| Author | Message | ||
| hojji firemaker (Hojjifiremaker)
Registered Member Username: Hojjifiremaker Post Number: 34 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 67.142.162.37  Rating: N/A |
Ok. The 8" manual looked too thick and intimidating (there is a joke in there for someone, BUT I AM NOT TOUCHING IT), so I didn't consult it. Typical. I replaced my primary fuel filter without turning off the fuel line valve (because that is how you do it on a normal gasoline run car), and simply replaced the filter... I ran it for a little bit, and now it won't start. I checked the batteries (not knowing what the problem is) and thinking that the voltage was maybe too low on the older one, went and spent $200 on a new one. damn! ugh sucks replacing unbroken parts... Anyways, I have been reading the manual from cover to cover since... (better late then never), but though it is enormous, it doesn't go into that much detail on priming the fuel pump (which is apparently the problem that is caused from replacing the filter without turning off the fuel line valve first, and replacing the filter empty of diesel... OK, so now I am trying to remedy this self imposed dilemma... The book says I need to "remove the fuel line coming from the fuel pump, then apply fuel under pressure (60-80 psi) into the inlet of the secondary filter. If the system is to be purged of air as well, allow fuel to flow freely from the fuel return line until a solid stream without air bubbles is observed"... Ok this sounds all pretty straight forward except the part about adding fuel under pressure... (the most important part)... I could see adding air with a compressor to push the fuel through the line, but HOW DO I ADD FUEL UNDER PRESSURE? | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 118 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.209.128.236  Rating: N/A |
On mine next to the fuel tank filler is a air vent with a whistle screwed into it all I have to do is unscrew the whistle and but the air hose in this vent at 70psi do not know about the 8s Rob | ||
| hojji firemaker (Hojjifiremaker)
Registered Member Username: Hojjifiremaker Post Number: 35 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 67.142.162.37 Rating: N/A |
cool, I'll try that | ||
| hojji firemaker (Hojjifiremaker)
Registered Member Username: Hojjifiremaker Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 67.142.162.37 Rating: N/A |
I don't have a whistle (that I can Find) on my fuel tank. | ||
| hojji firemaker (Hojjifiremaker)
Registered Member Username: Hojjifiremaker Post Number: 37 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 67.142.162.37 Rating: N/A |
I looked on a Big Rig forum, and found this pertaining to my problem that someone else had... "if it doesnt start all i have to do is take the fuel line off the fuel pump that leads to the front fuel filter and put some fuel in it and spray a little starting fluid and it will start right up." from that, it doesn't sound like he is adding fuel under pressure. I am getting the feeling he is just pouring a little down the hose to prime it like you would a water pump. One of you must have had to do this before... I will try that If I don't hear from any of you, hopefully I won't burn up my starter or run the pump dry for too long trying... | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 580 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 97.104.13.102  Rating: |
First - here's the usual flow of Fuel in our buses A - From the Fuel tank pickup to the "check valve" - The check valve is there to prevent fuel from running back to the tank on shutdown "check valves can be anywhere between the pickup and the first filter - the usually places are the bulkhead - or at the first filter B - the first filter in called the "PRIMARY" filter - that will be the one closet "in line" with the fuel tank - now it may not be the one that is physically closest to the Fuel tank - just look at the lines coming from the fuel tank and follow it to the PRIMARY FILTER - now - there will also be a return fuel line going back to the fuel tank - if you follow that path that will lead back to the engine and not a filter - so go follow the OTHER fuel line C - now that you found the "PRIMARY Filter - most will have a THIRD PORT on the filter housing with a plug in it - the plugs are USUALLY 1/4" inch pipe thread (commonly refereed to as 1/4 NPT - national pipe tread) - don't be fooled the 1/4 refers to the APPROXIMATE inside diameter of that pipe - this is where you would install a 1/4 " pipe thread to BARBED (Lowes / Home depot / Ace) fitting to attach the hose and of the garden sprayer full of fuel D - from the primary filter - next is the FUEL pump - followed by the SECONDARY fuel filter - to the engine (sometimes left and right side split off E - The overflow fuel (fuel not used by the injectors - about 90% is not used) will return back to the fuel tank thru a very important "RESTRICTION VALVE" The RESTRICTION is there to