| Author | Message | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 484 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.175.110  Rating: N/A |
Ok. Anyone got ideas on how to eliminate the door handle on the 4905's and replace it with a system that's a bit more modern, easier to operate and allow the space currently taken up by the handle to be used for something more useful? I'd like to extend the dash into the door handle area, but the stupid handle will be in the way as it was on the burned 4905... Is there a way to replace this mechanism with something else that works just as well, if not better, and modernizing the entry system? -Mac | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1625 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.182.53.218  Rating: N/A |
Mac - One of the really nice things about the OEM door closer mechanism is that when it's adjusted properly, it is by far the best way to close and keep that big door closed and quiet (w/ good weatherstripping, of course) while running down the boulevards and byways. Nearly everyone I've talked to over the years who's removed the factory closer says it's very difficult to keep the door quiet - cannot get it tight enough. That being said, newer MCIs use air pressure to open/close the front door, so you might look into what they're doing. The fact this adds another potential source of an annoying air leak is, naturally, inconsequential. . . IMHO, I think you should keep the OEM dashboard - maybe just update the instruments - because it's really a good example of industrial engineering that works. It's not a disaster like the 4106 and 4107 instrument panels are. FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 619 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.155.14  Rating: N/A |
Mac; I have somewhere in this computor? I have a complete installation and part numbers for replacing the old mechanisn in the door with a inside/outside assembly. If I can figure how to cut and paste I will put it out for all to copy. Gomer | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 265 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 96.42.4.250  Rating: N/A |
RJ. what makes the 4107 dash a disaster? I don't seem to have any problems with mine, so maybe I'm just lucky? | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 487 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.175.110 Rating: N/A |
The reason I want to replace the dash is that it's outdated. Things are likely not to function or function poorly and I want to update the instruments and how information is relayed. As I said in one of my older posts, I'm going to be designing my own instrument panel. Mostly digital, but the important stuff will still have the analog gauges with digital tie-ins (for alarms, warnings, buzzers, whatever)... There will eventually be two screens. One will be the main "heads up display" type interface that sits just below the line of vision for quick reading without removing my eyes from the road, the other will be a navigation system off to the right, where the door handle sits is where I'd like to put it. I intend to build my own dashboard from either fiberglass (somewhat difficult to work with and get complex shapes, as you all know) or a urethane product using an injection molding process that I've been looking into. The fiberglass would have a shorter production time, but be subject to breakdown from the sun, moisture, etc over time... The urethane would be high impact, high heat resistance type and the molding process would be MUCH more complex, but the end result would be much higher quality, and wouldn't require painting as I could use different color urethane to produce various effects without the need to paint. Things like inlaid text or designs and patterns could be produced with little effort once the base mold had been created. Yes, the existing dash is functional. It works... But I find that, in a 4905 at least, I have to move my eyes further from the road than I prefer in order to read the instruments. And the way the steering wheel is placed, I find I often have to shift around to look through the wheel to see all of some of the gauges. It just blocks my vision and makes my overall driving experience less safe in a crowded situation. Now, keep in mind that this is a very long term project. It's not something I'm going to be starting when I get the bus back here. It's something that I'd like to do a couple of YEARS from now. I've been doing a lot of research into how to create fiberglass and urethane molded products... It's not as difficult to do as I previously thought it would be. Because of that, I'll eventually get into the fabrication of my own replacement plastic/fiberglass parts. Things like the headlight cowls I'll redo with urethane instead of fiberglass. It'll stand up to time better and retain its shape and color over time as well. If the mold gets set up properly, who knows? Maybe I could start supplying some of these parts to others who want/need them? I'm good with my hands, my mind and hands are about all I have left these days... So, I figure I'd better use them while they're still functioning! Maybe this will lead to a business opportunity of some sort... Making and supplying parts that nobody else bothers with anymore... It might be a nice niche market. Who knows? Anyway, back to