| Author | Message | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 533 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165  Rating: N/A |
Ok, so.... She's home. She needs a *LOT* of work... And I mean the kind of work that's generally given to a classic automobile... A complete tear-down and frame-up restoration. This bus is *NOT* a short-term project. I'm expecting it to take at least 5 years... So, I've plenty of time. Yes, I know, I said I needed a coach that I could basically jump in and get to work with, but... This coach is *THE* coach I've wanted for so long... About 15 years now. I'm going to take my time and do this right... Everything will be documented and I fully intend on it being re-certified (if it can be done, of course) as a *NEW* coach upon completion. I know that professional coach conversion outfits do that... And it really would be pretty neat to do it for this coach... She deserves the reclassification because when I'm done, she will be *NEW*. Once I am employed again, pretty much every cent (minus some savings) will go into this coach restoration... Complete tear down and frame-up rebuild. I will (and do) have a LOT of questions... But... I'll start with an easy one, simply because it's something that will require some forethought and planning. The old Buick Straight 8 simply doesn't have the power necessary to move this old girl down the road at a reasonable speed. Pulling a slight grade she slowed to less than 50mph, and a moderate grade brought her to 35mph. Even worse, if there's much of *ANY* grade from a dead stop... She simply won't go. I had some serious problems with just getting into traffic with her, and the worst of the instances in the last two days was trying to pull out of a particular gas station off of I-20 west of Longview, TX... It was a moderate uphill grade from the gas station onto the roadway... I couldn't get out. I had to back up to the pumps, where it was flat... Watch for traffic and get a running start at the exit to get onto the roadway... Fortunately, I caught a break in the traffic... It wasn't too busy and I could see both ways pretty easily... If that had not been the case, I'm afraid I'd likely have had to have help in stopping traffic so that I could get back on the road... Not pretty, and certainly not convenient. She simply doesn't move from a dead stop if it's an uphill grade... Once she's moving, I can pull pretty much anything in 1st, but not from a dead stop. So.... That brings me to my obvious question... What options are there for repowering this coach? I do, of course, want diesel... I like Detroit... But Cummins was suggested instead by a mechanic in the town I purchased her in since parts are readily available from many places... What engine/transmission combinations will fit in this old girl? I originally thought that I wanted to switch her to an auto, but... For some reason, I just really like the stick. I like how it feels, I like the control it gives me... I can't explain it, but those of you who drive with a stick shift AND enjoy it will understand.  The biggest thing is.... I do NOT want to do anything that will require modifying the body of the coach to accommodate the engine/tranny choice. If mods are required "under the hood", I'm fine with that, as long as it doesn't involve changing anything externally, outside the engine compartment in the rear end. Keep in mind, this isn't something I'll be doing any time soon... I'm just trying to find out what would work, and what I can realistically expect from the combinations suggested/presented... I know these CAN be repowered, but just don't know where to start looking for real-world examples... Ideas? Suggestions? Recommendations?? -Mac PS: I said this in the other thread, but... I'll say it here too. I'll get the writeup of the adventure done as soon as I can. I have a lot to contend with before I can sit down and do the writeup.. I'll have it to ya'll soon(tm) | ||
| NH BIll (Nh_wanderer)
Registered Member Username: Nh_wanderer Post Number: 31 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 98.229.237.8  Rating: N/A |
Wow that's one ambitious undertaking! How about a 6 v92 tweaked to 400 hp + Here's how to do it. All you need is the dough! Sorry about the commercials. Somebody's got to pay the bills. 1961 Flxible Starliner - Part 1 http://tinyurl.com/yglxnqt 1961 Flxible Starliner - Part 2 http://tinyurl.com/yjsca68 Good Luck! NH Bill | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 994 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.82.9.59  Rating: N/A |
If you are more interested in minimum rather than maximum fuel consumption a more modern 4 stroke would be one cure. If you are interested I have a package removed from my Flx VL 100, which is a CAT 1160 (the 3208 daddy that is not a throwaway)with Allison 6 speed auto. 150,000 since new with shift tower and Da Book. $3000 in arcadia FL. In the larger VL it got 10 mpg and easily ran 78mph. FF | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 446 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62  Rating: N/A |
Mac, Glad you made it back home. I might recomend joining this yahoo group as there are many there who have already been down this road http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/flxowners/ | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 193 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 98.212.104.155 Rating: N/A |
That is a great looking front end. It will look sweet with a buch new chrome. I would get away from the 2-stroke. A trick to get started on a grade from a dead stop is to, when you can, turn the bus 90 degrees to the grade as you back up. You then can get going sideways with the hill then turing up into it and going on! I have heard of truckers ripping driveshafts out under similar situations, this is one trick they do. (Message edited by Joe Camper on November 10, 2009) | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 306 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208  Rating: N/A |
FWIW, I knew a guy who had driven the old Buick powered Flx, a Florida prison bus, and he just loved it. Never heard him complain about power. Personally, I would not consider a gasser for myself, but if you want to stay authentic, rebuilding and hot rodding the old Buick might be a consideration. I am pretty impressed with your accomplishment to date, good luck with the old girl. | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 289 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.183.21.246  Rating: N/A |
I too stand in awe at what you have done with limited resources. Congratulations on a succesful trip. For my money that Cat motor and auto trans package sounds like a great deal if it fits in. Good luck Mac. | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 185 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.208.48.63 Rating: N/A |
If you were going to stay with a gasser, how about something like a Viper V 10. 500 hp and might be an easy fit. | ||
| Josh McElhiney (Zcommanager)
Registered Member Username: Zcommanager Post Number: 91 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.187.41.177  Rating: N/A |
Congrats Mac on a safe trip home! I too have heard truckers and fellow coach owners suggest backing sideways on a hill to get a running start. Even if you can only go 45* instead of a full 90*, that would still cut the pull-out angle dramatically. Ed, I like your suggestion of the Viper V10. IIRC they are just under 500 Cu In's. Seems like it should be a comparable fit to the Buick S-8. Although, I can't imagine there would be any fuel effiecency on the road with it. Lol Good Luck Mac! Josh | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 659 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.155.14  Rating: N/A |
Glad you made it home safely Mac, We are PROUD of you for what you have been thru. Gomer PS THAT IS WHY WE AE CALLED BUS NUTS LOL | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 520 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193  Rating: N/A |
Congrats on the successful trip! I would not dismiss the straight 8 all together. I'm sure it is very tired at the moment, maybe it is having a 'senior moment' Seriously tho, price out what a rebuild would cost on the Buick 8 & weigh it against the cost of the diesel repower. Might be the best for you is a quick rebuild of the 8 & save the ultimate repower for after the rest of the bus is done. You'll be able to use the bus sooner AND you'll have the coolness of a STRAIGHT 8! What ever you do, keep the weight down. The brakes on it were not designed around high speed innerstate cruising. . . So, don't forget a power upgrade needs a brake system upgrade also. Enjoy the journey & don't be in such a big rush to the destination that you miss the scenery. | ||
