he can tell from looking) That Drive Shaft Ripped up under their GOOD! So hit those Zerk's!!!!! I have done all my own oil and Lube since then! So the Coach went about 500 miles with I don't know what! But Not the right OIl! Now I Find Sludge in the lines! Is their an other oil Lines I need to change? Should I take off the Oil Cooler and Clean? Should I also remove the Oil Pan and Clean that out? Is their some kind of flush I can Use on a 8V71N that would be Safe to USE? Someone said Their should Be a Oil gage in the Back? I Guess its time to track down the wires to the new sending unit to the oil gage on the dash also new or at least 2 years when i but them in and didn't work to lasy to find the wires I guess at that time. What Oil pressure should I get at what RPM?? what would you do? Rob | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph7)
Registered Member Username: Ralph7 Post Number: 49 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 206.251.5.175 Rating: N/A |
The oil guage and sending units, one for front guage,one is a low pressure shutdown(likely disconnected), located on the left engine rail. Look in from rear on left engine rail, open left door the oil line feeding the guage manifold comes out of the oil gally, onengine block, near the gear case that drives the alt. As for the oil cooler do not open it, first cover is water than oil cooler, it can be a bear. Next time you change oil, carefully try to feel for sludge, or get an oil pan gasket. use a pit, or ramps. I have had the pan off, it is a real job. One other good thing, is to change the oil filter several times between oil changes. | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 96 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.211.127.162 Rating: N/A |
On the left engine rail I have sending unit, 11 lb low oil sending unit both new 2 years ago no gage the end is plugged I take it was a mechanical unit IE no wires and screwed into the end of the rail so it can be read from the LH engine door? Other sending unit MCI said they advised me not to replace and they have discontinued. that must be the low pressuer shutdown they said it was a 3 lb sending unit! I have 2 1' solid wood ramps makes getting under allot easer also carry blocks for the jacking points as well! I live full time so everything has to come with US :-) | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 276 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.203 Rating: N/A |
Sludge is a natural by product of Delo 100 and 2 strokes. If you start loosening it all up, it could plug an oil hole somewhere and have a seizure. I would not flush it. If you pull just one valve cover and look under it you will understand why not to flush. Change out or flush out the oil line and put it back on the road. Run the filter a few thousand miles, cut it open and take a look. It never hurts to clean the sump or oil cooler if your up for the job. You have to look at the cooler like a little puzzle, because its easy to turn a piece or gasket wrong. Non detergent oils just build up sludge. 2 strokes love it, just keep Delo 100 in it. The compressor oil in should be restricted and that could make it attract sludge right there. I have had lots of 71's that had 0 lbs of oil pressure at idle, hot, and 25 going down the road, and they kept right on rolling. Always wondered about that, it won't work with a 4 stroke but the 71 just keeps rolling along. If it was my engine I would use Delo 100 50 weight in this one. If you think it got dosed with multigrade, since it's so dirty inside, and mulitgrade is higher detergent, I would get it back to non detergent oil soon, but I don't think its been long enough to kill it. The shop that did the grease job could have shaken the drivelines before greasing. They would have caught the bad U joint. It didn't fail recently from being dry, they just wear out after while, wet or dry. A 1710 or bigger U joint can run a lot of miles completely dry, before one fails, they are tough. You are the primary mechanic on this, you should have inspected it or paid to have it inspected before you put it on the highway, I twist or break a driveline once in a great while, but they are not supposed to wear to the point they are spit out from under a rig. I'd just look it over real close, repair what needs some attention and put it into the wind. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1633 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9  Rating: N/A |
The low oil pressure alarm is set at 3 psi because many 8-71's will only have 4 psi at idle hot,(not fast idle, which should raise it to 10 or more psi) and run fine.Anything more than 4 psi is great if you have it. Just so it goes up to 25 or more going down the road. A rear oil gage is nice to have, however it should be attached with a quality high pressure type line with crimped or reusable fittings.Don't want a fatigue oil leak going down the road. If it is mounted direct to the engine, it will have a short life from the engine vibration. Usually, if you run an 8-71 out of oil, pistons will seize in a liner,s before bearings are hurt.You still don't want that to happen though, since other items may be damaged. | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph7)
Registered Member Username: Ralph7 Post Number: 51 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 206.251.5.175 Rating: N/A |