the door handle.... Perhaps there's a way to keep the stock mechanism, but remove the need for the handle... Maybe some sort of hydraulic setup? A small hydraulic push/pull piston could pack enough power to push the handle lock into place... A simple catch system could "snare" the components needed for that operation... The rest of it, opening and closing the door, maybe air power that? A belt driven power steering pump with a hefty starter to drive the pump could provide the power needed for the hydraulics... Many of the slideouts I've seen use just such a setup for the hydraulics... Just a power steering pump driven by a starter motor. I'd prefer to NOT have the door open/close hydraulically... After all, if something got in the way, hydraulics have no give or stop to them... At least with pneumatics, there'd be a buffer zone if something was in the way. -Mac | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1627 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.182.53.218 Rating: N/A |
John - The 4107/4903 dash is not a disaster mechanically at all, it's very reliable, as is the 4106's. However, for me, I was forever banging my knees on the switch panel that runs horizontally across the bottom, due to how I had to position the seat. I'm not that short, but to get a correct ergonomic position for an 8 hour run, it put me closer to the dash, which equaled a sore left kneecap. Better that than a sore back, however! The early Prevost (Champion & LeMirage) dashes were similar, same problem for me. The 4106 dash is shared with the Fishbowls of the same vintage, and it's blah, no aesthetics to it at all. Personally, I think GMC's best bus dashboards were the 4104/Scenic (same dash) and the 4905. Great examples of industrial functionality. I also liked the fact the 4905's has integrated A/C vents, too. Mac - I hear you when you say it's a dated dash - but then, so is the rest of the coach! But the nice thing about these is that both instrument cluster panels can be removed from the main dash assembly, so it's easy to reconfigure. (BTW, the main assembly is fiberglass.) Your comment about the steering wheel being in the way of your line of sight makes me wonder if the wheel alignment was off, as I believe the "normal" position when going straight is one spoke at 12, the others at 4 & 8. Again, I suggest you look into how MCI operates their doors with air, starting with the "A" series, if you remove the stock closer. FWIW & HTH. . . (Message edited by rjlong on October 13, 2009) | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1695 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
My Brill had a pneumatic operated door. Used an air cylinder in place of the pull rod and had an air control valve at the driver's door to operate it. It had open-neutral-close. Worked pretty nice. Probably, an outside control also would be nice, with the addition of a key operated dead bolt when you are away. | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 489 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.175.110 Rating: N/A |
RJ... Like you, I'm not a small guy. I'm 6'0" tall, but... I have to sit back quite a bit when I drive anything for any length of time because of my neck and back issues... Since the wheel isn't a tilt wheel, the horizontal plane it creates is in my line of sight to the dash... Basically, all I'd really like to do is raise the cluster above the steering wheel, maybe even give it a raise/lower capability to adjust the entire dash and if possible, put a tilt wheel in. Those two things would solve all my visibility problems, but of course... Probably isn't feasible... But still something for me to look at later on... I'm sure there's another solution as well that I haven't thought of... But the other reason I'd like to ditch the manual door system is that, at least with the bus I had, the force required to open/close the door actually caused pain in my back and shoulder. Maybe it was just that particular bus (the door itself was bent, remember...) And perhaps this new one won't have that problem... It was only minor and the pain never lasted more than a few minutes, but it's something I take into consideration for everything I do. I build and create things that center around convenience, ease of operation and reliability. I prefer to only have to do something once and be done with it, but at the same time I love to create something unique, that nobody else has and show it off. That's just how I am. So, if I can update the dash system in the bus and digitize it, while maintaining reliability, functionality and improve its aesthetics... I'll do it. If it turns out to be a nightmare to even attempt it... I'll forget it and just add to the existing panel. I'm fine either way, but I'd prefer to eventually be able to run everything in the bus from not only the dash panel, but also from a remote panel or even over a WiFi network link... Things like generator function, starting/stopping the engine, fast idle, etc... I'd even eventually like to update the entry and ignition system to use an iButton for access and control... Even an RFID function would be interesting... I like to tinker. -Mac | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 984 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 75.60.109.64  Rating: N/A |
I like to tinker. :-) Who would have thunk that? FF |