| Author | Message | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 290 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232  Rating: |
...seeking factual first hand recommendations for a off the shelf BATTERY DESULPHATORS that can be purchased by check or money order (known & trusted sources as I do not do the credit card thingy anymore & do not wish to get burnt by the many online stores I have no experience with) shipping from within canada preferred. -my system will be 24 volt, but not sure if it will be with 6 volt or 12 volt batteries, could go either way, so guidance is welcome on this major detail too. - - I understand (based on non-descriptive online adds) that it is possible to use the new desulphators while you use the system, either in float, coast, drain or charge modes as a "battery maintenance system. - - - as always purchase price & service cost (life span) are major purchase parameters, as well as the ability to add more batteries to the system on future upgrade replacements. - - - - I am guessing that my best bet for flexibility/affordability is a system based on 12 volt flooded batteries with each battery getting it's own "redundant" desulfator. I do not have the kind of funds I would like to spend for AGMs & most likely the application will be infrequent use for several years; the immediate need is mostly Emergency Preparedness Planning to self-justify this premature expenditure , as fulltiming is years down the road, "hopefully" . ----- the charge system will eventually be, from my UPS for top up/maintenance, 24vdc military surplus gas generator (parked) or the coach DN 50 (while mobile), bulk chargine with a fork lift plug in charger (on grid); with future upgrade intentions of a modern delusx rv invertor with charge/draw monitors/managers and add-as-afford photo voltaic cells for top up maintenance greening. + thanks for your knowledgeable feedback & added questions of incite to help intise those in the know to recall. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 907 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.216.70.102  Rating: N/A |
I have used them for over a decade , and they seem to work fine. However I am very careful about discharging batts and doubt if I have ever got to down 50% Soc . With a solar panel to make up for the juice they eat ,I figure there good insurance. Have never attemped to bring a really sulphated batt back, but I have been in many boat yards where de-sulphation was attempted on problem batts , seemingly with some success. FF | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 291 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232 Rating: N/A |
~Thanks kindly , can you your recommend a brand & reliable supplier F.F. I have come to trust your judjment on most matters of the bus. ~I have been wanting to "believe" this distributor at http://www.batterytechsolutions.com/product/12V-Battery-Desulfator#Installation was real & might meet meet my needs at only $30 a piece, but then it is sending money to Malaysia. The web site has been around for some time, which could me they are good or just good scammers that pay there advertising bills. From the description it should meet my wants, except that off shore shipping thing, and the customs red tape, seems what ever I ship , especially over our common border gets damaged during the long drawn out "cavity searches" that seem to transpire in the security make work projects on both sides. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1585 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.110.9  Rating: N/A |
I've been looking at these for about 2 years now. That's a good price. I think I'm going to get mine from this company. http://www.pulsetech.net/ They are costly and cheaper ones, like the one you listed are available, but I think the ones that this company sell will perform as advertised, not that yours or others won't. Probably the same for other brands. There doesn't seem to be that much experience from users like us to draw on yet. | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 293 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232 Rating: N/A |
...but we-all are working on that & perhaps attracting those that have related experience right J&W. .. Takes many more disciplines to operate a ship as grand as the cyclopes, more than even a amphibious H5-60 would require; I can only imagine. Thanks for the direction. . Did anyone ever tell yous two that "you make a lovely couple of bus nuts, looking through that nifty bus windscreen" ~ tis a good to spread a disease such as this bus nut thing, with many far reaching spin-off benefits as practical good examples for the future buslings. Not that we need to justify our habits, not even to our own good clean consciouses , as this is nature's trade off with any sickness. My kind of mask, indeed ! | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1303 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.69.14 Rating: N/A |
We've been using desulfators for years. They work very well on batteries that are sulfated but not otherwise damaged. The way I use them is to hook one up to a battery along with a 1 amp charger. I connect a DMM to the battery and take a reading every day. As the battery voltage rises, the battery becomes desulfated. When the voltage stops rising, the desulfator is done. For a car battery, about a week. For a pair of golf carts, 2 to 3 weeks. Our L16s take 2 to 4 weeks if they need treatment. If a battery is not sulfated, the voltage might peak in a day, depending on it's state of charge. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Edward J. Sommers (Sommersed)
