| Author | Message | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.157)
Rating: |
On another board FF states it is best if a macerator pump does not have to lift. So how does one accomplish lifting waste efficiently? My commode will, of needs, sit between the rear wheels on the floor. There is no room to evacuate below floor level, ergo, must be "lifted" to a platform over one wheel. Or am I overlooking something? Thanx, RCB | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.115.215) Rating: N/A |
The macerator pumps like all pumps much prefer to PUSH . They have a hard time getting primed to lift the black goo. Or takes a grindingly long time to have enough air out to begin to pump. This dry time wears & overheats the pump. Lifting from a tank is very poor practice as its very hard to get all of "it", so there will be a slow buildup inside the tank reducing the tanks volume. Spray nozzels ect are poor at cleaning the tank and take a very long time to do very little. I would look at fixing a dump valve some place in the bottom of the tank and using the remote controll feature of some of the mfg. Again Dupree does a great job. If there is no way to alter the instalation I would at least have a large "man hole" in the top so at times you can break out the solids and get them out. I would also look for a Headhunter, Redd Fox or similar marine style unit to pump the waste , and stay away from the PAR or Jabsco cheapies. There are waste pumps in Grangers , perhaps one could be installed inside the tank? FAST FRED | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.115.215) Rating: N/A |
PS, if only the toilet is located in a place not over the tank , there ARE toilets that can push & chop waste.The pump is on the bottom so there is only pushing to the waste tank. This would be far easier to maintain than attempting to suck an entire tank of waste thru the macerator pump. If the macerator can just be clipped on to a std outlet , for the times its needed , thats the longest lasting solution. FAST FRED | ||
| Stan (64.154.138.73) Rating: N/A |
Without any idea of the layout of your bus, would it be possible to use one of the short toilets that are made to mount on an above floor holding tank? If it is possible to run the drain line above floor, you could make the short run over the axle and drop into the holding tank. The drawback is that with a horizontal run you would have to ensure that the pipe stays clean with the small volume of water in a RV toilet flush. | ||
| johnwood (206.252.250.155) Rating: N/A |
Fred; I think that you have had a stroke of genius! Yes, there are many sewer lift pumps for homes that could easily be fitted into the holding tank and are much more reliable and beefy than the RV units. Would simplify the plumbing as well. | ||
| R.C,Bishop (128.123.221.215)
Rating: N/A |
Fred, you have the picture on the PS. The stool is mounted on the floor between the wheel wells. I need to pump up about 8 inches minimum, over the wheel well and across about 30 inches of platform to a tank beyond. OR...pump up high on the platform to a tank sitting there on. Dumping is not the problem, as I see it. Have any ideas about brand of toilets. You mention cheapie Jabsco stuff....what would you recommend? Thanx. RCB | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.115.225) Rating: N/A |
If you don't mind a tiny bit of work a manual marine head will pump those distances with ease. They usually need 1 1/2 sewer hose and have the equal of a J trap built in . In the marine toilet its called a Joker valve . Get a West Marine or Defender Industries catalog & you will fins many brands. They DO use a bit more water than the std RV head (toilet) but thats the price for having the layout you want. The electric versions of the manual Marine toilets also work easily , but at some cost to your batterys. The marine head does not usually have a macerator ( esp. in the hand models) but will remove your finest movement, with lifting ability to about a 4ft hight. Sewer hose is far better than radiator or FW hose , as it has a smell proof lining. FAST FRED | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.156)
Rating: N/A |
Perhaps I don't understand the difference between an electric and a macerator..I thought they were one and the same. That is what one gets for assuming, I guess. We are not locked into anything except a china bowl, and if the manual units are as good as you say, they are worth considering, but on second thought, rather than convert later, it might be best to just bite the bullet at the original installation. I note there are electric/manual combinations available. We have Defender, WM and Hamilton catalogs, so we'll re-look see. The "Joker" valve..is that the one that goes up instead of down. vented at the top and dumping directly into the tank? Probably makes evacuation from the tank easer as well. Batteries are not a real problem at this time. We are pretty conservative in our use of electrical stuff; even when "hooked up". True at home as well. Thanx for the additional input. | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.115.80) Rating: N/A |
A marine head will push your output a reasonable distance. UP to you if you want to rock a handle a few strokes or push a button. The electric motor frequently just bolts on where the handle was ,but is NOT too quiet. A Macerator is a device for choping up waste to a fine slurry that can then be pushed thru a hose a good distance.Frequently just locked on where the std discharge hose would go & powered up, when needed. The usual macerator use is for camping at a friends & empting your tanks into his home septic or sewer system. So you can stay longer with out moving. Yes, there IS some break up of waste from the marine head , but movement a few feet is its purpose. The Joker valve is a rubber device that works as a one way waste check valve & is in the head output. The "vented waste loop " you describe is to prevent back syphoning , of sea water or waste from the holding tank . This is needed on a vessel as the head may be below the tank or sea level. Should not normally be needed on a camper. FAST FRED | ||
| Peter (Sdibaja) (209.242.148.130)
Rating: N/A |
