| Author | Message | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 287 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 75.178.92.43  Rating: N/A |
Is there really any difference between off-road and on-road diesel - besides price and that tell tale dye? Before everyone gets their knickers in an uproar, it's just a question... okay? I can't find anything on the web addresses that particular point, but lots of truckers (mostly farm related - milk tankers and such) use the stuff. (If I get too badly flamed I'll withdraw the question)  Nellie Wilson | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 421 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62  Rating: N/A |
No physical difference in the fuel other than the dye......and lack of taxes. I have a separate fuel system for my generator and run offroad in that tank ONLY. | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 142 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 99.199.165.194 Rating: N/A |
the off road diesel is just as it ststes foroff road use off public roads, it is used any where the vel. or equipment does not use a gov. owned road. however it is used to fuel power plants or any secondary motor that is not used to propel theyvel. also boats and farmers can get a permit to use it, the farmers can get a special permit to allow the use of farm related vel. to also use it on gov. roads. the gov. figured it was better to allow them to use it than stop and check all farm trucks if they had marked diesel and the bumb farmers put it in their pickups and thumed their noses at the cops, so if you see a farmer fueling up at marked pump he will have that permit. however they will not give you a permit for use with a grow op. even in Canada or Cal. | ||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 226 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 67.58.201.132  Rating: N/A |
No there is no difference when a farmer gets his tank filled on the farm yard the tanker driver drops a dye tablet in the tank it disolves and colours the fuel. Dont take the chance of useing it for your coach because the fines are quite high. Dave L | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1657 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
The dyed fuel was in the beginning to have more sulfur in it than the undyed stuff. However, I think the requirements changed recently in that all the fuel is supposedly ULSD.Not sure yet on home heating oil. Good for money saving use on diesel generators with a separate fuel tank. If you run it often. | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 165 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.192.196.181 Rating: N/A |
A couple of years ago they had a checkpoint set up between Yuma and Quartzsite and they were testing the fuel tanks on all of the diesel vehicles that were southbound. Probably figured they could catch some of the snowbird farmers using red fuel. As a side note i have been told that if you use it, it can still be detected 5-6 tanks of fuel later, and the fines start at $2500. | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1714 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.132.3  Rating: N/A |
As noted, anyone with a 2007 or newer engine requiring ULSD, must be very sure of what goes in the tank. The plan back then was that any contaminated ULSD, that is, it picked up too much sulfur from the previous product in the pipeline, would be directed to off-road and home heating consumption. I haven't kept up with what they are doing at the moment. Off-road dyed fuel is cheaper because there is less tax on it. Using it in your road going vehicle amounts to tax evasion, that's why the federales get their knickers in quite the twist over its misuse. Otherwise, as noted, it is just diesel. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 983 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.93.90  Rating: N/A |
In Florida, everyone with a pool tells visitors using their pool, that if they pee in the pool, it will turn the water red. It doesn't. Ask how many Busnuts here have ever been stopped and had their tanks checked for "proper" fuel. I didn't think so. This isn't a gestapo nation yet. My bus had #2 fuel oil in it when I bought it. The operator was using it whenever he could, and he ran Charter service. It ran better with the higher sulfur fuel than with this new pee-crud... and that equated to better MPG. (I miss the ol' gal!) | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 292 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 75.178.92.43 Rating: |
Amen, BW & John - Just what I suspected. It seems many folks - including moi - have about reached the tipping point with the "Federales" enforcing crap laws passed by brain dead politicians (whether in the U.S. or Canada). It's all a money grab, and getting worse by the minute. Guess I'm lucky I got no money Nellie Wilson | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 167 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.192.160.111 Rating: N/A |
John, i was stopped at that checkpoint in our bus and the only reason that they did not stick the tank was they had 4-5 rigs ahead of me and limited space to pull off so they just told me to keep on going. | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 129 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
By 2010, all Diesel used in either off road or on road has to be 15ppm sulfur Diesel. On my truck conversion, I have a 150gal tank for my big engine and a 75 gal tank for my gen-they are interconnected with valves just in case. You can run off road in the gen tank, but not with the big engine. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 227 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 67.58.201.14 Rating: N/A |
Ed you are correct in that they can tell if you where useing it because the dye also stains the inside of the fuel filters, inside of air intake tubes. they wont normaly go this far but if they find anything suspicious that is enough to cast the evil eye on you, as all are aware the tax collecters hate to get cheated out of money.!Dave L | ||
