| Author | Message | ||
| Charlie Sizemore (Goldenhawk)
Registered Member Username: Goldenhawk Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 166.214.100.196 Rating: |
You guys and gals seem to have some sort of a crystal ball that gives one a cursory background on buses. As I've mentioned I'm looking at a '76 4905 and have learned that the serial no. or vin no. or whatever it's called is 5A1398. I suspect there's a way for me to do this myself but I don't know how. And while I'm entertaining my insomnia until it's time to go to work, how many air conditioners does a 40 ft. Buffalo need? I'm told it needs three. I would imagine that the size of the unit matters which would in turn influence the size of generator required. Which would in turn depend upon other things I may need, such as a microwave, water heater and refrigerator. I'm not sure I need a shower since we've never used the one in the motor home - we get a motel room. But maybe I should consider this just in case I change my mind. At any rate, I'm going to get by with the restroom that came with it. I'm not thrilled about going into the bus business but I've been traveling for over 30 years in vans and motor homes and if I could find a way to see my way clear to owning a bus this would make things more comfortable. I would guess that a bus has heating and air when on the road without a generator and furnace. Is this so? I've ordered the conversion bible but haven't gotten it yet. Not an easy question to answer, I know, but what is the preferred combination of roof airs and and generator? And how much of a chore is it to get these set up? Should one buy a new generator? Seems to me that a diesel gen is the way to go - from what I've read here - but this opinion is not unanimous. I've read a far amount about these issues here on this list but some of it seems a bit complicated. The bus is pretty, seems to run well and is solid as best I can tell. I probably could buy it for around 8k - maybe a bit less. Got a few seats in it and they are in pretty good shape. 8V71 engine, automatic transmission. Supposed to have a relatively recent rebuild but this is word of mouth from the fellow who owns it. I don't doubt his word but he didn't get any documentation when he bought it five or six years ago. Says he has over 20k in it with paint, caps (that look surprisingly good) and some sort of steering parts. And one more thing, what does one do first to the interior. I seem to have read about insulation and flooring and such, which I guess would come after the wiring job. Is the basic interor stuff a big job? Expensive? If I buy it I expect to do the minimum to keep it functional as I plod along toward some semblence of a conversion. Maybe after this I'll need to put in a few bunks. A lot to digest. Didn't mean to go on so long. Anyone can take a shot at any of these at your leisure or if you're as tired as I am just ignore it until you find yourself in a particularly altruistic mood and with too much time on your hands. Thanks. Charlie | ||
| Patrick levenson (Zubzub)
Registered Member Username: Zubzub Post Number: 126 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 174.91.226.239  Rating: |
If your not into buses don't get a bus...but if you must get one buy one already converted as they are the better deal ( tons of sweat equity). Also read all you can on this forum and Mac to learn what you need to know | ||
| macgyver (91flyer)
Registered Member Username: 91flyer Post Number: 556 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 74.193.188.165  Rating: N/A |
Air conditioning depends on whether the stock insulation is still in place, or if it's been replaced with a more modern insulation and how thick it is, as well as whether the roof was well insulated during the conversion or not... I had three on my 4905 before it burned, and they were enough. The stock A/C system is very expensive to maintain, but... if it works, there's no reason to dismantle it. When it begins losing freon at an unacceptable rate, however... It'll be time to ditch it and rely on roof/basement air units, however. Jack Conrad has a VERY nice basement air setup... No roof mounted units. Personally, I don't like roof units... They detract from the coaches engineered beauty, but the cost of 3 roof units vs. one basement unit may be comparable... Since it sounds like you're looking at a bus that hasn't been converted yet, you have a blank slate... The first thing I recommend you do is get a book on building boat interiors.. As much of what you do will have been done before, but in boats. Don't use heavy materials like granite and marble. Remember, the more weight you add, the worse the bus will perform which will decrease the already terrible fuel mileage a bus already gets. They have very powerful engines, but... That power comes at the cost of high fuel usage... It's expected. Keep the overall weight down, and your engine will use less fuel overall. Gas vs. Diesel... This really isn't a debate I don't think. If your rig uses diesel (which the one you're looking at does), then use a diesel genny. If it's a gasser (which yours would not be), then use a gas genny. Pretty simple decision to make... As for how "big" of a genny... depends on your expected usage... Do you really NEED to run all 3 roof airs (if that's the route you choose)? If you can answer yes to that, then you get a big genny. If not, get one sized to what you're expecting to use... I think mine is 18k and pushed all 3 air units without any difficulty whatsoever, but again... Bigger engine = more fuel = more expensive to operate. Then again, on the flip side of that... You state you don't really plan to use a shower even.. Based on your past experience with "motorhomes"... I'll tell you right now... Throw that experience out the window. Anything you experienced in a motorhome won't be of much use to you in a bus... things work differently, a bus handles differently, a bus is more comfortable... But, I digress... If you don't really even plan to use a shower in the bus, why would you need a big genny to push multiple A/C units? New vs. used genny... Depends... If you find a good used genny, I'd go that route... it's