I have about 30' of dump RV hose and manage to dump in a home sewer clean out, street manhole, or I just head out to a dump station. My next improvement will be to add 100 gallons of black water tankage so my time will be extended by about two or three weeks. I would advise doing all you can to avoid using a macerator or any other sewer pump. Marine heads have pumps that work very well, but they have small passages and clog too. There is nothing more hateful than having to repair a jammed macerator (the worst) or pump when it is full of raw sewer. Keep it Simple: use big pipes and valves that can be flushed and unclogged from above. IMHO Peter | ||
| Gary Carter (68.25.246.30) Rating: N/A |
We have a Microphor (www.microphor.com) air operated toilet in our coach. Due to the fact the toilet is not over the tank the waste has to be pumped to the tank. Would work for this installation. We have a small DC air pump to maintain air in the toilet supply tank when bus air not available. | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (65.194.145.39)
Rating: N/A |
Hey R.C.; Long Post I have not read the other many posts regarding your pump soossss bear with me. I have kinda the same problem with My '74 Crown 10-wheeler as you have with yours- regarding pumping stuff around like gray and black water. First off, have you considered a manual, hand pumped macerator pump vs. an electric model? With a hand pump, you can "feel" when the pump establishes prime and is pumping. Like a marine toilet with a hand pump. Ask Fast Fred. You can also feel when the mini holding tank below the toilet is empty and you can stop working the handle. Kinda low teck, but it could solve some otherwise sluggey problems. I have found thru experience with the old homestead that while some plans look OK on paper, in reality they do not work out that great. The lower the pump below the toilet tank (greater distance or "head") the better the pump will prime and work. Also, the larger diameter the "drafting pipe" can be, the better the pump will suck or lift and the better and easier it will pump. Also, on the sucking or drafting side, any sharp bends or corners really hurt. Finally, as with most type pumps regardless of construction, the less lift they are expected to pump will result in better pump performance. I am retired fire service and I remember this from my old fire engineer days years ago. I believe any type macerator pump will lift the stuff to transfer it to the top of your holding tank that will rest on top of the wheel well. You are only talking about 2 or 3 feet max. My grey and black tanks are also going to be located there. A check valve may be needed. How about mounting the pump nearly beneath the toilet UNDER the floor somewhere around the 8 drivers? The lateral distance from the toilet is not actually that important-you can mount the pump quite a few feet from the toilet and it will still work. Lateral drafting distance is not that important--head distance is. What is more important is that the diameter of pipe used from the toilet to the pump be of fairly good diameter and that there are NOT any sharp bends or curves. Also the pipe needs to be rigid sooos it will not collapse under suction. Good luck and CROWNS FOREVER!!! | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.215)
Rating: N/A |
Thanx for all the input. We purchased a small Wilcox Crittendon from Defender. Called the Head Mate, I believe. Want to see if it does what we need it to do before spending bigger bucks. This is a manual pump model. Bought it right at the "Boat Show Price"of $99 plus freight. If it will go a couple of years, it has been worth the trial price. Others sell the same for considerably more. Now some more questions for FF and others familiar with marine heads. Since this is a hand pump unit, does it accept inflow of water from a pressurized system, or do we need to fill a tank and work from there? We were looking for a low profile unit and this is it. If we put it on a platform, equal to the height of the wheelwell, it will sit at 20", which suits my other half just fine. A tank could be put under it for fresh water. And there is a shutoff valve available. The black water tank is on the other side of the wheel well, which is adjacent to the head, and waste will be pumped across the platform to a blackwater holding tank, about 32 inches. The discharge port faces downward, but it is apparently movable to any direction, or?? Absolutely no information about this or direction of placement other than to the rear of the head. Also, am assuming fresh water is not as hard on seals, O rings, etc as salt water. Can one reasonably expect more than a year of use without an overhaul? Time will tell if this is the way to go, but at the price, it is worth the attempt. Thanx in advance.  RCB | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.115.116) Rating: N/A |
"Since this is a hand pump unit, does it accept inflow of water from a pressurized system, or do we need to fill a tank and work from there? We were looking for a low profile unit and this is it. If we put it on a platform, equal to the height of the wheelwell, it will sit at 20", which suits my other half just fine. A tank could be put under it for fresh water. And there is a shutoff valve available." The pump is NOT designed to accept pressure , you could just run a pickup out of the FW tank & the inlet pump will lift just fine. As with any pump sucking a larger ,rather than smaller inlet hose wlill make pumping easier. "The black water tank is on the other side of the wheel well, which is adjacent to the head, and waste will be pumped across the platform to a blackwater holding tank, about 32 inches." No problem,just use the 1 1/2 WASTE hose , (rubber & some plastics leak smells), that was designed for this use. Face the discharge to suit your self. The units operate just fine on sea water , they wear out from use , like anything else. Be sure to fam yourself with the unit & find the joker valve , usually behind the discharge elbow. Thats what gets plugged if someone puts things (besides TP)thru the toilet that havent been eaten. I'm sure it will work , your dealing with 75 year old tech, Think good thoughts the first time you use "the Library"! FAST FRED | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.139)
Rating: N/A |
As I suspected. And,as they say, hope everything comes out alright... Thanx Mucho, Fred! RCB |