| Mel La Plante (Mel_4104)
Registered Member Username: Mel_4104 Post Number: 143 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 64.180.200.31 Rating: N/A |
at one time it was connom to run in to a fuel checkstop, however when we got to the head of the line in Cal. or Az. they just told us to go through without looking at the fuel type. one officer said that us farmers in Can. used so much of it that the tank would show dye even by the time we got to them and if we still had marked fuel the bus was sure getting good mileage and just laughed. here in BC they just lift the hood and look for dye. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 965 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.202.165.190  Rating: N/A |
The Euros go thru this constantly. The "trick" is to extend and weld the fuel fill pipe to the FAR side of the tank (the cops know how long a stick is required to touch the far tank wall). Then use an internal fill .The "old" fill gets legal fuel . Folks with a diesel noisemaker can legally use red fuel for the furnace and noisemaker. There are dual pipe , 3 way valves in the marine store (on a DD you have to switch the return with the supply) that could be cable operated. Do it Your Way , and remember every buck you don't give Uncle is $5 less they will borrow from your grand kids. FF | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 116 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.209.128.236  Rating: N/A |
I hears that in Cal near San Jose they can see the Dye coming out of the tail pipe with equipment? and have busted a lot of ranchers their just pulled them over and gave them the ticket Don't know how true this is! But I would not want to find out ether it is an expansive one! | ||
| Kevin Mossman (Ktmossman)
Registered Member Username: Ktmossman Post Number: 28 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 76.97.219.65 Rating: N/A |
It's pretty simple...don't get between Uncle Sam and the money. You will NOT win. | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 515 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.237.52  Rating: N/A |
uhm??? so MCj9 , does this mean you peaed in your buddies pool to learn there wasn't really any red dye ??? | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 295 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 75.178.92.43 Rating: N/A |
Clint - There is no red dye... it's a myth. Honest. Nellie | ||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 231 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 67.58.201.14 Rating: N/A |
Nellie its your choise to use it or not, but there is dye in farm or offroad diesel it is in this area where I live it is purple the same by Ottawa and where I grew up in Manitoba. Dave L | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 461 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.175.110  Rating: |
David, she was referring to the "dye" in pools colored by urine... Not the offroad diesel... ;) An easy way to "escape" with the dye in your tank is to simply say you were involved in Hurricane Katrina.. (which I was, kindof)... Regular OTR diesel ran out.. all that was left was offroad. They allowed its use during the emergency... Which, of course, now has red dye in nearly every diesel vehicle that passed through the state during that period... My question is... How can you re-process the fuel to remove the dye from the fuel entirely? That'd be a neat trick... -Mac | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 519 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.237.52 Rating: N/A |
.daveeye stop teasing Mak91 by pretending you didn't catch the pool post from Micjay9. ~Viveye, you should know I have a very hard time believing anything, can I pea in your pool and test this "no dye" belief, then we will both know ? or are you also telling me you've peaed in pools too, & know this as a fact ? this is way more flaming than taxation talk | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 520 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.237.52 Rating: N/A |
almost forgot what I was going to post ,,, ask not what you can do to re-process red dye, but what will combine with it and make something else out of that chemical in the clean up process. Hopefully such a reaction would not undue the red dye coloring effect in dyed fuel ,just clean up a system that was burning it, as we don't wish to council tax evasion in a manner that would be liable, just legal ways of conforming to the fuel tax laws, which includes not getting unjustly taxed. :I suspect it is fine to burn no-tax when parked of the highway, even in your drive engine for driving off taxed roadways, running the A/C or heat and battery charge duties. Just make sure to turn off that low tax fuel tank before heading out on the road. Stained equipment is not evidence you are burning purple fuel , just evident that you had, you don't need aqua-hot heating or a diesel generator to prove you only use low tax off road. Read you local tax acts and tell me it ain't so. bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaa +seems that having the fuel receipt and a map to prove how much road taxed fuel you burned since last fill was equal to the miles traveled between the check point & that last fuel station is all the proof one needs to show the inspector to put a end to his doubts, that and a sample from the fuel line of the engine to prove what you are now burning as you get tested. Not that it should be up to the accused to prove his innocence, it is suppose to be up to the accuser to prove you where burning low tax on the road when he tested & ticket you, but I always take the most efficient way to be a responsible citizen with my employee civil servant, our servants obviously need the help ! | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 462 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.175.110 Rating: N/A |