Registered Member Username: Sommersed Post Number: 47 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 148.63.161.138 Rating: N/A |
I use the unit from http://www.backwoodssolar.com/ it's called "BATTERY LIFE SAVER DE-SULFATOR", and is in the batteries and chargers section. It's about $85.00 but I use it full time on my 24 volt system which utilizes 8 golf cart type batts. It's also a good practice to cross tie, IMHO. Ed | ||
| John Lacey (Junkman42)
Registered Member Username: Junkman42 Post Number: 95 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 66.82.162.15  Rating: N/A |
Has anyone looked at the output of one of these desulphator's to see what the maximum voltage this unit produces. Is it intended to disconnect all of the electrical loads before using these devices? And is there a reccomended application period or is it used all the time? John | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 296 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232 Rating: N/A |
the website claim on this Malaysian brand http://www.batterytechsolutions.com/product/12V-Battery-Desulfator-Sale-5 is that it can be used without interference to electronics and has certification . The web site is a little scattered, maybe written my a malaysian in there tradition, but it does have a far amount of claims & vague specks (forgive them toddMcsix, & I shall try to too). I am almost at the point were I am frustrated enough to spend $150 bucks for five, and learn first hand just what is real, if any and what is not. If it looks to good to be true, it probably isn't true. I just hate to encourge scams by falling for them, be it $1 or a million. So I guess at this point my question is refined to , has anyone purchased from BATTERY TECH SOLUTIONS company, either the desulphator model link above or any of there other modestly priced products? | ||
| John Lacey (Junkman42)
Registered Member Username: Junkman42 Post Number: 96 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 66.82.162.15 Rating: N/A |
Clint, if I understand their ad one unit is 150 something and if You get 4 You get one free! Or do You get five for the 150 something? Is the ad misleading or worded poorly? I am interested but not for 150 each, how did You take the ad? Regards, John | ||
| Jerry Liebler (Jerry_liebler)
Registered Member Username: Jerry_liebler Post Number: 349 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 75.90.181.70 Rating: N/A |
Clint, I'm very skeptical of the cheap units you found. I built several based on http://leadacidbatterydesulfation.yuku.com/ And bought one commercial unit. I ended up sending back the commercial unit as it simply didn't work. The units I built did, eventually, restore the 4 L16 batterys that had been left uncharged for about a year (it took 4 months of charging and pulsing). The home built units make lots of radio noise which would make commercial sale illegal but the fast big pulses are key to the desulphation process. I'd advise you to search the site I've given, get a kit and build it, otherwise, I believe, you'll be disappointed. Also I'd use the pulsers with only a charger connected to the battery, ie. no other loads as the pulses may dammage some electronics. Regards Jerry 4107 1120 | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 878 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.211.96.210 Rating: N/A |
Can' remember where I got my two desulphators several years ago (the coach is being painted and I do not have access to them at this writing )...but I remember specifically the guy telling me (over the phone because I questioned what had been written) to "leave them hooked up...all the time". I have two battery sets...house and start...one desulphator for each set (5 house-3 start) So far so good; I have a 10 amp solar panel for each set. Maintains very steady 12.4 to 12.on a wired digital display. About $35 each as I recall. RXB | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 299 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232 Rating: N/A |
>putting on my malaysian made sneakers, and re- reading the ad a few more times, with a mirror while standing on my head... the advertised price is 5 for $ 150 (on sale for a limited time, just like the last time I tried to read there site last fall, hum smells like dodo already) or one for $ 40. ~ The claimed ( see bottom of http://www.batterytechsolutions.com/product/12V-Battery-Desulfator-Sale-5 ) EMF certification on this "desulpate as you use" model is certified SIRIM at VDE 0871 , if anyone can translate that to how it will effect sensitive electronics, including when you have a 4 desulphators (1 unit per 2 x 6 volt Torjans T-105 My intention now to go with 8 Trogan T-105 (possibly the plus if they are flooded and not gell ???) ~~ so this is intended for maintenance on eight new Torjans T-105 , or four L-16 (see http://www.trojanbattery.com/Products/documents/RE_ProductSheet_000.pdf ) in a series parallel arrangement, to my 24 vdc UPS, or charged by my surplus APU , or coach 50DN , or two 12 vdc fork lift chargers while on shore power , (in the future -maintained with a growing bank of PVC panels & monitor station and upgrade to a modern inverter like the Xantrex or Outback or something) > I am thinking it may be worth the extra warranty to go with trojans RE series, but am confused , is a gel paste or flooded, I wish to stick with flooded, with the ability to add distilled water as my system is many dollars away form automation with monitors/temperature charge, precision charge rate control, flooded cells are more forgiving , understand ! Well hope I stated this clear enough for helpers to understand, if nothing else the Battery Tech Solution site is interestingly confusing. Never can get a email response ( info@batterytechsolutions.com ), don't speak malay, so little point in calling there posted malaysian phone number +6016 247 5201 (as copied) for questions I am not qualifed to ask ! {DID one of the dogs just fart or is it their site ?} -where is that Macgiverflyer60 when his electronics specialty is most need ? Hopefully out being walk by his dog or working on the conversion restoration, if only on the money acquisition stage (working for big bucks) | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1304 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 65.74.69.14 Rating: N/A |