| Peter E (Sdibaja)
Registered Member Username: Sdibaja Post Number: 321 Registered: 5-2002 Posted From: 201.143.51.205  Rating: N/A |
K E E P that old Buick Straight 8! | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 142 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
If you keep the bus weight under 33,000lbs (which should be easy), you could go with a Cummins ISB at 280hp and 660lb/ft torque (almost twice the torque of the Buick 8) with an Allison 2500 5 spd automatic. You'll have great acceleration and with the Allison's converter locking up in the upper part of second gear and staying locked up continuously through 5th, get good fuel mileage also. Except for adding the air to air intercooler, you'll probably be able to reuse the existing radiator. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1035 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 209.142.172.159  Rating: N/A |
I rode some of these Buick powered buses when I was a youngster on what were called "Stage Lines" in the west. They were very slow on hills/mountains but not bad on level roads. I would keep the Buick. I don't remember the stroke of the Buick but it is probably pretty long. I used to own a '40 Super and it was a runner, a bus is a different story. If you don't want that then go to the older GMC 270 truck engine or the newer Chevy 292, both are straight OHV sixes and probably shorter length than the Buick. Both are long stroke high torque which you need with the 4 sp. What they won't do is give you high speed, probably 50-60mph tops. If it were mine I would rob an International powered school bus or Dodge Cummins pickup with AT. The AT will solve the problem of starting on hills or soft ground. (Message edited by gusc on November 10, 2009) | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 308 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208 Rating: N/A |
Mac, I was among the first to say that you were absolutely nuts to take on such a challenge in your financial condition. Now, all I can say is that I admire your guts and wish you all the best. Wish you were closer, I'd be at your place helping out every chance I got. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 788 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.33.54.207 Rating: N/A |
Mac, if anyway you could attend the Flx rally at Quartzsite Az Jan 21-23 you could get a first hand look at what the Flx people use for repowers it is a wide selection of power upgrades. Speaking with most it is the cooling system that gave them the most problems during upgrades | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 534 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165 Rating: N/A |
Boy, I tell ya... The last two days of driving that old girl has definitely wiped me out. It's going to take a few days to recover from that one.... heh.. Bad back + Bad neck + 56 year old poorly padded bus seat = severe pain. x.x Good thing I have lots of ibuprofen, eh? lol Ok... I haven't had time to check out the Yahoo group yet (thanks, Tim!), but I will... Over on BCM, I was given the site http://www.flxibleowners.org/flxbk/swap.htm and it's proven an interesting read (at least, what I had the energy to read, that is... Still have to read it again!) So, it seems that my "new" old girl is as Flexible (pun intended) with power plants as I'd expected she would be... Which is good. It'll give me a lot to chew on over the coming months and I'll be able to take my time researching the possible combinations... Now... Time to answer some of your own posts. Bill... I'll look through those links once I have enough energy to see straight for more than a couple of minutes... Thank you for the links! FF.. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you know... I have no way to get that from you right now... It will be a while yet, but I'm not really sure of what engine/tranny combination I'll go with yet.. I decided to ask the power plant question first because it seems to be the most complex of the issues that will present themselves over the course of this project... I thank you for the offer, but right now... This is just a thought exercise to see what might not only be possible, but also what might likely fit my ideas for this old girl best in the long run. Debbie & Joe... Whether I stick with a 2 stroke or move to a 4 stroke is somewhat an open issue... Fuel economy is certainly a consideration, but overall power and the ability to pull the grades while keeping temperatures manageable is my primary concern... And yes... When she's "done" (never happens, does it?), she'll be bright and shiny with new chrome. Len, authenticity for the old girl ends at the skin... I want to keep her stock LOOKS. Everything else, I want to bring up to today's standards for toughness, ease of finding replacement parts and safety. Later on, I think I'll end up doing what was done on that Flx site and get a newer model skoolie donor bus to swap suspension, braking system, etc off of. It seems like a good idea, and it fits with what my original impressions of the underside of this old girl were... Sitting underneath working on her, I couldn't help but think how similar everything looked to the bookmobile I have... Aside from the air vs. hydraulic brake systems, everything looked pretty much the same between the two. John & Barb, thanks. On the Cat engine... Not sure I want to go that route... Cats are nice, but aren't parts harder to find and overly expensive compared to DD and Cummins? Josh... o.O I think I'll stay away from the V10. Lol... I have no intention of keeping this old girl in gas... Gas engines are just too problematic and, honestly... I hate gas engines... It's a personal preference... I just think they're too damn complex... Gomer... Thanks, and yeah... I know. I'm pretty nuts. lol Kyle... Yeah, the brake system will get a nice upgrade in this whole process as well. The NAPA store up in Trent, SD was running a sale on the 30/30 spring brake actuators... I decided to pick up a set for the rear for the price... about $30 a can I think it was. As for rebuilding the S8... Just isn't going to happen... I tried locating parts for her while I was up in SD and it was impossible. NAPA didn't even have the carb in their system to obtain the rebuild kit for that... And that was the simplest thing I had to do. heh... Peter... Not gunna happen. (reasons above) ;) TomC... Definite possibility... I'll keep it in mind and add it to my list... Thanks. Gus... Yeah, speed is an issue. HOLDING speed is the bigger issue. This poor old S8 just couldn't hold speed or gain speed on even a SLIGHT grade... I felt bad for pushing her like I did, but there wasn't much choice.... :/ As for the Cummins... that's on the list of possibilities... I've got a lot of things to research on this part. Len... Yes, I know. And ya know what? I am. I look at it this way... I've already lost everything. So, the $5000 I got from the insurance company for the possibility of getting the bus I'd wanted for so long? That seemed a much better gamble than going to the casinos, and certainly a much more interesting adventure! And, you're certainly welcome to stop over any time. Luvr... It's not likely I'd be able to this coming Jan... but, it will likely be a possibility for 2011... My lack of employment has never lasted as long as it has this time... And I blame the economy. I'm hoping to have employment again by this Christmas... that'll be a full year with no job... It's certainly been the worst year I can recall, but... The silver lining is... I have my dream bus now. Granted... She's got a *LOT* of work ahead of her.... But, that's ok. ----- Whew! I'm sure there was likely another post in the time it took me to reply to these, and I'll have to respond to those later. I'm pretty beat from the trip still, and will be for a couple days yet I'm sure... BUT.... Yes. I know I'm absolutely off my rocker, I'm nuttier than a peanut in a field of acorns and I know I'd be a good candidate for the local Asylum... But I think the adventure of the last two weeks was what I needed. A real break from everything, to get away and to truly FOCUS myself on solving a problem... That problem was "How the hell do I get a bus that hasn't run in 16 years home with the limited