The MCI-7, mc-8 an MC-5 that I worked on had a manual guage in the end of the manifold facing the rear. If you install a guage, remove the plug an run a wire in and then flush, force some fuel oil in an let it drain. IF you try to use the starter you may have a big mess if you do not hold the govenor closed. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1697 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.69.142.215  Rating: N/A |
Engine oil should have detergent in it, not to be confused with the single weight non-detergent oil that is often for sale on the shelf in better stores. Non-detergent is often recommended for use in some hydraulic systems, like my big 5 foot cut lawnmower. The usual Delo/Chevron/PetroCanada/Exxon Detroit Diesel spec low ash 40 wt oil has the detergents in it that are needed. Rob, as noted by others, just change the oil, run it, and short change it in a thousand miles or so. The cleanest engines I've seen on the inside are those that were leaking diesel into the sump... happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 98 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.208.77.19 Rating: N/A |
Thank you I just changed oil about 500 miles ago so will change now and then in a 1000 and change filter in 500 Cut this one open and see whats in their and then also cut open the one in 500 and See Great Info. I have had a hard time finding Delo 100 here and in most places, The other Rotella T can get a lot of places Bummer Have one other place to check here Maybe have to go to Flagstaff Must have it somewhere there when in So cal easy to find for ME :-) I only have 2 gallons left 40wt Larryc ?? why 50wt ?? She doesn't leak mush oil Slobbers Fuel running slow does not like to Idle at all I think its what they call Wet Stacking! Does anyone have DD instructions on how to set the Governor with Jakes??? Rob (Message edited by Robsedona on September 15, 2009) | ||
| Glenn F Campbell (Gfcgfc1)
Registered Member Username: Gfcgfc1 Post Number: 24 Registered: 12-2008 Posted From: 69.171.176.92  Rating: N/A |
Rob if you are in the VERDE VALLEY in AZ than go to Cottonwood AZ next door to NAPA is CARQUEST they Have it or will have it tomorrow. Are you in or near Sedona? Good luck ,GFC | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 277 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.203 Rating: N/A |
Rob, Tejas does the best job of explaining the 50 weight line of thinking. They have some other interesting information over there as well. tejascoach.com I just assumed an engine as dirty as you described was likely in the last half of its life vrs its first half. Look for a Petroleum Distributor, they usually stock most all products, they send out the order to they guy who is getting it for you tomorrow. | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 99 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.209.38.153 Rating: N/A |
Larry after I get the gages working if I don't have good presser I will try! Yes Glen right now we are in Camp Verde and going to Sedona Today! Never Been in Carquest have been in that Napa! Just thought Carquest was another AutoZone! I think and gather from the answers that the multigrade oil got the sludge loose and moved it around Don't know what half life its in but it is a strong engine gives some white smoke at take off after it idles and the longer the light the longer the smoke lasts. White smoke at take off even if its been on fast Idle. and she does Wet Stack I think when I had a Modern Mechanic do the Governor Which does not work right anymore to high on the idle and to low on the high and the Jakes will not come on I need to find out how to set (Not in my books) or find some one in my budget who knows about these that lives around Here I might have someone I will see when he comes over I think next week and if so I will post his Name and # for you Guys. | ||
| Glenn F Campbell (Gfcgfc1)
Registered Member Username: Gfcgfc1 Post Number: 25 Registered: 12-2008 Posted From: 69.171.176.74 Rating: N/A |
Hello Rob , Carquest in Cottonwood is a good auro parts place if you tell them exactly what you want.You have another option while in Cottonwood and Camp Verde. Go out on Hayfield draw right off of Hwy 260 in between Cottonwood and Camp Verde. There is the cardlock fuel stop at that location is the office and they have plenty of oil there it is a warehouse. | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 279 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 64.12.116.203 Rating: N/A |
Rob, Maybe the throttle thing is just linkage adjustment. Try moving the throttle until it just hits the Jake switch, then look to see what has moved or how get it back right. That might fix both issues. The white smoke usually is cold water temperature, if it goes to black with a hot engine. The 71's like to load up. I don't have a 71 anymore, but I always let them warm up and then when I take off, run the engine to the governor in first gear and just hold it against the governor until it cleans itself up. Otherwise you can drive alot of miles until they will dry out and spit the junk out the exhaust. The 71 loves RPM's. If it's not running against the governor, it's not in its sweet spot and its trying to self destruct. Thats why the truckers say "just slam your hand in the door and drive it all day like you are mad at it". I don't think the multigrade got the sludge loose, I think it's likely that the whole inside of the engine looks like the oil line. It's possible the engine has ben rebuilt though and that line has just been there forever. That would be the best out come for you. I'm starting to lean that way. Pull a valve cover, then you will know. These engines in the old non detergent days used to carry a lot of crud around though and keep right on rolling. | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 100 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.209.230.32 Rating: N/A |
