| Author | Message | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 381 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 209.156.24.114  Rating: N/A |
Well I managed to install the block off plates on one side of my 4104. I started on it Sunday morning about 10:30 and by 4:00 I was putting away the last of my tools. I spent about an hour just getting the bus up, blocked and the body/air beam raised off the axle. (the air bags on that side would not inflate completely due to the leak) I used my motorcycle lift to lift/remove/replace the tires. Here are a few photos of the "operation" http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp194/Zimtok/Buses%20Cars%20and%20Bikes/Airbag-axelbloc ked.jpg http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp194/Zimtok/Buses%20Cars%20and%20Bikes/Oldboltsout.jpg http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp194/Zimtok/Buses%20Cars%20and%20Bikes/Seperatingairba gfromairbeam-000.jpg http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp194/Zimtok/Buses%20Cars%20and%20Bikes/Oldboltsinairba g.jpg http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp194/Zimtok/Buses%20Cars%20and%20Bikes/installingnewbo lts-002.jpg http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp194/Zimtok/Buses%20Cars%20and%20Bikes/installingblock offplate-004.jpg http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp194/Zimtok/Buses%20Cars%20and%20Bikes/Boltingupthebag andplatetoairbeam-00.jpg http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp194/Zimtok/Buses%20Cars%20and%20Bikes/Boltingupthebag andplatetoairbeam-1.jpg http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp194/Zimtok/Buses%20Cars%20and%20Bikes/blockoffplatein stalled-000.jpg . | ||
| Patrick levenson (Zubzub)
Registered Member Username: Zubzub Post Number: 114 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 174.91.230.30  Rating: N/A |
Nice work, pretty fast and reminds me I need to fix my air ratchet. Mind telling me the cost of the bits? I have block off on one side of the rear but see more in the future, BTW the pic with your hands reminded me why I like these http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97405 so much. This was a link I found quickly I think the ones I use are better, but basically I can work a full day on the bus without taking them off, this included fiddly bits, I use tham at work as well, cloth backing allows the hand to breath and nitrile is more oil resistant. These are better. But I can buy them for $2.50 CAN around here. http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-Nitrile-Dipped-Gloves-X-Large/dp/B000HBM3KW (Message edited by zubzub on October 26, 2009) (Message edited by zubzub on October 26, 2009) | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 368 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 75.178.92.43  Rating: N/A |
Great shots, Austin - You make it look so easy. Question; Are your new bolts completely seated? I had a couple that looked like that; they would just NOT pull completely flush - the oval head kept turning out of the recess in the ring. Holds air fine, but have wondered about them chafing the air bag? Nellie Wilso | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 382 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 209.156.24.114 Rating: N/A |
Zub, Got all the bits from Luke at US Coach. 4 block off plates, enough bolts, nuts, lock washers for the 4 plates, air line and fittings. The total with shipping was $372.68 I've tried working in gloves, even the ones with no fingers and just can't get used to them. I can't get my hands into tight spaces with gloves on. Nellie, Mechanical things just seem to come easy to me, been that way all my life. I used to take things apart just to see how they worked as long as I can remember. Some bolts just would not stay turned into the ring so I just let them be as they wanted to be. As with you I hope there will not be any problems. . | ||
| Bill Gerrie (Bill_gerrie)
Registered Member Username: Bill_gerrie Post Number: 297 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 216.198.139.38 Rating: N/A |
Austin Isn't Luke a great guy to deal with. We are so fortunate to have such a knowledgable guy to help us busnuts. I ordered 4 complete air bag assemblies for a friends 4107 and didn't even have to give Luke the part numbers. Everything was shipped out that day. Bill | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1025 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 209.142.172.191  Rating: N/A |
Nellie, I had the same problem so I took them off and hit each bolt with a hammer in a ring seat until they all seated well. Otherwise it was impossible to get some of them to stay put. The old type bolt heads were much better, pretty impossible to slip out of place. | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 235 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 208.81.157.234  Rating: N/A |
Great pix. Nice job. Don 4107 | ||
| Glenn Williams (Glenn)
Registered Member Username: Glenn Post Number: 236 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 216.163.57.91  Rating: N/A |
I am so glad that you posted the pictures. They're great! However, I'd really think about adjusting those bolts. Over time they are likely to wear holes in your bags. I had a bag fail because the PO had not swung an air fitting out of the way on a brake can. It would be a shame to have done all of that work for nothing. When I did the bags on my MCI 7, I'd just use a vice grip to hold the bolt down into the ring while tightening the nuts. Good Luck! Glenn | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1720 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
vise grips or channel locks work fine. Make sure that nuts will run down threads by hand before starting. A small amount of never seize around the underside of the heads will help them seat better. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1721 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157 Rating: N/A |
maybe a little antiseize on the bolt threads also. A little liquid soap applied to the bag bead will help in the seating.Lightly snug up all in a cris-cross pattern before final tightening. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1026 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 209.142.172.236 Rating: N/A |
Those bolt heads may not cause a problem but I didn't have the nerve to leave mine up like that after all that work!! | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 373 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 75.178.92.43 Rating: N/A |
Hey Guys - So maybe I should go back under there and try to reseat my bolts too? There were only two that didn't completely seat, but there's no bolt showing - just the edge of the bolt head a pinch above the ring. (Can't take photos 'cause the wheels are back on... but I'll prowl through my computer and see if I took some) BTW, I tried vise grips and couldn't get enough bite to hold it. Tricks to share, anyone? Gus: You said, "The old type bolt heads were much better" and isn't THAT the truth. Why must everything that works just fine be changed? Whatever happened to "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." ??? Especially when it's so seldom an improvement. Nellie | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 179 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.211.225.61 Rating: N/A |