cash I have available to me?" The problems were tough... But, as my name suggests... I believe things like this can be done by ordinary folks like us... A deep pocket book certainly helps, but... I truly believe that just having the desire to set your mind to something, to set the goals and power through them one at a time is really the most important thing one can have available to them... Money is certainly nice... And a necessity... But, if one doesn't have the imagination to even think something is possible, then where would ANY of us be? All of us here certainly have that imagination... And I truly hope that I've reminded some of you that a little insanity is a good thing. ;) This was the worst year of my life... As you all know, I pretty much lost everything... I've come to the stark realization that life is really short, and that it's certainly too short to "play it safe"... Taking chances, keeping things up in the air and simply opening your eyes to see beyond what's right in front of me... It's time to do that I think... At least for me, right now... It's time to be a nut and start doing something different... Because, what I've done in the past has obviously not worked out very well. So, yeah... I'm a nut! Who wants to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire to dance on the grill with me? -Mac | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 449 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62 Rating: |
Mac what powerplant and trans do you have in your burnt out bus??? I think I would look long and hard at anything I could salvage off that | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1746 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
A classic coach like that should have a Detroit 6V53T with a RTO 610 Roadranger. Nothing like the singing of a 53 series. If you want an automatic, just put in a take out Duramax with the Allison 6 speed attached. If it is ending up being fairly heavy, then you could go with some kind of diesel and attached transmission take out from a medium duty truck, after you make some measurements. Fred has a good deal, but it may be a little long for your coach. A fellow around here years ago had one of those with a 6-71 in it. It was painted orange. Crawfords Coach may still have a couple of those back in the woods, if you need any parts. They are located in McCoyville, Penna, near Mifflintown. Someone here probably has their number. | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 535 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165 Rating: N/A |
The 4905 is a V drive... The engine MIGHT be usable, but it's awfully big for this little Flx... The tranny would be of no use.... But, it is something I was thinking about... Just not sure how practical that big 8v71 would be yet... I've a lot of work to do before I get to actually doing something about the power plant, it's just something that I need to keep in mind as I assess what needs to be done overall to the coach... I need a welding rig. I need to figure out how to redo rivets as well... I don't want pop-rivets... I want to use REAL rivets to put everything back together... which means steel rivets, not aluminum rivets.... I'm going to start cleanup and teardown of the interior within a week or so probably... It's got an old couch (extremely uncomfortable), a small dinette and a REALLY old household type fridge that has seen better days inside that I need to get rid of... I'll be taking pics and documenting how the skin panels are put together soon as well so that I can keep things in order as she gets disassembled... But I'm not going to start the disassembly of the coach until I get her over to storage, have a good sized tarp to keep everything covered and weatherproofed and get everything blocked up to keep the alignment proper as she comes apart... I'll repair panels as they come off, then move to the next so that by the end of the skin disassembly, the skin panels should be ready to put back on once the subframe members are cleaned up and repaired as well. It's going to be an interesting project... The drivetrain will be the last thing that gets done, honestly... But I anticipate it to be the most difficult aspect of the restoration... So, it's what I wanted to start asking questions about first... Everything else is pretty simple overall... Wiring is greatly simplified, so that's not even a concern. One thing I was wondering, however, is how practical it would be to gain additional interior space without raising the roof (and thus, modifying the original look of the coach)... I have some ideas, but won't know much for sure until I get under the floorboards and can assess what might be possible. As much as I like the manual gearboxes... An automatic might be the way to go, because I can get modules that allow for push-button operation of them to eliminate linkage runs... And using an air throttle would do the same, greatly simplifying a LOT of things... The added bonus of running everything through the frame members (where air lines and such already run) would be that I could easily panel off the bottom of the coach, increasing its aerodynamic efficiency and reducing the amount of maintenance required to keep everything rust-free in the long-term, plus the space between the frame support members is ideal for hiding water and waste tanks and a number of other useful ideas... The question is, has anyone done such a thing with one of these coaches? Is it even possible? I don't know what's between the space under the floor other than the linkage assemblies and wiring runs... So... It's something I'll have a better understanding of as she comes apart... But, the great thing is.... Once I start disassembling her, and have the proper tools... I can do probably 95% of the sheet-metal work myself. Sheet metal is easy to come by from wrecked vehicles in the scrap yard, and I can certainly swing a hammer to shape it... So the body repairs will be relatively inexpensive compared to the mechanical components I'll need once the body work has been completed. Fortunately, that means I have plenty of time, since I expect just the body restoration will take at least a year before reassembly can begin... There's a lot to consider, but... At the same time... With a bus this old, the tech, tools and mechanicals will be pretty simple and overall cheap. And I'm certainly willing to do the work! Once I start... if anyone wants to come over and work on her with me, please feel free to join me... The adventure has begun, and it really is only the beginning of a new life for this old '53 coach. -Mac | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 385 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.77.211.93  Rating: N/A |
Congrats Mac. I know your heart! We are trying to keep the original look but upgraded the engine. There are lots of flex repowers documented and out there. I love shifting too but the auto is so fine, aint looking back. I would bet that old straight eight would bring some big bucks even wore out. check that out. I have a friend with a couple of 8's i will ask him what he thinks, or check out Hemmings. When you recover enough to check out the flex sites you will be amzed. good luck and you are right we are only here once! | ||
| Mark Renner (Boomer)
Registered Member Username: Boomer Post Number: 180 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 70.193.231.255  Rating: N/A |
I was going to recommend the Cummins ISB but Tom C. beat me to it. Small physical dimensions, light weight, good torque and HP, great fuel economy, and should fit in your engine bay with no trouble. Biggest challange is cooling system and CAC, and wiring harnesses. Lots of crashed Dodge pickups around for donor componants. Easy to increase the HP, and Jakes available. Good luck! | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 536 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165 Rating: N/A |
David... That's the thing... I don't think the engine is even close to being worn out... She doesn't smoke a lick. I think that if a new carb were put on (the one that's on IS worn out), she'd be just fine... But I just don't like gas engines (even in cars)... Power is the biggest factor for wanting a diesel... But, my secondary reason is that it's SOOOOO much easier to pull into a diesel pump at a truck stop than it is to try to maneuver up next to a gas pump designed for cars or small RV's... That was the biggest problem (aside from speed) that I had with the bus on the way back... Just getting next to a pump was a HUGE pain in the ass... Truck stops just don't supply gas that's easily accessible to a bus. And I plan to eventually have a toad to haul with me... Backing up into a pump would become next to impossible in most situations... So it just makes more sense for me to switch to a diesel power plant. Mark... It's a definite possibility and on the list for research. Jakes would be a great advantage, and is also something I'd like to have when I repower her... -Mac | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 478 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 70.60.107.113  Rating: N/A |
