| Author | Message | ||
| Jerry Coombs (Jerry_c)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_c Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 75.132.177.5  Rating: N/A |
Finally getting around to trying to fix the oil leaks around my 4106 cooling fan torus / clutch -- the engine driven / oil coupled radiator fan whose rotational speed is adjusted with a thermostat in one of the coolant lines relulating how much oil returns to the oil pan. Got a seal kit coming from US Coach and currently getting to the area and taking things apart. Wish all the "da books" I have had a chapter about this thing -- Any available? WHILE I'M IN THERE -- I'd really like to remove the old AC drive shaft gear and put on a block off plate (one of the major leak areas) - don't suppose a ready made one is available but found sources for aluminum plate to make one. I'd guess that if I made one out of steel the expansion rate of the steel being different than the surrounding alumimum parts would soon cause leaks? Aluminum plates of all types of AL 2024, 3003, 5052, 6061, 7075.... descriptions don't seem to say which one is best any ideas? 1/4" or 5/16 thick? This thermostat controlling the return oil flow to the oil pan and thus the fan turning speed -- a dissembly seems to indicate it is somewhat adjustable but I'd have to find a way to seal the threads and make sure it doesn't move(locktite?) any info on its "adjustment"? Thanks ahead to you all whose posts have kept me informed and at times amused over many years now. - Jerry | ||
| Bob Baldwin (Bob4106)
Registered Member Username: Bob4106 Post Number: 186 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 24.74.180.20  Rating: N/A |
Jerry Doing the seal on the fan drive is not that hard. I did also remove the old AC drive. I use the old gasket for the bolt holes and use 1/4 aluminum. I would not feel good about using anything but aluminum. The oil line looks to me to be a AN type fitting that should not leak. Maybe the fitting that goes in to the pan and fan drive could use some type of thread seal. Luke at US coach would be the right person to talk about the thermostatically operated valve. | ||
| Jerry Coombs (Jerry_c)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_c Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 75.132.177.5 Rating: N/A |
any other help gang? seal / gasket kit should be here from US Coach any day now -- if it EVER stops raining here in the St Louis area I can get to work on it. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 991 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.41  Rating: N/A |
Let us know what you find . I will be pulling the muffler in 2 weeks to do just what you are doing. On our snowbird ride South we got 200mpg ! of lube oil . The trailer looked like it was at an Texas oil strike , tho the oil was DD black. FF | ||
| Jerry Coombs (Jerry_c)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_c Post Number: 19 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 75.132.177.5 Rating: N/A |
Decided on removing the old AC pully and driven gear assembly and put on a 1/4" aluminum block off plate. Took apart the torus front half, put in a new seal on the fan drive shaft and new seal between torus halfs. New oil hoses from the torus to the temp sensor controling mechanism on the lower radiator pipe and to the engine sump. Put grey silicone on both gasket sides and made sure the oil passages from both torus halfs was clear. Will start it up tomorrow and see if any FEWER oil leaks. stay tuned -- at least the weather in St Louis is cooperating!  | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 648 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.155.14  Rating: N/A |
keep up the goood work and glad to hear all is going well. Gomer | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 992 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.16 Rating: N/A |
Will start it up tomorrow and see if any FEWER oil leaks. stay tuned -- SO???? Dis any of the work require any special tools? puller or press dry ice, Heat?? Or is it a simple R&R? FF | ||
| Bob Baldwin (Bob4106)
Registered Member Username: Bob4106 Post Number: 191 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 24.74.180.20 Rating: N/A |
Fast Fred You will need a wheel puller to get the hub off. The hub that the fan bolts to. Other then that a simple R&R. I don't know why. But I have changed mine 3 times and still wants to leak some. Not a lot, but just enough to make a small mess after 1000 mile or so. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1642 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.182.48.162  Rating: N/A |
Bob - Wonder if the fan is slightly out of balance, causing just enough of a wiggle in the shaft to cause the seal to leak?? Just thinking at the keyboard. . . | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1744 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
Make sure the bearing preload is within specs or looseness will cause continued leakage; also check surface that seal lip rides on for a groove or roughness. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 995 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.82.9.59 Rating: N/A |
Should have bought the GUNK by the case instead of by the can. Am busily removing 40 years of muck from the side and back of the engine.Haven't yet found the leak(s),will get her as clean as I can and go for a ride. Happily were so far in the boonies the noise wont be a bother. Amazing , removing the muffler was only a few min as the clamps were not heat seized. FF | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1747 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157 Rating: N/A |
You remove all the gunk and that engine is going to be noiser! | ||
| Jerry Coombs (Jerry_c)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_c Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 75.132.177.5 Rating: N/A |
How does one check bearing preload -- the bearing on the fan shaft? As to any special tools - needed a pully puller to remove the pully on the old AC drive but then decided to remove the entire gear and put on block off plate -- one are NO more leaks...YET. A seal kit usually comes with a behind fan seal and new rub ring? My kit had two rings obviously different sizes but the one that fit had a rougher surface than the one that didn't. Tried putting the fan shaft in the freezer then heat the ring up to get the old one off but ended up just using a chisel... carefuly. Put the new one on with some gasket shelac - kind of a lubricant to get the ring on then seals behind the ring when it dries. UNFORTUNATELY I still see some leakage behind the fan - maybe the seal hasn't broken in yet? well time will tell. The floresent dye showed many other leaks - one area gonna be difficult to fix but that is another story and post. btw -- when I had the engine rebuilt they put put on a different torus and related parts -- noticed the "turbine" in the different one was cast aluminum or something the old was just sheet metal - -the old was bent 'cause a nut came loose -- just cleaned it out and straightened the sheet metal turbine -- I'd guess the, what looks like, cast AL is stronger. Was interesting, for me, to see the insides of it now understand better how it works | ||
| Bob Baldwin (Bob4106)
Registered Member Username: Bob4106 Post Number: 192 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 24.74.180.20 Rating: N/A |
Thanks RJ Long I'll take a better look at that next time I start it up. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1003 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.24 Rating: N/A |
I tried the system proposed by Luke , clean everything , and go for a ride. With the muffler removed , the coach sounded way faster , but I'm not sure 5? more HP makes a 25,000lb coach into a dragster. I managed to clean some , but with only 4 spray cans of Gunk was able to get most of the gasketed seams , but not much more. After the ride , I found one BIG ONE! The return line from the oil system that feeds the cooling fan system was installed to drain back to the block with a bronze 90deg fitting NPT to flair hose. The bronze had rattled enough that it was a loose fit, although it still was in the hole. A new SS replacement will find out if this was the cause of 200mpg (of lube oil). Crawling under showed other brass fittings that are weeping , so will get the SS treatment. 1 down , a dozen? to go? Short Rotella T stock , this customer is cutting back. FF (Message edited by FAST FRED on November 18, 2009) |