I know it was rebuild when they but on the jakes in 87! and changed the injectors to N64 Brown Tag on 6-20-90 valve set cold .015 injector set 1.460. only had black smoke once when I lost was climbing a big hill My fault not watching LOL I do the Pedal to the Metal That the saying I remember that from the other Guys in the 70s I always had MY Big Comealong in a Pete 4X4. That was a lot of years ago Fuel went up I got out! Rob Rob | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 484 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.237.52  Rating: N/A |
you can purchase detergent to put in a "sledge(Y)" motor, right after an oil change and drive with it as normal "or less", only do a filter change half way through the oil life. Dissolves gunk slowly but surely in a safe manner, collecting at the filter. I have used it in many gas engines, not my jimmie yet, but I will. Much less chance of plugging any oil passage , unlike quick solvent flushing , rapidily loosening heavy ancient carbon gunk hard buildup chunks. Change filters more often for more insurance. -Yes there is a chance of " plugging" if you decide to clean , but left alone, that sludge over-build-up eventually may have the possibility of causing blockage of oil flow too; even left alone long enough , neglected. When I do change the oil with the detergent additive, I then add a flush thinner solvent at the next oil change, add it cold,then you idle until warm, let it sit for half hour or so, then restart and high idle again for a few minuets, just before you change oil. Flushing Has worked for me often, even done on engine partial tear downs, so I got a before and after inspection of the sludge buildup, so I might learn how well it works, & not just believe, ( I've not often been a average snake oil consumer in my quest for alternative/innovative mechanical solutions , fixes, and patch-ups ). | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1606 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.182.53.218  Rating: N/A |
Clint - Your flushing technique might be ok for a gasoline engine, but when it comes to our big old two-strokes, hmmmmmm. . . . Main reason is your comment about idling - these beasts cool down when they idle, and do so much more quickly on fast idle. So, in essence, you'd never get the oil/detergent additive warm enough to do any good - even on the two or three days of summer you get in the Okanagan. (LOL!) FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 490 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.237.52 Rating: N/A |
actually the hot summer is way too long, one of the few complaints in the south okanagan, mostly 110 to 115 F , dry as the desert in the valley bottom, as it almost is desert and always too dam sunny from mid june to mid september, give me shade to park in. Spring & Fall are supper weather. But you don't have to drive far to escape the excessive summer heat. Much beauty all over "Beautiful BC" (no bud jokes please, the licence plates say nothing about bud) -The oil detergent doesn't require extreme heat, it is the same as what is commonly added to the oil , only more , for extremely neglected engines. Takes a bit longer than a few days to work much though, and at least a 500 miles or a few thousand miles is better, perhaps a filter change mid mileage. It is pretty mild, so as not to cause damage but stering up a lot of shit all at once ...on the other side of the bus ...the engine oil flush should not be allowed to get very hot, absolutely DO NOT drive or load on the engine, just idle, no heavy load and maybe not more than 30 minuets in several idle period, it is somewhat volatile and thins the oil and dissolves crud & sludge very fast, making it slightly risky, so stand near the off switch is prudent. High idle is better to guarantee maximum flow and flushing effect. Might be well worth while on in-frame. Here say in the old days, when you wouldn't think of buying a jug of snake oil, or selling one, they used kerosene very briefly and with more risk. +one thing that needs to be clarified with the manufacture of any flush product before trying it with a jimmy with a oil cooled DN 50 alternator is , will it hurt the field winding insulation . I assume it comes into contact , or does the engine oil just cool the alternator housing??? I have never taken a DN 50 apart past the drive gear housing ? If it does, one could always temporarily remove & plug the alternator cooling line for assurance, it just wouldn't get flushed out. The detergent additive method first mentioned , would not harm those windings . | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1705 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.69.142.91 Rating: N/A |
For engine flushing, good old diesel fuel does a nice job. Same effect as kerosene. Those who have witnessed the insides of the engine when repairing the fuel jumpers that were leaking will tell you, clean as a whistle! Thinned oil, as noted, is a threat to bearings under load, no driving if you are employing solvents in the crankcase. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 105 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.208.30.72 Rating: N/A |