You guys are selling me on the ISB. I expect that the 6-cyl in my bus will need to be replaced with a N Amer engine in the medium term. I'd like an engine with ~215 HP at about 2K RPM. Oh, fuel econ (I currently get ~12 MPG) and phyical size are important. (Apologies for thread drift - back to your usual program.) | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 997 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 69.19.14.44 Rating: N/A |
One thing to contemplate in the cost of a conversion is the most modern diesels get the best fuel mileage at 1100 to 1300 rpm. To get this rpm at cruise will require a tranny with 2 overdrives and a swop of the rear end. To really maximize the economy you will need a stick or semi auto stick with a rear end gearing that will allow the required low rpm in the straight thru mode of the tranny , with no OD. this is the most efficient tranny rear combo, but its done on big (tandem axle)trucks and the rear at the scrap yard for a smaller truck will not have gearing better than 2.90 or so, not enough. IF you will only be driving 10,000 miles a year a GASOLINE engine will be the easiest (keeps your stock rear) and will have an OD. The modern fuel injection is good enough that the low cost , light weight and less expensive maint and up keep than any diesel should work out. FF | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 104 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.59.114.207  Rating: |
Nice job Mac... I keep thinking, as I'm reading the pros & cons of what you have vs. what has happened & what's gonna happen. You know who loves a good hardship story & just might work with you? Ever watch "OverHaulin'" with Chip Foose?? Hey, you never know. His sponsors just might want to tackle a bus & with your story to tell, it just might fly. Can't win if you don't play. I'd email his site. Better yet, let a family member do it for you so they can steal the bus and play with you. Good luck... | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 661 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.155.14 Rating: N/A |
Good thought JAMO!!!! Hey Mac Try it, You might score a Big run. Tell them about your delima and Go For It!! Gomer | ||
| John (John_t)
Registered Member Username: John_t Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2009 Posted From: 66.244.97.31 Rating: N/A |
WOW do I ADMIRE your taking on such a project, although I do NOT own a Bus Im a dreamer and when I see a picture of one of the old fifties vintage B Model Mack (conventional) busses I get weak in the knees lol. If not a B Model Mack conventional but a standard bus, then Flxbible would be my choice also. Still having been a tinker and farmer and RV and shade tree mechanic all my life I will offfer my suggestions: These ideas are based on a limited budget, if money is no object much of this doesnt apply...... Id go with the 5.9 Cummins and an Allison automatic,,,,,,,,easy to find short length and lightweight standard engine with reasonably priced parts and decent MPG. One dont need the big honkin 400 to 500 HP engines in my opinion Id use a 12 volt system as its so standard and fits any RV appliance out there... A single big honkin (D8 if I recall) 12 volt will start the engine fine and a bank of 6 Trojan golf cart batteries wired series paralell will supply plenty of 12 volts for dry camping. I dont see all the need for rooftop solar collectiors as they are so expensive for what little watts they provide and that depedns on bright sunshine and correct orientation JUST NOT WORTH IT IN MY OPINION if you have a 100 amp alternator and decent sized converter charger it dont take much Diesel engine of genset or plugged into shore powewr run time to charge the batteries versus hoursssssss in the sun for a few watts An inverter is fine but I see no need for a huge expensive 2000 to 4000 watt based on using 6 golf cart batteries. I see a 400 watt as PLENTY to charge your cell phones, digi cams and GPS and TV and run a comupter, while you will have (I assume) maybe a 4 or 5 KW AC diesel generator IFFFFFFFFFFF you need to run ONE rooftop AC. I love the max air powered roof vents, 2 or 3 of them in the roof will really help cool her down when the big AC isnt needed. My BIG THING is water capacity for extended dry camping such as Natl Forest and BLM and ACE and Quartzite etc. I would have NO LESS then 100 gal fresh water storage (heck I increased my lil Class C to 76) and matching 100 gal gray water and at least 50 black water storage. I just bought a Thetford Electra Magic recirculating toilet because it reallyyyyyyyy saves on fresh water use and holding capacity and extends dry camping time a ton. Congratulatipons, best wishes, keep us posted it will be fun to follow your progress Ol John T, BSEE, JD retired electrical engineer and semi retired Country Lawyer in Indiana. | ||
| Peter River (Whitebus)
Registered Member Username: Whitebus Post Number: 159 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 24.234.166.174  Rating: N/A |
while I do own a bus WITH a cummins isb, and know of all the advantages (210HP, 13mpg, on a 35' bus) I wonder why you would take a working classic bus and hack out its classic engine. I would say keep it original, as long as it would go. there are many ways to boost its power without modifying it, propane injection and supercharging comes to mind. | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 450 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62 Rating: N/A |
Peter I think it comes down to servicability if you are going to use it. I have seen many tastful repowers done on these buses | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 537 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165 Rating: N/A |
Ohhhh kay. I really have TWO Primary reasons for getting rid of the original engine and systems: Parts Availability vs Price of those Parts. Also, power. She can't pull herself up a grade, even a slight grade brings her to her knees... and she's empty. What's going to happen when I load her down with that 100 gallons of water? And I do intend on having that much capacity... Not to mention the interior, albeit... The interior will be pretty sparse. No interior walls whatsoever. I saw a pic of one that was done this way... All it had to separate the front from the back was a set of swing-doors, saloon style.. I like it, and it makes sense.... That style of interior also plays into my design goals... Keep the exterior LOOKING like it's stock. Which means... No roof-top air units. Limited engine bay space also eliminates the possibility of engine driven air.... One of the PO's did something in the back end that will work out pretty well.. They put in a regular old window unit. The back wall has a hole cut in it for this purpose, and still has the old window unit... Granted, I'll need a bigger one... Which, I already have (my old room A/C). It's more than enough to cool this little girl... Also, after reading the info on this page ( http://www.flxibleowners.org/flxbk/diesels.htm ), I've decided to go with the suggestion for the engine/tranny combo of the Cummins 5.9 with the Allison 4sp auto. It makes sense, and parts availability is in line with my needs. They're common, easy to find and, according to the Flx site, the preferred combination. So, that's settled. As for the show Overhaulin' with Chip Foose, yes... I watch it. I like his work, and he's got good ethics and taste. I do wonder if he'd really be interested though... It's not a car, but... The Flx is simple enough to make things pretty easy for him I suppose. I'll write him and see what happens... In the meantime... Today I have to figure out what I'm going to do with the old 4905... It can't stay where it is, but it'll be pretty tough for me to get her into storage too. Just one of those things... Lots to do. But, hey... It's a nice day outside and I have my beloved Flx! Maybe, just maybe... My luck is finally turning around for a change... But then again, when you're at the bottom of the gorge, all you can do is climb. lol... -Mac | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 538 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165 Rating: N/A |