maintain fuel pressure (which is about low of 15 psi at idle to a regulated (by the fuel pump pressure relief spring) to 50-60 psi at 1200 rpms and above - note the fuel pressure at the input side of the fuel pump and primary filter is about 6" to 12" of vacuum that is the sucking power of the fuel pump - 6" indicates a clean filter - 12" could indicated a clogged filter. Fill the filter (primary and secondary ) with fuel - fill the garden sprayer with fuel - remove the spray nozzle from the end of the sprayer hose - attach the garden sprayer hose to the barbed fitting on the primary filter with a hose clamp and GENTLY pump at least ½ of the garden sprayers fuel into the engine - IF a DETROIT DIESEL FUEL PUMP BECOMES AIR BOUND (no FUEL IN THE PUMP) THEY WILL NOT SUCK FUEL - this is why you need to push fuel into the primary - thru the pump and into the secondary and up to the engine to do a PROPER job of PRIMING YOUR DETROIT ENGINE Pete RTS/Daytona (Message edited by pete_rts/Daytona on September 26, 2009) | ||
| hojji firemaker (Hojjifiremaker)
Registered Member Username: Hojjifiremaker Post Number: 38 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 67.142.162.37 Rating: N/A |
genius! thank you! | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 580 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 64.40.209.13  Rating: N/A |
Pete, In you opinion is the garden sprayer the best way, or a small 12 or 24v pump which ever is required? | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 168 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.193.197.119 Rating: N/A |
The PO of my bus used a 24 volt pump when he ran out of fuel......so far i have never run out and have never lost prime when i have changed my filters. | ||
| Roy Childs (Rchilds)
Registered Member Username: Rchilds Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 142.161.164.103 Rating: N/A |
On an 8v92 all you need is a simply hand squeeze bulb for syphoning fuel and remove the top line off the fuel pump( it feeds the injectors ) and connect the discharge end of the syphon hose to the line and the suction end of the hose in a gallon of fuel. Squeeze the bulb until it is pressured up with fuel and hit the starter. It will fire right up. As the engine runs you will need to squeeze the bulb a few times until the fuel comes shooting out the fuel pump. When the fuel shoots out shut it down reconnect the line to the pump and restart it. Works every time. | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 514 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.237.52  Rating: N/A |
on my my 8V71- close the fuel line valve , on the engine side of that valve , I took the plug out of the same tee where that valve is blocked in and replaced it with a another shutoff vlave with a nipple, open the valve , and connect hose , then to a 12 volt fuel pump & finaly into into a jug of fuel. run the little pump for a minuet and start up the bus. Re-open the fuel line to the bus tank and close the one to the jug of fuel. ~ Simple,cheap & I don't think the little electic $80 pump puts out much pressure, all you need is to fill the filter and rail. | ||
| hojji firemaker (Hojjifiremaker)
Registered Member Username: Hojjifiremaker Post Number: 39 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 67.142.162.34 Rating: N/A |
mine is a 8v92... I don't have a squeeze bulb, but I do have a planter sprayer... or shall I say my wife does... She is not going to be pleased to find out I used it for diesel when she gets home from visiting friends over the weekend... oh well... If I had just turned off the fuel line valve, all this trouble could have been prevented. I am not that familiar with diesel. It will burn, but it will not explode. right? | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 516 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.237.52 Rating: N/A |
I'd be more concerned about your wife exploding or blame it on the dog ! + Diesel on the other hand wouldn't be much good if it didn't explode or even burn. It is not as volitle as "gas"oline, but do keep open spark or flame away from all combusables, including diesel"Oil" Some sparyers may not last to long , depending what the seals and hose are with. | ||
| David Lower (Dave_l)
Registered Member Username: Dave_l Post Number: 232 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 67.58.201.14  Rating: N/A |
Clint I like that way of doing it you could put a cigarett lighter plug on the bulk head and then you would be able to take a pump and other bits with you plus the plug would be there to plug a service light in to and it sounds inexpensive! Hojji take out and open your manual it probably tells you how to do this, the book really aint that scary. Dave L | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 604 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.155.14  Rating: N/A |