We bought one that looks exactly as the one in your link, except for the label. Ours was marked "SulfaRid". It was about $25 plus $6 to ship it from Malaysia. I'm not shy about using it and we have had very good results. In order to predict a recoverable battery, all the cells should be nearly equal. If you find a battery at 10.5 or 8.4 volts, you can pretty well figure you have a leaky(shorted) cell. I don't bother with them at all. Good luck. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 313 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232 Rating: N/A |
~ seem to be making a little headway with battery tech solutions, did get a email confirmation and the site has been updated, here is the link http://www.batterytechsolutions.com/product/12V-Battery-Desulfator , it has clarification on prices and a little more description of those emf standard claims if anyone can interpret . So they are selling for under $40 if you buy 5 at once. Will keep this post updated, hopefully with my own first electronic results hand experience on the new snap on scope/verus scan tool, for more qualified scrutiny than I can easily provide . 1 $38.00 $36.10 2 $38.00 $34.20 10% off 5 $38.00 $32.30 15% off 10 $38.00 $30.40 20% off 25 $38.00 $28.50 25% off Specifications Input Voltage Range 11.5 V - 17 V Output Current Range 1.6 A (pk) Cut-In Voltage (Vd) 12.5 V Operation Indication Green LED Low Voltage Indication Red LED PCB Specification CEM 1, UL 94V-0 Dimensions 25mm (H) x 78mm (D) x 60mm (W) Unit Weight 180g (0.397lbs) Flame Retardant Encapsulation Yes Polarity Protection Yes Short Circuit Protection 3 A, Auto Reset Connection Leads UL 1015 Terminations Ring or Fork Lugs Safety Standard IEC 380 EMC Standard VDE 0871 Alunimium Casing 6063-T5 (Anodized BS1615) Compliance CE Standards IEC 61000-4-6 and 95/54 EEC Annex VII """Thanks bus nuts, keep on bus conversion researching & shopping """ | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 911 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 76.192.0.94 Rating: N/A |
Back in the Day , Home Power Magazine , on line free , had a "This Works" rating , but the Liars for Hire ,representing trash products scared them into dropping the rating. However they do have loads of advertisements for these units. With new entrants jumping on the bandwagon,alnost daily, I would only purchase from one of the bigger well known electronics mfg.names. FF | ||
| Tim (Timkar)
Registered Member Username: Timkar Post Number: 129 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 216.232.158.51 Rating: N/A |
Clint, I got some pulse tech units from a fellow in Gibsons BC a few years ago. Used them on UPS battery banks at work and they seemed to do the trick. Very nice fellow and lots of info. http://www.quarrymarine.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Links.showLinksPage Tim | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 326 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232 Rating: N/A |
-thank you kindly for the leads on where to buy and the personal history briefs fellow bus nuts. ?? any indications from the full time desulfators, as far as imediate emf "noise effects" or longer term damage to your other system components after the inverter, as in the end users such as computers failing prematurely , electronic controllers (on your appliances) and system monitors on your power management system. ~~Please indicate your make/ model/arrangement of desulfator/s along with your inverter, which is the first "filter" or "victim" for potential damage induced by the PWM of the desulfator effect. ? has anyone considered installing filters to address this "pulse width modulation" concern ? | ||
| Clint Hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 335 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232 Rating: N/A |
to those that wish to begin to learn the basic of the noise & cascading IC failures I am concerned about this link might send you in the right direction ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_compatibility .I did get clarification on this model http://www.infinitumstore.com/ ..price with shipping DHL shipping for 5 is $200 USd , and I would expect to get taxed at customs when it comes through. ...Will let you know how it fares for electrical properties after I get it on the scope. The desulfation test will follow many moons later. All north america brands start at $100 each, I could not find any EMF certification and often strong disclaimers of "may cause electronic noise &/or damage" <Wise to filter what leaves the batterys, but at what costs ??? ... Thanks for sharing busnuts... | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 375 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232 Rating: N/A |
