| Author | Message | ||
| hojji firemaker (Hojjifiremaker)
Registered Member Username: Hojjifiremaker Post Number: 70 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 67.142.168.24  Rating: N/A |
My wallet hurts already... I sent in a oil sample as many of you suggested, and just got the results... (THIS IS FROM THE ORIGINAL OIL IN THE BUS WHEN I GOT IT, NOT DUE TO MY NEGLECT....) I hardly understand the gravity of what these results could mean.... here they are word for word: "5% of this sample was diesel fuel, which likely lowered the oil's viscosity to the SAE 30W range. This much fuel indicates a faulty injector and/or seal. Monitor the oil level on the dipstick. If it starts reading overfull then your Detroit has a problem. The universal averages show typical wear for the 8V92 after 11,000 miles of oil use. We're guessing this oil was in use longer due to a long oil run. Monitor coolant and oil levels and check back in ~10K~ miles to monitor." Obviously if there is any antifreeze in the oil at all it means there is a head gasket problem. 'TRACE' amounts doesn't sound bad... yet... but may be a 'crack in the dam'.... as far as the injector issue, that may be the reason why my motor smokes??? ( I don't comprehend it) if you have any ideas, even the obvious, please post your thoughts.... A little humility online is a lot better that a lot broken down on the side of the road.... Thank you all! | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 114 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 69.106.223.122  Rating: N/A |
Doesn't sound so bad to me. If you don't have any history with the engine, do an oil change and take it from there. A little monitoring/keeping an eye on things could be just what the Dr. ordered. | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 141 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
Personally- I would pull both heads-have them checked for cracks and then install new Injector cups. Spending a bit now is a lot better then spending alot later. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| hojji firemaker (Hojjifiremaker)
Registered Member Username: Hojjifiremaker Post Number: 71 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 67.142.168.22 Rating: N/A |
Tom, I will look into that... There are some detroit diesel mechanics not too far from here... I would like to have an idea of what to direct them to do rather than have no idea at all, and have them talk me into excessive repairs that are unnecessary because of my lack of mechanical knowledge. | ||
| Ken Barnett (Dieselbusparts)
Registered Member Username: Dieselbusparts Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2009 Posted From: 76.26.111.30 Rating: N/A |
I would post the problem on: http://www.dieselenginetrader.com/diesel_talk/categories.cfm?catid=9 specifically a guy that goes by 'GoneFishen' he is a very knowledgeable two stroke mechanic that gives very good and accurate diagnosis online for FREE! Give him a try or at least check the posts, you may find the answer. My guess is your antifreeze is the smoker on the bus, the injector tubes are notorious for leaking. The fastest way to figure out whether or not it's the antifreeze is get out a clean cloth start the engine and while it's takin a smoke break put the cloth over the exhaust for a couple of seconds, if it smells like antifreeze: that's the problem if it smells like oil: rings, piston wrist pins or piston's are the problem, IMHO post your problem to Gonefishen you'll get the advice of a Detroit Diesel mechanic with real experience and not just a best guess from us bus owners. | ||
| Ken Barnett (Dieselbusparts)
Registered Member Username: Dieselbusparts Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2009 Posted From: 76.26.111.30 Rating: N/A |
I just re-read your post, and to explain; white smoke is caused from water/anti-freeze getting hot enough to cause steam and that mixed with normal exhaust = white fluffy clouds of smoke. There are quite a few different culprits on a DDV92 that could be leaking and the head gasket is NOT the first thing to suspect and if it is they sell for under $50.00. The slightest bit of anti-freeze in the oil is a HUGE deal in a two stroke engine and will cause bigger and more expensive problems very quickly, don't drive it very far until you find that leak, and if you must drive it change the oil (sae 30 or sae 40) either are good choices just avoid the multi weights. | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 476 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 70.60.107.113  Rating: N/A |
Hojji, does your Oil Analysis report specifically say that there is antifreeze/coolant in the oil? Your first post kinda implies that but isn't clear. Thanks. | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 447 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62  Rating: N/A |
I'm with youi bruce if that is word for word on his report all it says is there is fuel in the oil. There should be more to the report though thingts like bearing material indicating wear amount etc | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1036 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 209.142.172.159  Rating: N/A |