On another thread here. Where the fuel line comes into the filter and after the check valve, a tee was installed with a valve and a pump was installed on the line and reconected so you can turn the pump on and get the fuel up to the engine and after starting gradually close the valve so the main fuel pump takes over and then turn the pump off and hit the road. I hope this helps. Gomer | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 781 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.54.207 Rating: N/A |
Guys I have used the in line flow through fuel pump for years on mine to prime. No valves or plumbing just a 12 volt power supply they cost around 70 bucks | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 518 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.237.52 Rating: N/A |
cheap cheap cheap and many other uses for this little pump. I just hook to any 12 volt supply like a batter booster pack or another vehicle or a loose car battery, what ever is handy to where ever I must pump what ever. ~One could permanently install if they thought they were going to have fuel bleed down problems often, such as leaky lines that should be replaced, but then you couldn't use it elsewhere, which I do often enough. Cheap & high value for the buck if you think outside the bus. So is a spary, except only good for fuel (if it holds up) and is big. Sprayers are cheap too, I have one onboard for spraying soap/simple green at bus wash time, and for a camp fire accessory but if I was going to use it for fuel, that is all it would be good for. If one had a strong jerry can for fuel sortage on board, it would not take much effort to permit low air presureisation and make it do this double duty. That should prove to be cheaper than a electiric pump from napa. | ||
| doug yes (Dougg)
Registered Member Username: Dougg Post Number: 101 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 67.142.161.31 Rating: N/A |
Notice that all new Freightliners, Detroits and MCI's use a Fuel Pro filter, available at Freightliner dealers. This single filter replaces the old 2 filter setup. To change the filter just remove the top, change the element in the clear container. fill with fuel, replace the top and start the engine. I mounted ours in the old poop tank bay, near the door, for easy access. They also come with a heater option for Artic circle residents and straight veg oil users. | ||
| hojji firemaker (Hojjifiremaker)
Registered Member Username: Hojjifiremaker Post Number: 40 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 67.142.162.33 Rating: |
It fired right up!!! Thanks so much guys! I am going to get a good feel for this motor one step (break down) at a time... What I ended up doing was a hybrid of Pete/RTS Daytona's idea, the book, and my own common sense... I filled up the fuel filters with diesel, then at first I removed the line going into the 2nd filter off of the fuel pump... I installed the garden sprayer (without the wife noticing... yet...) to some clear 1/2 poly tubing with a zip tie, and then ran it to the end of the fuel line going into the 2nd filter... I pumped away, but it was just backing up... so I disconnected the little cap (it is a secondary in) on top of the fuel filter, and connected the poly tubing with zip tie to that... I pumped away and the fuel started coming out the first line I had disconnected... I reattached it, loosely, then pumped a little more so to let a bit of fuel drip out of it as I tightened it up the rest of the way... FIRED RIGHT UP! You guys are the best! I ask for so much advice from you so often I am feeling a bit guilty, but someday, I'll be able to pass it on to my generation. Thanks ALOT!!! | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 123 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.211.140.187 Rating: N/A |
Notice that all new Freightliners, Detroits and MCI's use a Fuel Pro filter, available at Freightliner dealers. This single filter replaces the old 2 filter setup. ? Whey you go to one filter how do you plumb for the missing filter it now goes PF to pump to SF to rack do you just go Filter to pump to rack? or to pump to filter to rack? Rob | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 285 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38 Rating: N/A |
Rob There is a kit available to bypass the secondary filter. You can also just connect the in and out lines on the secondary filter with a joiner. Cheaper. I left my secondary filter in place although it isn't necessary. I understand Cat uses a Fuel Pro and secondary filter set up. Bill | ||
| doug yes (Dougg)
Registered Member Username: Dougg Post Number: 102 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 67.142.161.36 Rating: N/A |
Bill is right on. I also added valves on the in and out of the Fuel Pro so everything was in reach at the side engine bay door. | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 169 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.193.89.79 Rating: N/A |