Oh... forgot to mention... The genny from the 4905 will be moved over... It's a little genny, but big power. From what I can tell, it's 18Kw. It was running 3 rooftop airs and everything else on the 4905 with no problem, when all 3 A/C's would kick on at once... The genny only made a slight slowdown for about half a second, then resumed normal speed. -Mac | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 309 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208 Rating: N/A |
I would give the 5.9 a lot of thought. I have one in my 1990 Dodge that I have been driving for almost twenty years. Practically bullet proof but with a 10,000 pound trailer, it really bogs down. Granted, it is an older engine without the intercooler, but not a lot of go. I have also driven school buses with that engine and it is not exiting. An 8.3/MD3060 might be a good combo for you if you keep the weight down. Readily available from thousands of garbage trucks. Len | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph7)
Registered Member Username: Ralph7 Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 75.211.71.3 Rating: N/A |
When useing a 5.9 or any turbo charged engine you need to have a aftercooler/inercooler in fresh air. Those doing the repower's on their coaches will have the right way, if done wrong you melt the engine, NO joke. In a normal pickup or truck the aftercooler sets in front of the radiator and above the AC condensor. The HP is not as important as the torque, my son's '92 and '04 have very different HP but the torque of both are nearly the same, but the '92 would out pull the '04. Both units with same rear gear an standerd shift, truck/trailer combined weight 26,000lbs. Both 4x4, dulley's, but the '04 gets a little less milage '92 13mpg '04 11mpg loaded. | ||
| Peter River (Whitebus)
Registered Member Username: Whitebus Post Number: 160 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 24.234.166.174 Rating: N/A |
well if you were going to carry that much weight... that air scoop in the back can feed a huge detroit. there are a lot of school bus being retired with barely 150k. I am sure you can find a nice engine tranny combo. I wonder about people who has that much time to commit to such a project I spent about 10 hours "fixing up" my bus after I got it.. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 663 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.155.14 Rating: N/A |
Hey Pete: Do I detect a little,small,minut streak of laze itis? LOL I still am working on my stuff and don't know where the end is yet but I can see some daylight, if you know what I mean? I admire Mac for doing what he has undertaken tho! Hats Off TO Mac gomer | ||
| Peter River (Whitebus)
Registered Member Username: Whitebus Post Number: 161 Registered: 4-2009 Posted From: 24.234.166.174 Rating: N/A |
^ hehe guilty as charged I have been working overtime on countless doodles on how to arrange things it didn't stop me from traveling over 10,000 miles though... | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 291 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.183.21.246 Rating: N/A |
Hey Mac, Remember even though a 5.9 will be more torque and HP than the straight 8, they still are no road burner. What Len said is right, in a bus they are not very exciting. I drove a 40 foot medical bus with a 5.9 and auto for a couple years with Radiology equipment (pretty heavy) and while it would haul it around, it was no jack rabbit. About 8 or 9 mpg. | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 521 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
Working on the rest of the bus is going to be similar to finding parts for the Buick 8 - It will be rare to find a direct replacement part for anything on that bus. Check for availability & price for a brake drum or wheel hub . . . . Patience is going to be your best friend on this quest. Give it enough time & effort, you'll be able to source every part you need. Coming up with the cash may be another issue. . . . When you change the engine, the new one won't feel the same rowing thru the gears, so that bit of unique personality will be lost. Since you don't care for preserving the historic completeness of the drive train (nuttin' wrong there - your bus, your way), you should also give consideration to replacing the axles with modern stuff that is still easily serviced by the parts store. (Think donor schoolie) As a side note, 20 years ago, NAPA was unbeatable as a parts source for anything. Lately, not so much. But, then again, no one stocks odd stuff anymore & they don't seem interested in looking it up if the computer doesn't hand it to 'em. (My '74 jag is not something they are interested in selling parts for either.) When it comes to parts for my 4501, I have to first learn the existing system & then how that is done on the current vehicles - Then, after I have found what is available, I have to find what will work best. Same as everyone else who is resurrecting an obsolete relic form the past. The people I meet along this path are some of the finest people in the world & I wouldn't have it any other way. Enjoy your journey & the people you meet along the way! | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 452 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62 Rating: N/A |
I don't know I think speed up a grade is kind of a relative thing plus if you have been forced to downshift to get up it you are in a much better possition for descending on the other side. I would much rather be in a low gear with too much braking from the jake on a down grade rather than panicing to slow it down enough to drop a gear without bruning up my brakes. Even my 35' 6-71 5 speed requires me to creep up some of the grades in GA and SC in 3rd or 2nd. I used to think an automatic would be nice but I find I like the control rowing the box gives me in the hills | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 539 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165 Rating: N/A |
It's not so much that I want to GAIN speed up a grade... It's that I want to be capable of HOLDING speed on a grade... I know and understand that, as a bus, she'll never be a speed demon (nor would I want one that was!), but... I don't want to lose speed to the point that I'm literally CRAWLING up a _MODERATE_ grade (think small hill in Texas) in 1st gear doing 10mph... Grades that most other buses, including my 4905 and even most skoolies would be able to climb and hold speed at 60 with no effort at all. Another example would be the problem I had at the gas station where I simply couldn't get out without backing up and taking a running start at it... Had the traffic been heavier, I'd have had a really BIG problem... She simply isn't capable of getting a dead stop start up even a SLIGHT incline like the entrance to the service station... I'm sorry, but that's not right, and it's just plain dangerous. I'm not looking for something that will push me to 80 or 90mph... I just want to be able to get to and hold regular highway speeds... 