cheaper. But, if you think you have a deal, and it later turns out that the genny was horribly abused and requires expensive repairs, then buying new might make more sense.. Get the genny examined by a reputable dealer before purchase. I personally prefer to buy used.. It's a nice price savings. It sounds to me like you're trying to make more of an RV than a camper... Purly for recreational use vs. live aboard use. In that case, a small genny to push one of the A/C's would probably suffice and then wire your systems in so you can plug in at an RV park for the real juice draws. Or am I misreading your intentions? You need to tell us what your intended use of the bus really is before anyone can really give you any definitive answers... A general idea of what you're looking to cap your expenses to for the conversion would be another thing we'd need to know.... If you're looking at spending only $5000 for the conversion itself, then your options are pretty spartan... On the other hand, if you have $20,000 to play with... Then there's quite a lot that can be done to make the coach much more than just livable and she could be made into a livable unit that one could comfortable tour the countrysides in... Again, it depends on your intended use and budget constraints. It'll be best to start with small, specific questions and lay out for us what you're wanting to do... Being specific is the key to getting a specific answer. General questions will get general answers... Buying a big bus isn't a decision one really makes lightly... But, buying a bus that's just going to sit in your driveway most of the time isn't a good choice either. Buses were designed to be on the move, constantly. They don't like sitting still. Ask anyone who has one, or who has owned one in the past... The longer they sit still, the more things tend to break. The more they're used and in motion, the better they run, the less things break and the "happier" they are overall. Buses are GREAT to have.... Just make sure you're prepared for what you're getting yourself into. They aren't cheap machines to maintain, especially when left sitting for weeks or months on end. I'm not trying to deter you from getting one by any means... I'm just stating the truth from my own experiences thus far. I will say this... Once you get one, you'll never go back to a plain old Sticks & Staples "motorhome". We call our coaches "Motor Coaches", not "Motorhomes" for a reason. ;) Buses are the limos of RV's!  -Mac | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1004 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.82.162.21  Rating: N/A |
The biggest need for AC is determined by the color of the roof. White on white roof and awnings on BOTH sides will allow a single unit to cool the bus , but any window in the sun will need an OUTSIDE sun blocker. The long length may require 2 units to cycle or just a basement unit. AC is easy as the temps differential is low , 105F outside 75 inside DT 30 deg ,is not a problem if the insolation (the suns direct heat) is taken care of. Cheapest of course is to park under a big tree! FF | ||
| Josh McElhiney (Zcommanager)
Registered Member Username: Zcommanager Post Number: 104 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 75.187.41.177  Rating: N/A |
Charlie - I would agree with Mac & Zub; if you're not into buses, then don't get one, or buy one already converted. You mentioned in another post that you have some familiarity with the coach owned by Tom Hall and Vern Gosdin. Make an offer on that one, I'm sure the family is willing to negotiate now that it has been listed unsuccessfuly on FleaBay several times. Looks to need only a paint job. Coaches truly are a labor of love and require constant attention - much like that of a new-born baby. And they can be just as cantankerous as well. If you're not prepared to make that deep of a commitment to owning one, than perhaps you would be better off sticking with a "stick & staple" motorhome - especially if you are only going to use it to go from hotel-to-hotel. But as Fast Fred always says, "Do it your way!" Good Luck! Josh | ||
| John and Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 296 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.183.21.246  Rating: N/A |
Hello and welcome Charlie. If this is the Charlie from the Clinch Mountain Boys, I am a huge fan! If its someone else, you are using a great bluegrass guys name!. In any case Charlie, I started by getting a stripped out bus with all the good intentions of building it myself. I bought thousands and thousands of dollars worth of cupboards, generators, bathrooms, kitchens, air conditioners and on and on. It was at this point that I realized that I would be 142 years old before I even got the basic stuff done! There are hundreds of beautiful conversions out there for less than half the money than just the individual components would cost. I bought one already converted and am spending my time using it for the band and our RV and meanwhile changing the things I want to update on it. That being said, travel in a bus is head and shoulders above travel in a motorhome. So do your homework and look around. Make sure the conversion was not a slop job and I don't think you would ever regret it. John T | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 418 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.0.219 Rating: |