I just ran a new Cat roller today an i believe it is set up with a toggle switch right next to the fuel filters that evidently turns on a built in pump to prime the system if needed. Will take a closer look at it in the next few days and see how it is set up. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 971 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.202.165.190  Rating: N/A |
We have used 2 different methods. A car hyd brake vaccume bleader will suck hard enough to prime.Small to carry and usefull for the towd. DD has a hand pump ($65) that is ordinarily used to trouble shoot , by hand pressurizing the fuel system ,to look for weeping jumper tubes. Nice to have ,in the tool kit and will pressurize and prime the filters as needed. FF | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 461 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 70.60.107.113  Rating: N/A |
My bus has a couple of "loss of prime/air lock" conditions (air before the first filter, air in the injector lines, etc.). I think that everyone should have the tools to prime (or circulate fuel) for any condition and know how to do it. My bus came with a couple of "window screen" fuel filters. It now has a 2 mu/ North American-made filter and water precipitator. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 932 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.211.76.27 Rating: N/A |
Are all these "problems" DD specific...or Diesel in general?....gosh...eight years now and haven't experienced anything near what has been discussed.... But then, I have a Cummins... and keep the tank reasonably "full" (measured with a "stick, if in doubt) What gives???  Thanx RCB | ||
| hojji firemaker (Hojjifiremaker)
Registered Member Username: Hojjifiremaker Post Number: 42 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 67.142.162.37 Rating: N/A |
R.C., I started this thread about priming the fuel pump not because I ran out of fuel, I have tons of fuel, but because I changed my fuel filters and did not fill the new fuel filters with diesel and turn off the fuel line valve on the primary fuel filter.... Thus allowing air into my fuel lines. I had run it for about 5-10 minutes (and then turned it off) and it has sucked all the existing fuel out of the lines, but with the filters empty, there was no fuel left to pump.... I had thought the battery was dead etc upon trying to start it again days later... and once discovering that it was a lack of fuel issue, found the need to find out how to prime the pump and expel the air from the lines. It was no fault of the engine, just a self inflicted operator error. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 933 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.210.246.8 Rating: N/A |
Hoji....sorry...just didn't read "close enuf", I suppose. Thanx for your "gentle reminder". Glad you got it squared away. Guess all those things that come from the manufacturer are on there for good reason...shutoff valves in this case, right? Ain't this hobby "fun"? Lots'a things to experience... Best wishes, RCB | ||
| Arthur J Griffith (Arthurseagle)
Registered Member Username: Arthurseagle Post Number: 65 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 72.236.102.234 Rating: N/A |
I Recently installed a Raycor filter in place of my primary filter. Saw it at a FMCA convention. I just had to have it. (you know the feeling) It has a fuel pump built in,(on top) Has sensor probes to detect water in the bottom with a control panel with LED's and switch. Really a neat deal. When I installed it (dry) I hit the switch and the filter was full in just a few seconds. I craked the vent cap on the secondary filter, hit the push button switch again and the air passed started squirting fuel in less than a second. Cranked her up, fired right up with not even a grunt. Boy was I ever Happy. Now I have to figure out how I am going to pay off that Mtg. I took out to pay for the DAM thing. just kidding. Happy Bussing. ARTHUR | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 937 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.210.246.8 Rating: N/A |
Arthur...which model?. Thanx RCB | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 130 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.210.57.235 Rating: N/A |
Arthur... Who makes the Filter and Pump? | ||
| Arthur J Griffith (Arthurseagle)
Registered Member Username: Arthurseagle Post Number: 66 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 72.236.102.187 Rating: N/A |
RCB & ROB, Sorry I did not respond sooner. Have been away. They have three models with the pumping feature. (as of 2007) 745R30, 760R30, 790R30. The second and third numbers indicate the GPH. I used the 790R30 on my Eagle (6V92). All three units looked the same but the filters were progressly shorter. I don't know if Racor makes their own filters or not. (probably not) I received two filters with the unit. They have RACOR/PARKER markings on the filter. The filters also come in three different microns of filtration for each model. 2, 10, 30. Have a Great Day ARTHUR |