Buswarrior how much diesel and run for how long??? diesel is an oil after all and yes I get it no load Do not drive! idle or is fast idle ok? Rob | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1707 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.71.102.68 Rating: |
ok, this is just my 2 cents... swinging back and forth on this idea... I would hesitate a long time before feeding the big diesel solvents, first, for the costs involved, second, for fear of disrupting something in an engine of unknown condition. My first strategy would be to short change the oil and filter a couple of times. The Detroit does make its oil black quite easily, so don't be fooled by some normal colouring. It's one thing to flush a small engine, where we're talking a couple gallons of waste, another completely when we're talking 28 gallons, and 14 of those contaminated with some degree of diesel fuel. But if you are determined, I would suggest you need four changes worth of oil and filters, one to use as the flush, one to rinse, one to put in there and drive for a half change and then a fourth to forget about it. See, changing the oil now, which you plan to do anyway, and short changing it again at 1500 miles and again at another 1500 miles is cheaper, and you don't have contaminated oil to deal with. If you want to flush, first, I would be doing my solvent flush with fresh oil and filter, 1 gallon diesel to 6-7 gallons of 40wt. I would run it for some spiritually motivated number of minutes, sometimes on low idle, perhaps some on high, maybe 10, maybe 15 minutes. The sump would have been slightly overfilled in order to cover any scum line inside from sitting prior to my ownership. I would shut it down and leave it overnight for the crud and cleaner to get intimate with one another. I would repeat the spiritual motivated (fearful?) running of the engine again in the AM, then pull the drain plug and filter and leave it to drain out for an hour, or until it stopped wanting to drip. Fill with fresh, run it for 15 minutes on high idle and change it again. Do some mileage, 1500 or so, and change it for the last time and return to your regularly scheduled programming. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 106 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 70.212.226.151 Rating: N/A |
Sounds Good to Me I'll start with the change now 1500 and 1500 and see what I get. Who knows how long those oil lines where on their they are the bought lines all others have been changed to the ends that you can make your own lines. I have a lot of hose but have to find a place that sells the fittings! Thank you Rob | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph7)
Registered Member Username: Ralph7 Post Number: 54 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 206.251.5.175 Rating: N/A |
My MCI-7 sat for 5 years and I drove it from SC to Pa changed oil an filter and it was fine. My present MC-8 set at least 6 years and I got it running, then dropped the pan and checked the bearings, very good, no sludge, but scraped caked hard crud off bottom of pan. First drop that pan, if you desolve that hard caked on crap loose, it will ????????. | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 230 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 208.81.157.90  Rating: N/A |
Risk vs benefit. Solvent: Risk, solvent may break loose more stuff than you want and cause damage even if you have only normal deposits. Benefit, it may clean out some build up if improper oil was used in the past. Short Changing oil: Risk, none other than to your wallet. Benefit, piece of mind and a excuse to put some quick miles on the coach. No solvent and normal oil change schedule: Risk, not sure there is one. If things were/are plugged any damage is already done. Benefit, let the built in detergents do there job and spend your extra money on oil analysis. | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 495 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.237.52 Rating: N/A |
yep-sir-rey flushing is about risk versus benefit. Only if you know it is needed to prevent impending damage from a defect you are correcting, should it be done, such as if your about to open the engine up for some work that will up-set a lot of the local dirty old oil cokeing & at greater risk left as is, unflushed . +flushing will also be disturbing old gaskets & seal to add to the risks side of flushing. So a marginal seal could be caused to leak early, as could a ancient dried up old gasket seepage that was plugged with old crud, before you flush. Adding detergents to new oil and changing oil early has fewer risks. I + I have not used detergent additives in a jimmie or studied adding detergents to a 2 stroke too jimmy ( before this good thought provoking thread ), so one must research first to truly know all the risks is weiser & fruglest of all, call the tech lines from the product manufacturer for starts. Jimmies are very vulnerable about anything that might leave excess ash, if I understand correctly it tends to accumulate around the rings, I assume the problem happens between the bottom two bottom sets of piston/oil rings. Perhaps someone that has taken apart a lot of jimmies and correlated the rings with the "wrong oil used" can shed some experience on this concern of ash content in oil, if detergent increases the levels. | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 108 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.210.208.34 Rating: N/A |
jimmies Never hear a DD 2 Stroke called a Jimmie before? Fuel Squeezer Silver Top 318 and dont remember the rest now. If I remember right GMs are Jimmies no matter the engine> |