75 tops... Even though my 4905 could get to 75 and hold that speed up the same grades this tired old Flx choked on, I still kept my 4905 running around 60 and 65 in the interstate. It was a comfortable speed, and on flat ground... The Flx would hold 70 with little effort... It's just that _ANY_ grade kills her... That's my goal for the powerplant and drivetrain... To simply get to and maintain highway speeds while climbing normal highway grades... I don't necessarily care about being able to do 90 up the side of a mountain (nor would I ever do such a thing, even in a Ferrari...) I'm a careful driver. I learn the limits of whatever vehicle I drive, be it a car, pickup or bus, and I make every effort not to even APPROACH those limits. I'll test the limits to see what they are, then maintain a nice safety margin afterwords... I think that this is probably the reason I've _NEVER_ been involved in an accident where I was the driver. Even when I was a teen, just learning to drive... This is how I drove. I was never the kind of person to hot rod or take my car out into a parking lot and do donuts just for the fun of it (unless, of course, there was ice and I was the only one there. ;) ) It simply isn't practical to push a machine to its limits all the time, causing expensive repair bills or having to buy tires every month because I like to smoke them... That's just not me. Now, I will say that on a test drive once... I did take a Mitsubishi GT3000 VR-4 out and smoke the tires with the sales guy in the passenger seat... But, I asked him if I could before I did it. I don't think he ever said "Yes" to anyone else after that though... He was visibly shaken after we got back to the lot. lol... But, at the same time... I knew how to handle the car and made sure it was safe to do so before doing it, and it wasn't in the middle of traffic! But, anyway... My goals for the powerplant/drivetrain are pretty simple, and... I think... Reasonable and realistic. I figure that this old Flx should be able to perform at least as well as the 4905 does. After all, the Flx is MUCH lighter, much smaller and has much more maneuverability than the 4905 does... So, why can't it have at LEAST the same level of highway performance? Even the same performance as a comparably sized skoolie? (Which seems to be the base for these old Flx's)... Am I out of line? Am I being unrealistic in my design needs? Am I a bigger nut than even _I_ think I already am??? (Don't answer that last one! lol) -Mac | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 453 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 74.244.14.221 Rating: N/A |
Mac, Just a sanity check as I had a similar situation happen to me when I first picked up my bus (not being able to make it up a gas station rise) It turned out the person who checked me out on the bus had the shifting pattern wrong and I was starting in second. First on my FLX is all the way left against a spring and back. Ohh and by the way I do agree with the idea of going diesel and think your goals are reasonable....not too nutty by this flx owners standards | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 522 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 72.155.175.247 Rating: N/A |
Might be an interesting exercise to (on the cheap) figgure out where the power loss is coming from. The bus wouldn't have been any good for hauling people if it wouldn't pull a greasy string out of a cat's backside when new. . . Fix the existing issues with the motor & you'll have lots more fun while you bring the ole girl back. It will also buy you lots more time to find the best deal on the new power train. Might be fun to take it to local old car shows & getting the old timers to share some knowledge about the old mechanicals & how they repaired things in the old days. | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 412 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.7.177 Rating: N/A |
I think you ought to take a real close look at buying a good running diesel schoolbus for a donor vehicle. Consider measuring the width as well to see of the axles are the right width. You'd have well maintained, not very old components matched to each other. Brakes, power steering, fuel tank, maybe even some lighting components. Heck, in hot climates, school buses are often air conditioned! Should be able to find something decent for just a few grand that you could drive home. Play your cards right, and you could find a farmer or a junkyard looking for a nice dry shed (bus body). They might well let you strip the axles at their place. | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 413 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.7.177 Rating: N/A |
I think you ought to take a real close look at buying a good running diesel schoolbus for a donor vehicle. Consider measuring the width as well to see of the axles are the right width. You'd have well maintained, not very old components matched to each other. Brakes, power steering, fuel tank, maybe even some lighting components. Heck, in hot climates, school buses are often air conditioned! Should be able to find something decent for just a few grand that you could drive home. Play your cards right, and you could find a farmer or a junkyard looking for a nice dry shed (bus body). They might well let you strip the axles at their place. | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 540 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165 Rating: N/A |
As I understand it... The tranny gear pattern is: 2+R 4 |____| | | 1 3 At least, this is what it SEEMS to be based on the engine whine as I shift through the gears... Perhaps I'm wrong, but this is what just feels right... As for the donor skoolie... That's pretty much what I had in mind to upgrade the mechanical components of this old Flx... Modern driveline, axles, steering and brake components... Though, I don't want engine driven A/C. Even if it would fit, I want to keep things as simple as I can... A/C driven from the genny. Now, I will have a heating system driven from the engine cooling system using heater cores, but... I'm planning on using something like the Webasto heaters as well. Tying that into the engine system seems like a practical way to not only keep the coach heated even when the engine isn't in use, but also gives me the ability to pre-heat the engine in cold weather. Whether or not I end up tying those two systems together that way is up in the air, I'm still playing with ideas, and frankly... I have plenty of time to figure that stuff out. It's going to take a long time to get the body rust straightened out... Once I have the coach apart, I can virtualize the entire process on the computer and get floorplans laid out as well as trial-fit other components before ever purchasing them or installing them based on measurements. After all, what better way to get to know your bus than to completely disassemble it down to the frame rails?? I'll be putting a rubberized coat on everything underneath once the rust and grime is cleaned up as well. I'm thinking something along the lines of Rhino Liner, like what I used to protect the bed of a pickup I once had... That stuff is tough as steel and seems to do a GREAT job at protecting everything, even with just a thin coat of the stuff. I'll also spray the backside of each panel before installing it, and sealing panel to panel surfaces with high temp silicone I think... Seems the appropriate choice. I've seen that stuff get put through absolute hell and stay flexible and retain its sealing qualities for many many years... If money permits later on, I might actually end up replacing some of the non-structural skin panels with aluminum panels instead of steel. Perhaps even crafting some composite panels with carbon fiber, but that's getting a little... "Out There" and just a thought at the moment... Not something I'm really considering as practical at the moment, just something to ponder. I hate to ask this, but does anyone have an old wire welder they'd be willing to send me? Free or really cheap? I had a Lincoln Electric that I had intended to use for sheet metal work... Brand new, never even powered up (many of my tools were new, still in the boxes.  )... I could really use one now for this project. I can do a lot of the repair work with very little money since scrap sheet metal is in abundance here... We have more automotive scrap yards than people it seems in this area, and they have no problems with someone cutting up a dented quarter panel for a couple of bucks. I might even be able to find the engine and tranny locally for cheap too, but it'll be quite some time before I'm ready for that. I'll leave the current engine/tranny in until I'm actually ready for the repower... It's been a late night, my mother isn't doing very well. I've been up keeping an eye on her so she doesn't hurt herself. So... I guess I'll go ahead and work on the writeup of the trip while she sleeps. I'll sleep later after she wakes up and I'm sure she's ok. For now... I'm just sitting here listening. Anyway, I'll post again soon. -Mac | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 310 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208 Rating: N/A |
I agree with Kyle and others. Even though you plan to replace the drive line, if the old Buick is in as good a shape as you say it is, I would spend a few dollars on it just to make it drivable. J.C. Whitney rebuilt carb $145.00 Kanter auto parts http://www.kanter.com/ Ignition kit (points, plugs condenser, cap and rotor) $65.00 Carb Kit $65.00 Full gasket set $179.00 Do a compression check first and if it's good, do the ignition and carb. Not to keep it forever, but to be able to use it now and then. Anyone have a dwell meter?, timing light? | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 665 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.155.14 Rating: N/A |