Not to scare anybody, but i had one bag that started leaking. Could not see it with the wheel on, but could feel air coming out of the back side. Thought maybe a rock had gotten caught in the side of the bag when it was low on air and poked a hole in it. Turned out that one bolt was turned 180 degrees and started leaking. Have no idea how long before i bought the bus that the bags were replaced but i had it for 2 or 3 years beore it started leaking. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1027 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 209.142.172.203 Rating: N/A |
Ed, You don't really say what caused the leak, did the bolt head cut into the bag or did it leak around the ring because the bolt was loose?? | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1634 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.182.48.162  Rating: N/A |
Austin - Is there a torque setting for the new bolts? What size are the nuts? 1/2? 9/16? Just curious. . .  | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 180 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.208.75.110 Rating: N/A |
Gus, that was the really strange thing about it. The bolt was tight, the ring was tight and yet i was loosing air like there was a hole there. The bag was starting to crack so i replaced it but it was not leaking from the crack. From what i could figure out the air was leaking from the head of the bolt itself. I actually had a bit of a hard time breaking the bag loose from the beam, it was that tight of a seal, and yet you could hear the air escaping .???? | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 181 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.208.75.110 Rating: N/A |
As an added side note, while i was changing this bag i noticed that on the back side of the other bag something did not look right. Looked closer and saw that somebody had run out of the correct bolts and had just used either carriage or stove bolts and the head protruded enough that when the bag were down some, they were starting to cause the bags to crack. Checked the other bags and found the same thing happening so i replaced all of the bags and bolts. Did all of this while recovering from a dislocated shoulder. Had to be very careful and think twice on how i lifted things and moved and twisted my body. :>) | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1028 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 209.142.172.236 Rating: N/A |
Those original Firestone bags on my 4104 were really tough. I only changed mine because I noticed that the plies on one bag were separating. They are wrapped in a spiral pattern and one ply was completely loose for at least four inches. However, it wasn't leaking any air and I drove it that way for about 900 miles or so until we got home. | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 383 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 209.156.24.114 Rating: N/A |
RJ, The nuts are 1/2" The thread sizes is 5/16 NC. I'm sure there is a torque spec, there is for everything on a vehicle when manufactured. I just tightened them down as equal as I could all the way around. Guys, (and Gals) I did notice that the rear airbag was the older style with the metal ring in the middle. It seemed to be in good condition so I just reinstalled it. By the way, I have driven it to several gigs this week and don't really notice any difference in the ride. (other then it needing a little adjustment on the leveling valve) But with only one side done I didn't expect to notice anything. . | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1029 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 209.142.172.205 Rating: N/A |
Austin, Since I'm a pretty old guy I would never have done that job without installing new bags because of all the hard work involved. New bags will mean I never have to do that job again! However, you younger guys can afford to do that!! A couple of other nuts have installed the plates on one side only and have reported the same as you, not much difference, if any. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 957 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.210.139.125 Rating: N/A |
Me too...BTDT. RCB | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 958 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.210.139.125 Rating: N/A |
Me too...BTDT. And bags are not that much $$... for all the work involved, it is worth it, even if one must do it one or two at a time. As FF says. "do it your way"...yep. RCB | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 375 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 75.178.92.43 Rating: N/A |
R.C. - What does BTDT mean? Nellie | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 143 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 69.232.79.23  Rating: N/A |
Sorry for the dum question, but what are the block off plates for? | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 443 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 74.244.14.221  Rating: N/A |
BTDT Been There Done THat | ||
| Rob Norgren (Robsedona)
Registered Member Username: Robsedona Post Number: 166 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.208.25.87  Rating: N/A |
Block off plates are to easily fix the air beam on the air ride. Welding in that space between the wheels is hard to do without the coach in the air Been their done that 3 years ago now I have a new small leak in the same beam going to plate it this time EASY! | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 384 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 209.156.24.114 Rating: N/A |
Gus,R.C. If I had the airbags prior to doing the job I would have replaced the older one. I was pressed for time and had to get the bus in working condition within a day, two at most. Because I use this bus 3-5 times a week for the gigs I need to do repairs fast. My only other alternative is to empty out my 16ft trailer and haul the gear in it if the bus is down for an extended time. (i've done this before) Before I take on the job of the other side I will inspect the airbags and have them on hand if I feel they need to be replaced. . | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1033 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 209.142.172.238 Rating: N/A |
Zim, Not trying to tell you how to do your stuff, just telling how I do it! Those old bags are tough, I never had one leak yet even when one was coming apart. I carry a full set of new rear bags/bolts because I know they probably will need replacing in the near future. I went ahead and got the rear set since all the front bags are new. I also carry a full set of both front/rear used plates that were given to me. If I have a serious beam leak on the road at least I know I won't have to wait for the parts! One set for each side is probably plenty for emergencies. They don't take much baggage space,and they are excellent insurance. | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 137 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
Just curious how much it stiffens the ride with the new plates installed. I would think that the bounce and rebound would be quicker. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| Austin Scott Davis (Zimtok)
Registered Member Username: Zimtok Post Number: 385 Registered: 9-2006 Posted From: 209.156.24.114 Rating: N/A |
No problem Gus, I appreciate any and all information on these kinds of things. There is no replacement for experience and I respect all of those that have done what I have not yet done myself. Everyone has their own way of doing things whether by choice or circumstance. Like you I was only explaining what I did in the situation I was faced with. Tom, With only one side in the rear being done I have not noticed any difference in the ride. I would guess that if ALL the bags were blocked off in one shot you might notice a difference, but again this is just speculation on my part. |