now to repay the tread title a little "homage" - I did paypal for those desulfators this evening from http://www.batterytechsolutions.com/product/12V-Battery-Desulfator-Sale-4b + the deal I went for was 5 for $206 USd including DHL shipping. so about $41 per unit. Which was the buy 4 / get one free deal. > the gentleman that manufactures these units was very helpful, sent me information , and was very responsive to our suggestions & concerns regarding "clarification on his web large site" , >I did make some head way in understanding the Asian/ European standards certifications he has obtain on the units for emf/electronic noise . Will do my own crude testing once I the shipment arrives from Malaysia... and of course how well they perform over time in actual use on both deep cycle batteries and start batteries (of which I have many brands in various stages of abuse at the shop I currently wrench at for dog food & bus part capitol) =the price is certainly modest for all the features built into these guarented desulpators. + any incite or leeds into filtering the inherent emf/ec generated with PWM generators between the batteries, but before the invertors/loads on our various coach conversions is vitally needed & would be much appreciated , and included in my testing progress results that are going to be posted on future threads! ~ Any experience of failed electronics for those that use other brands & designs of "desulfate while you use" systems would be of help in advancing our research to make the picture bigger, proven. believed, suspected or speculated. All feedback is respected and welcome on this big question. | ||
| Paul Lawry (Dreamscape)
Registered Member Username: Dreamscape Post Number: 549 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 64.40.216.13  Rating: N/A |
I'm going to give the Battery MINDer Plus a try. I'll post results after some testing. Paul | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 377 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.232.232 Rating: N/A |
~that is the kind of complimention we need much more of dreamscapeirPAUL, look forward to the details shared as this is a long standig question that needs a lot more details on the board, with far FAR far reaching spin off implications with the applicable knowledge, over the near future, unfortunately ! ...keep on "coach" conversion investigating... | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 464 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.237.52 Rating: N/A |
test up-date after 5 days of initial testing indicates the infinitum desulfator (testing 5 units ) is as advertised and verified with a oscilloscope and field testing on various types of batteries in varying conditions. Check back in late september 09 for detailed test results. After duty, tax & shipping the price is about $50 USd. http://www.batterytechsolutions.com/product/12V-Battery-Desulfator. >Likely take me till early next year to complete testing/research and begin to deal with emf/emp dirtiness of pulse wave modulators and the potential danger to electronics; which I will post in a new thread when that bridge is understood & crossed to a adequate degree (short of getting some qualified help from the board,if we had such a participant) | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1681 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.69.143.203  Rating: N/A |
I am waiting with anticipation! Got some good candidates for recovery attempts, and of course a bunch to maintain. I want to spend some PM money! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| clint hunter (Truthhunter)
Registered Member Username: Truthhunter Post Number: 568 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 24.129.234.224 Rating: N/A |
UPDATE on the INFINITUM battery desulfator testing conducted since this summer 25 batterys of different types, capcities and condition were conditioned or maintained with the INFINITUM test desulfator; 20 start, old and some wornout as well as fresh but shelf aged, 4 fresh but shelf aged deep cycle and 1 marine dual purpose. - battery capatcity was rigourously tested by a MAC TOOLS digital battery tester model BT8300 ( which is not a good indicator for deep cycle battery testing appliactions but accurate with start batterys in at a state of maxium recharge) ~no measureable amount of capacity restoration in any of the test batterys was apparent; although there is visual evidence of desulfation which MAY have some benifit extended capacity "satus qou" for properly used or propley stored flooded lead acid batterys of all three types. {does this translate into anything achieve with conclusive results beyound cleaning the lead sulpates from the plate surface, EYE-DOUGH-KNOT-NOs] =I will seek a more conclusive test method and get back update in the future...( I did mention my findings to the manufacture in Myalasia , but it has yet to sugest alternative method of testing to prove the worth of just cleaning the plates or comment further ) Went to the trouble to buy 5 of them, at about $50 each delivered into my hands, so I might as well spend some more time testing, IF ONLY for entertainment for my 250 bucks , should all they become is more crap-teck that only serves make believe purposes. The quality of the modulated pulse wave generator is as advertised, so there is no doubt about that part of the product claim. >having giving less than "hoped for" results , I have yet to do the more involved product research concerning the cleaness and RF interference or possilbe filtering remedy to protect sensitive electronics. ~at this point in the verification I shall not be purchasing a pallet load of this brand of desulphator & trying to flog them to my bus nuts buds , perhaps after much more involved testing~ |