Taxes... I take another route with unreasonable taxation... I don't evade them... I avoid them. I could get into a long debate about it, but... This isn't the thread, nor the place, for it... So I'll leave it at that. -Mac | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 302 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 75.178.92.43 Rating: N/A |
Clint - I have never peed in a pool. I've peed in streams and lakes and the ocean. And once in a bucket (a turquoise bucket, as I recall). But never in a pool... well maybe in an emergency. Nellie Wilson | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 525 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.237.52 Rating: N/A |
then how would you know ? did some one tell you peaing in the pool would turn the dye red ? wait , hey I have never seen a poop turn red, & I am certain I have caught others doing it; perhaps that is why I don't do pools , hummmmmmmmmm truly though provoking, who is near a pool , this needs more research... | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 986 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.93.117 Rating: N/A |
O M G.... what did I start? I guess using fuel oil wasn't a bad idea, since it's not dyed, and man, does that sulfur burn sweet! If you're running a commercial rig, you have receipts and you're taking a tax credit for the taxes you pay for that fuel and deducting fuel expenses from your gains... so yeah, the federale' are gonna' be looking at things. An RVer is an RVer, gas, diesel or sail power... and just like I never had to stop at a weigh station, keep a log book, or keep fuel tax stickers on the side of my RV (S&S, or bus), no dipstick test was ever attempted either. Clint - - Don't pee in the tank, it'll turn the fuel red! If you want me to prove it, come down to Florida and I'll pee in your tank. There. You're in nation. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 306 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 75.178.92.43 Rating: N/A |
Clint - If anybody pees in MY tank, your pecker will turn red... and it won't be from dye. Clint... same goes for poop. Nellie | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 527 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.237.52 Rating: N/A |
how did this thread get turned into peeing in fuel tanks, I thought we were discussing this "red dye myth" about getting cuaght peeing in pools. Your inter-city coach did come with a tank for storing that sort of thing , but it ain't the fuel tanks kids. ~As for having dye stains in your fuel system, that only proves you have burnt low tax in the past, not that it was used on the road, where high tax is required. | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 290 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 24.164.20.23  Rating: N/A |
I have had diesel buses, motor homes and pickups since about 1986. I have never come close to being checked for fuel anywhere. Admittedly, I have not been west of the Mississippi. The biggest problem with off road diesel is the inconvenience. I mean, you can't just pull your bus up to the pump and fill it up. Someone will call the law for sure. That means loading the 50 gallon drums into the pickup, filling them up and transferring to the bus (where no one can see you). In most places you must fill out a form with your name and address and in some cases show a drivers license. That's just at home if you are in a rural area. It's even more difficult on the road. Just doesn't seem like it's worth the trouble, or the blood pressure watching every cop or DOT guy that passes by. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 311 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 75.178.92.43 Rating: N/A |
Maybe I should clear something up. My original post wasn't to get advice how to flout the (stupid and oppressive and unfair) law. As Len just pointed out, the pain of hauling drums would hardly be worth the few bucks saved. But as some of you know, I've been stuck in the boonies (and I mean DEEP in the boonies) for many months. Lots of repairs... lots of testing... lots of fuel burned in the process. And the bus on blocks.. or over a pit and immobile. Ran so low I was near commiting the biggest no-no of all - running a 2-stroke DD out of fuel. Rather than risk that, I added fuel from a farm tank (for dozers and tractors and what not). Seemed to work just dandy, but I've worried it might mess up my engine - though I've seen no signs of that. But never fear, my fellow Bus Nuts - soon as I hit tax payer donated roads, I filled up with the government mandated soak-the-tax-payer-fuel. The same taxpayers that paid for the *^%3* road in the first place. This place is gettin' as bad as Canada... thought Americans didn't put up with such crap. That's the spin we get up North. Or is the entire populace just riding on their old press clippings? Just joking... sort of . Nellie | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 463 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.175.110 Rating: N/A |
Actually, as long as it doesn't LOOK like you're filling a main tank on your coach, and looks like you're filling a supplemental (generator) tank... Can't see why anyone would even look at you twice, much less call the cops. Most people realize that the fuel tank on most coaches and motorhomes are, in fact, up front... Most don't know what SIDE, but that's a different story... If you're filling something up in the back, where fuel tanks for gennies are often found... It'd appear rather normal. If you have a bypass of some sort (electronic, of course), then you could rather easily switch the "running tank" between the front and the rear without raising any apparent red flags... But, nobody would really do that, right? ;) -Mac | ||
| Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Registered Member Username: Rv_safetyman Post Number: 284 Registered: 1-2004 Posted From: 12.147.224.34 Rating: |