Yea I do! What else do you need? Motors manuels,compressor checkers, generator testors. They don't call me Packrats for nothing LOL Gomer | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 454 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62 Rating: N/A |
Mac, On coating steel components I know a lot of people who use Por-15 another option that is usually realy inexpensive is coal tar epoxy. I have used that on steel hull boats and it's nearly indestructable if you apply it to a good clean surface. FWIW my shifting pattern is R 2 4 |_|_| | | | 1 3 5 (Message edited by timb on November 12, 2009) | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 541 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165 Rating: N/A |
Sorry, My diagram above is wrong... Swap 1 and 2, but reverse stays where it is. I know... it seems odd, but I swear, that's the way it is... -Mac | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 542 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165 Rating: N/A |
Well, I found a pristine exhaust/intake and carb for the Buick 8... It's over $700. That money (if I had it right now), would be best spent towards the diesel conversion.... For the time being, I'm going to put her into storage and work on the little stuff that I can get to, and can work on. I'll take Silicone sealer and go over all the skin and window sections to keep moisture out (it's very wet in Louisiana) to keep the additional rust to a minimum until I can get to the disassembly of the coach. I'm excited to get started, but... first thing's first at this point... Get money flowing again. Since what I typically do for a living just isn't available here, I'm probably going to end up going back to work in the local support center... A job I despise, but... Money is money at this point. At least she's home, and I have started on the planning phase... That's all I was really hoping for at this time, so... Goal accomplished! I'll let ya'll know what happens as it happens. -Mac | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 523 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 72.155.172.165 Rating: N/A |
Good luck getting silicone to seal any body seams. You'll have better luck with this stuff or something like it. http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/product/universal-vent-installation-kit/4330 There are other places to get it for less . . . (like metal roofing suppliers) This mastic tape has worked very well for me. Enjoy the planning phase. Take your time & let the ideas bloom. You may be surprised where they lead you. When I got my first bus, all I wanted was to put more hp in it & all the crap that went with that mindset. After I gave it time, a much better plan developed & I am so much happier with this plan than the first. I'd have never imagined this at first. Wish I hadn't burned some of those early bridges tho . . . | ||
| Tom Caffrey (Pvcces)
Registered Member Username: Pvcces Post Number: 1307 Registered: 5-2001 Posted From: 63.164.47.227 Rating: N/A |
Silicone sealant is a terrible contaminant even though it is very flexible. It's best avoided if there is any risk of a need to reseal the joints. For what it's worth. Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576 Suncatcher Ketchikan, Alaska | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 667 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.153.91 Rating: N/A |
Mac; I would not put silicon on it as it so hard to remove,as it soaks in whatever it is on. I have painted stuff that has literly had to sand blasted or other means,to remove that stuff. It may be better just to leave it alone and when you get ready to work that area you won't have to worry about silicone. If you clean,blast,sand an area put a good primer/sealer over it and it will be protected pretty good. If you can get it, find epoxy primer in cans and that will seal as well as protect. I don't like doing things twice. That is the best way to tell you what I would do. Gomer | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 311 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208 Rating: N/A |
If you just want to temporarily seal leaks and holes, aluminum air conditioning duct tape sticks to anything and will last for years. | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 544 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165 Rating: N/A |
If you guys are talking about the silicone between skin panels during reassembly... Why wouldn't it seal? Once riveted, the panels should be held well together and not be able to move... The silicone "should" maintain a perfect seal over the remainder of the life of the coach... If, on the other hand, you're talking about my intent to use silicone to seal the seams _now_ while she's in storage... It won't be a problem... Remember, I'm intending do remove every single skin panel, have it sand/media blasted and repaired before reassembly... The silicone is a purely temporary fix for the current long-term problem of leaks to prevent further degradation of the steel between the skin panels and inside the coach. She hasn't been exposed to weather for 16 years... I'm afraid that, now that she's in Louisiana, she'll rot beyond repair quickly if I don't seal everything up NOW, even though it's temporary... I don't want to use a tape, because there's still a great deal of chance that the water will run underneath it. I know it'll be a lot of effort to remove it later, but no more so than I'm already looking at when she's disassembled for resto... So... Which are ya'll talking about? -Mac | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 312 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208 Rating: N/A |
Remember, you heard it here. You'll be sorry you used silicone later, especially if there is any chance you will paint any part of it. It's not just that it's hard to remove, it's damn near impossible to completely remove and it will ruin a good paint job. Cheap latex caulk will keep it dry for a couple of years and be much easier to clean up later. I know that you plan to completely redo every panel, but who knows what turns your project might take over the next few years. | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 668 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.153.91 Rating: N/A |
Mac; even if you used the silicone between the metal it will leak and then when you go to paint it, the paint will not stick in the seams. Trust us on this. All will say the same thing. Like Len said use a latex caulking like tub and tile sealer, then paint will stick to it. Please don't use the silicon sealer. Gomer | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 545 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165 Rating: N/A |
Latex tub 'n tile caulk sounds like a good idea too... Cheaper as well I think. -Mac | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 524 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
Rivets are used to hold the body panels on because they allow movement - otherwise, they'd have used bigger panels & welded them together to start with. Caulks need a gap to work. Think of caulk as a rubberband that is attached to the two different pieces - the bigger the gap, the more movement before the caulk peals away from the part. Silicone caulk may have it's place, but sealing a bus ain't one of 'em. The latex caulk won't seal much better than the silicone. The issue with silicone is the dificulty in removing ALL of it later - otherwise paint won't stick. The mastic tape is the best solution as it will stay pliable for many years. Of all the places I've used it - not one leak since. The alum foil tape will work better than you think. I sealed up a bus several years ago - (including taping over a missing tear-drop window), none of the taped up areas leak. All the areas that I used any form of tube caulk are leaking. I wouldn't waste any time with the cloth duct tape- it won't last long. A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others. | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 546 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165 Rating: N/A |