My understanding is that white smoke in a diesel is unburned fuel. My 671 always gives out clouds of white smoke if I try to start it without ether when it is too cold. White smoke in a gasser is water. | ||
| niles steckbauer (Niles500)
Registered Member Username: Niles500 Post Number: 946 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 173.78.39.41 Rating: N/A |
White "smoke" is most likely unburned fuel in a cold engine and water vapor in hot engine - FWIW | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 448 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62 Rating: N/A |
I should also mention prio to having the rack run on my 6-71 it would make white smoke depending on load. Bottom line one injector was calling for more fuel than it should have causing much to be unburned. Ran the rack and it doesn't even smoke on start up now | ||
| Ken Barnett (Dieselbusparts)
Registered Member Username: Dieselbusparts Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2009 Posted From: 76.26.111.30 Rating: N/A |
White smoke = water Blue smoke = oil Black smoke = diesel (too rich) White with blueish color = oil White at startup = normal (caused by condensation, it will go away after the engine warms up) Water in the fuel can also cause white smoke. These are facts no matter what type of engine you have, gas or diesel they are both combustion engines and have similar operations and to simplify this if you light oil on fire you get blue/grey smoke, if you light diesel on fire you get black sooty smoke and if you heat water with exhaust type impurities and antifreeze you will get white smoke! When an injector tube leaks it adds coolant into the fuel stream at the time of combustion, it then ignites in the super heated cylinder, the coolant is vaporized along with the fuel and exhausted out, it is then sent back through the turbo charger where the unspent fuel is sent into the blower to be re-ignited as super heated air. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 789 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.54.207 Rating: N/A |
Hojji, if it smells likes fuel it is fuel plain and simple. And if you have fuel in your oil the 2 strokes will smoke like a smoke stack good luck (Message edited by luvrbus on November 10, 2009) | ||
| hojji firemaker (Hojjifiremaker)
Registered Member Username: Hojjifiremaker Post Number: 72 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 67.142.168.25 Rating: N/A |
Thanks everybody. I think the next step forward for me is to find out how the fuel is getting in my oil.... The head gasket is a major problem, but with only a trace amount found in the oil currently, and 5% of the oil being Diesel, that seems the priority right now.... | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 386 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.77.211.93  Rating: N/A |
fuel lines run under the valve covers in my 6-71 how about yours? notorius for leaks | ||
| hojji firemaker (Hojjifiremaker)
Registered Member Username: Hojjifiremaker Post Number: 73 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 67.142.168.25 Rating: N/A |
not sure... I will have to find out where that is and see what I find... | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1738 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.69.141.191  Rating: N/A |
pull the valve covers, then run it and shut down and watch the clean rivers flowing in the oil, the leaking jumpers or injectors will expose themselves quickly. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 790 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.54.207 Rating: N/A |
hojji,I doubt you have a so called head gasket leak as the 2 strokes just have o-rings and compression seal. The small amount of antifreeze you are getting is probaby coming from the o-ring seals on the liners they seep a little sometimes when the weather gets colder, have you notice any antireeze coming out the air box drain tubes. A easy test for leaking jumper tubes is the ping system remove your valve covers tap each line with a wrench if they ping good if no ping sound not good it is leaking good luck | ||
| hojji firemaker (Hojjifiremaker)
Registered Member Username: Hojjifiremaker Post Number: 74 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 67.142.168.23 Rating: N/A |
I am by no means a trained mechanic, so this is all a bit intimidating for me, but I will get in there (at some point soonish) and see what I find... That would be great if it was a simple fuel line leak.... Doesn't replacing the rings basically constitute a rebuild? I have heard mechanics speaking about rebuilding motors, and heard them say that when they do, the rings are one of the things that are regularly replaced.... With tools and a manual, is this something I can do, or do I need a trained diesel mechanic? I am capable of following directions and turning wrenches... | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 451 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62 Rating: N/A |
Hojji, The rings he is spoeaking of are not the rings on the pistons they are the seal between the head and the cylinder if I read correctly. | ||
| David Guglielmetti (Daveg)
Registered Member Username: Daveg Post Number: 115 Registered: 2-2009 Posted From: 69.106.223.122 Rating: N/A |
Hojji-find a good 2-stroke mechanic and make him your friend |