Nellie, I HATE political discussions, but how do you propose that public roads be built and maintained? Maybe the smiley face means you were trying to be funny, but it did not sound like it. While our roads are often in less than pristine condition, I shudder to think what they would be like if the users did not support the system. Of all the taxes we pay, I consider this one to be somewhat logical. Jim | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 990 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.81.207 Rating: |
Re: "This place is gettin' as bad as Canada... thought Americans didn't put up with such crap." The answer to that, is at the post above mine! | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 316 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 75.178.92.43 Rating: N/A |
Oooppsee-day-dee! Sorry guys, sounds like I struck a nerve. Guess it's not fair to paint all tax policies with the same brush... kind of like saddling the new boyfriend with the misdeeds of your ex. From here on, I'll drop my Canuck baggage at the border. And I'm sure relieved to hear tax policies down here are scrupulously fair and honest and that all 'road taxes' actually benefit the road users. Nice change from Quebec, where roads receive only 8% of the taxes earmarked for 'roads.' But in all fairness, your roads ARE "pristine" - they make ours look like camel trails. And yeah, Jim, I was giving my yank cousins a little nudge with that last line. That's why I said, "Just joking... sort of." This whole thread (in case you hadn't noticed) became pretty tongue-in-cheek. AND political. Just following suit... didn't mean to offend anyone's sensibilities. Not kidding... sort of . Nellie Wilson | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 972 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.202.165.190 Rating: N/A |
Without the diversion of road taxes all the transit guys would not be getting nice 12 year old coaches at scrap prices! And the Goochi Lofer set would be paying 4x to 10x for their morning commute on Amtrack . In our place in FL they built a one mile long sidewalk to nowhere , a $1,000,000 dumping of highway funds. All for da Publik good , (ha ). FF | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 460 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 70.60.107.113  Rating: N/A |
Nell, to get back to your original concern, you don't have any worries about putting 2009 Off-road/dyed diesel in your bus. Years ago, it could have been high-sulfur, bottom-feeder, out-of-spec garbage, but nowadays just about everywhere that gets mail from the post office and TV reception has Off-road fuel that's ordinary on-road fuel with dye in it. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 318 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 75.178.92.43 Rating: N/A |
Thankee Bruce - That, truly, was my only concern and the info. I was seeking... and the answer I was hoping to get. I am now both enlightened and relieved. Nellie | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 991 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.92.99 Rating: N/A |
Re: "And I'm sure relieved to hear tax policies down here are scrupulously fair and honest and that all 'road taxes' actually benefit the road users. Nice change from Quebec, where roads receive only 8% of the taxes earmarked for 'roads.' But in all fairness, your roads ARE "pristine" - they make ours look like camel trails. " Gotta' love sarcasm! With the cost of vehicle registrations, taxes on all vehicular sales, taxes on tires and parts, regulated fees to dispose of tires, batteries, etc., the use of a few tanks worth of taxes isn't going to amount to a hill of crap. The thought that our roads are maintained by "road fuel taxes", is about as ludicrous as the assumption that our government employees are underpaid. It was intended for this Nation's government to be funded by import fees and tariffs, not by taxation of it's citizens; it's too bad that so many of us has lost sight of that. The roads in Canuckland were great the last time I was there; Have things changed since 1968? | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 320 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 75.178.92.43 Rating: N/A |
John, Honest to God, you wouldn't believe it. Between the frost heaves and the auto-size chuck holes and deteriorated bridges it's truly a driving nightmare. People don't even take Sunday drives anymore. Not just because of fuel costs (nearly twice the U.S. price - mostly attributable to taxes) but the condition of the roads. I know many Vermont and New Hampshire truckers that refuse to take their rigs into Quebec without (what they call) 'hazardous duty pay.' Some won't go, regardless. Of course, we have other really important things we have to fund. Like free health care. We can't access it but, hey, it's free. Gee, if only we had some doctors things might work out swell. But they all come down here. Guess that's about to change? You'll be sorreee. Anyway, John, you said a mouthful. When you tally up all the commercially (and regulatory) streams of 'road tax' revenue, it seems unconscionable to penalize ordinary folks for driving to work. I mean, that work results in tax money too. And nobody - but NOBODY - mentions it, but this recession comes on the heels of the worst gas gouging ever experienced. Commerce dried up, business folded, people suffered... many suffered badly, stacking gas purchases and groceries onto their 30% interest credit cards. But did the government slack off? Heck no! They were raking it in (so they could build Fred's 'sidewalks to nowhere'). Love ya John! Nellie | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 538 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.237.52 Rating: N/A |
...turns out the road to nowhere was a reasonable 1OO grand, they consumed the other nine hundred in administrative costs... kind of like why they built all those pyramids around the world, same scam , just piled differently. |