lol... Well, it is like I said... I have a LOT of time to plan this out and figure out the best way to do anything long before it's done. I'm not in any real hurry to get any of this done... Though, it WOULD be nice to put a good carb on, as the one that's there now is just worn out. I tried to just move the old girl yesterday and she just wouldn't go. The engine revved up just fine, but when load was put onto it, she just bogged down terribly... I know the engine itself is just fine though. No smoke, no water in the oil (or vice-versa)... None of the typical signs of engine failure or wear are present... The only thing left is the carb and intake/exhaust manifolds... Unfortunately, I can't afford any of that right now... So, I'll just wait. I've been pretty good at doing that lately it seems! I'm keeping an eye out for a remote position for the work I do... Maybe one of you knows someone in the industry that's looking for remote employees... I'm a telephony engineer. I design, build and support corporate telephone networks and am trained/certified for a product made by Interactive Intelligence, Inc (aka I3 or ININ) called CIC, EIC, Vonexus, Communite for versions 2.2, 2.3.1, 2.4 and 3.0. So... if anyone hears anything on that front, please let me know. I'm excited to get started on the project, but it's going to be a long (and very worthwhile) project for me... I've been doing a lot of thinking about the paint scheme, and my favorite colors are black and blue... Kindof like what you'd find in deep ocean water... Which got me to thinking... I'm a supporter of the Sea Shepherds and the "Save the Whales" movement... And the body of this bus happens to somewhat mimic the shape of a whale... So... Why not a sea themed "Save the Whales" paint job? I think it would be nice, and would be a perfect platform to spread the word and raise awareness... What do ya'll think? I'll work with Photoshop on some possible designs... but I'm not an artist, so it takes me some time to work on things like that... But, I *AM* very good with Photoshop. -Mac | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 525 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 72.155.172.165 Rating: N/A |
Have you set the ignition timming? Is the coil putting out sufficient voltage? Are the spark plugs working? May be something as simple as an adjustment. . . If the carb throttle plate shaft is so worn as to allow excessive air leaking- you could try putting a glob of heavy grease where the shaft exits the housing to seal it temporarily - see if that makes a diference. Then check for leaks at the base of the carb & manifold to head. If you find no vacuum leaks, try changing the ignition timming a few degrees at a time to see if that makes a difference. Good luck! Worst case is you'll improve your diagnostic skills - should be easier than getting her ready for the ride south! | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 558 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165 Rating: N/A |
Ok. For simplicity's sake, I've decided to (for the moment) keep the Buick Straight 8. I'll eventually get around to replacing it with a diesel and auto tranny, but for now... The Buick is staying. This presents a few problems, but they're "minor" in terms of the work overall that's needed on this coach. So... I'll start out with what I discovered about the tranny. This transmission is at least a 5-sp. Not a 4-sp as previously thought. I haven't had a chance to see if 4th and 5th have secondary gears on them as well yet, but, this is the shift pattern so far: (R)3..5 ..|___| ..|.....| (1)2..4 1st and reverse are accessed by pressing the button on the side of the shifter. What I'm calling first is an EXTREMELY low gear. At full RPM, it only gets fast enough to kick to the next gear and then really take off.... I'd call it the "Dead Weight" gear, as it's definitely not intended to build speed, but intended to just get you MOVING. Perhaps it's better to say L1 and H1 for 1st and 2nd, but who cares... it's there, it works and it sure makes getting the old girl started down the road MUCH easier than previous... This simple oversight on my part made certain aspects of the trip much more difficult than they could (and should) have been... I've now been educated. lol Ok... Because of this, my focus is no longer on the engine/tranny swap as much as it previously was... The engine/tranny will work, but they'll still eventually be replaced. So... The thing is, for me to use the engine... I need to fix it. The exhaust manifold part is, as previously stated, shattered on the bottom end where it would ordinarily mate to the exhaust system... It's impossible to do anything with the exhaust because of this... And it won't pass inspection because of this. The second problem is that during the trip, the manifold gasket cracked and parts of it blew out... Ordinarily, this wouldn't be a problem... After all, the exhaust manifold is shattered already, what's a broken seal? Problem is, the intake is part of the exhaust manifold... and portions of that seal blew out as well... So, now she's sucking unenriched air, as well as exhaust back into the engine... Not good. At the very least, I need to replace the manifolds and gasket... But if I'm going to do this, I'd rather have custom manifolds built and toss on a 4bbl carb. The carb that's on it now is old, no rebuild kits are available and it's just worn out and needs replacement... I've done google searches for just a stock manifold replacement, but can't find reproduction parts for this... There's a guy on eBay selling a stock manifold/carb setup, but... He wants WAY too much for it in my opinion. If I'm going to have to spend that kind of money, I'd rather have something made that's going to work better than stock... Does anyone know of anywhere that sells pre-made headers/intake system for one of these old S8's? What kind of price should I expect if I have these made custom? -Mac | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 108 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.59.114.207 Rating: N/A |
Mac, This has absolutly nothing to offer as to answers to your questions, but if you are still gathering info for a future engine swap, there's an old FLX on Ebay right now & the writeup says it has a V6 Diesel. Might be worth contacing the current owner to see if he did the swap and/or might have some answers to your questions. JFYI Jamo | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 559 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Jamo... but he's guessing a lot about his own rig... I'm thinking he picked it up for pretty cheap and is just looking for a flip. It's doubtful he knows anything about it, and besides... Once I get the intake/exhaust/carb fixed on mine, I'll be able to actually USE her while doing little repairs... So, engine/tranny swap will come eventually, just not any time soon. I'll get the wheel bearings and such done before I take her out on another long trip as well and get the fuel tanks replaced, but aside from that.. Gotta find employment to do much more. That's ok... It'll come eventually! -Mac | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1764 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157 Rating: N/A |
These sites may be helpful for you: http://www.teambuick.com/forums/archive/index.php/f-91.html http://www.teambuick.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7697 | ||
| Bob MacIsaac (Wildbob24)
Registered Member Username: Wildbob24 Post Number: 66 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 68.155.150.83  Rating: N/A |
Mac, You might contact these guys. They're I6 guys but might have some ideas for your 8: http://www.cliffordperformance.net/html_pages/company_pages/contact.html These folks say they have some Buick 8 parts: http://www.marshallsince62.com/id15.html This guy fabricated his own manifolds: http://www.roadmachine.fi/Buick/september2002.html http://www.roadmachine.fi/Buick/april2004.html | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 526 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
Mac, You will have a blast meeting people while you explore the S8. I wouldn't be surprised if you find someone willing to give you parts to keep her running. A cool piece of history you have. . . . Another thought - the S8's usually had low compression - less than 7 to 1, so it'd be easy to bump up the power with a rebuild . . . . You have the luxury of time to ponder the possibilities - enjoy it. | ||
| Donnie Daugherty (Dr_detroit)
Registered Member Username: Dr_detroit Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2008 Posted From: 74.87.222.186  Rating: N/A |
You might check here for some parts. These folks repowered some Flxs and have 3 Straight Eights plus other parts for sale. http://www.hbindustries.us/Parts%20&%20Supplies.html |