The amount of AC and generator are dependant on where you will use the bus. My friend Fast Fred is fortunate in that he normally winters in FL and summers in CT. We have two 13,500 BTU Coleman roof airs on a 35' GM with a white roof. They are not enough when driving in the South in Summer. They were not enough when parked in South Florida last June when the outside temp was over 100. There are hotter places than that. You can always turn them off but you can't turn on one that isn't there. I'd do at least three with two of those in the forward half of the bus. I have seen quite a few 40' bus/motorhomes with FIVE units. Now as for gensets. We run two ACs, coffeepot, house type water heater, toaster oven, lights, TV, etc on a 6500 watt (6.5 KW Onan gasoline RV genset). It has no trouble starting the AC units even when EVERYTHING else is turned on. In fact when I adjust it, I have to plug in an extra 1000 watt portable electric heater to get to 6500 watts. A diesel will have even better torque to start loads. So with 3 airs I wouldn't get more than a 10KW genset. Four airs, and a an electric stove, a 12KW is the same power as a 50 amp/240 shore cord. People typically buy way too much genset for their boats & RVs but that's not helping the genset if it's diesel. A diesel needs to work and if it is always underloaded it will carbon up and use lots of oil. And with a diesel bus, buy a diesel genset. We have to go to the car side of truck stops to fuel because we have to buy gas for the genset. It takes a LONG time to fill up 110 gallons of diesel from the little car nozzle and then we have to start another pump to buy gasoline. It's also more dificult to navigate around the car gas island because it is sized for cars. We are 55' long with the toad with a 35' footer. A 40' bus & toad will be about 60'. The truck side pumps 100 gal in about 2 minutes and they are easy pull through lanes. In addition, there are times when we can't use the bus for several months. Gasoline goes bad in that amount of time, causing me to have to drain the tank and remove & clean out the carburetor. I know, I could put stabilizer in the gas & gain a few months but I never know when I'm not going to use the bus. Diesel can sit for years. Now about the bathroom. I can certainly understand why you would prefer a motel shower to the play shower in most RVs, but the original bus toilet, sink & holding tank are not adequate for an RV. It was designed to emptied of waste & filled with water about every 500 miles in a bus station with the correctly designed fill/dump station (usually on the curb or "wrong" side of the bus. RV dumps are on the driver's side. You will also have a kitchen sink. The kitchen sink probably can't be made to drain into the rear holding tank. Do yourself a favor and rip out the bus toilet room and install a nice, comfortable bathroom with a generous sized shower and about 100 gallons of fresh water and waste water tankage. If you always stay in motels anyway, why not just buy a Caddy or Lincoln or a diesel Expedition and save about $30K? It would get about 22 MPG instead of 6. We have calculated that for trips of 3 days or less, it's cheaper to stay in motels and eat in restaurants. Just my view. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1645 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.182.48.162  Rating: N/A |
Charlie - If the VIN on the coach is P8M4905A-1398, that bus was delivered new as fleet number P-764 in June of 1976 to Piedmont Coach Lines, based out of Winston-Salem, NC. Before you make the plunge, you need to SERIOUSLY think about what you want to DO with a bus. They are the ultimate motorhome in terms of comfort and safety, compared to the throw-away, fiberglass & sticks, truck-chassied Winnibuggys. But that comes at a price - parts are more expensive, but you'll rarely have to replace that part again during your ownership. With the overall economy in the toilet, it makes far more sense to purchase a coach that's already converted and ready to roll, compared to putting over 3,000 hours of sweat equity into a shell. You need to spend more time doing your homework on this before you buy - it's very, very easy to buy a bus, but one heck of a lot harder to sell a mistake. FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Charlie Sizemore (Goldenhawk)
Registered Member Username: Goldenhawk Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2009 Posted From: 74.239.96.212 Rating: |
Lot of good stuff to think about here. First, it's not all that unusual for me to travel 1,500 to 2,000 miles in a weekend. I'm up for this even in a 15 passenger van but, how to put this, most pickers I know wouldn't last long in Ralph Stanley's band when five or six of us traveled in a 26 or 27 foot motor home half of which Ralph had cordoned off yet never seemed to use. We were on the road easily 200 days a year. He finally bought a 4104 right before I left in '86. I must say I felt like I was in heaven as compared to the motor homes - which wore out after three years or so. In the business I'm in we do mostly bluegrass festivals in the summer. Here's where the van is a problem. You're on the festival grounds for eight or ten hours with nowhere to rest or cool off. First show may be at 2:00 p.m. and the second one eight hours later. When I say I'm not into buses I mean that I just don't know much about them. For example, is "basement air" just a generator that sends cool air up through the registers or do you have to keep the engine running? The motor homes I see don't seem to be set up for a traveling band. They tend to be noisy. Nobody wants to sleep in the back when we're rolling and there's just not that much room up front. Further, storage is a problem. By the time you get five or six musicians, instruments, including an acoustic bass, merchandise, and luggage, etc. loaded it's packed pretty tight. Two days out everything is everywhere from people digging around to find this that or the other. I am certain of one thing: motor homes ride like motor homes. They just don't seem to be built to comfortably transport a band several hundred miles a night between shows. There was a time when bands traveled in Caddys and Lincolns and on two-lane roads. I'd like to think I could do this but I doubt I'd find many takers to share in this mode of travel. For good or ill, a bus these days is seen more as a necessity than a luxury. Be this as it may, sometimes I'm tempted to just get a decent sized motor home, tear out a bunch of stuff that is seldom if ever used such as the stove and oven and large refrigerator, move the storage to the back and put in three bunks. Not good for resale value I suppose and I'm not sure how well it would work anyway. You've given me much to think about. I do appreciate your taking the time to let me know your thoughts. I take all of these seriously. Thanks again. Charlie | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 317 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208  Rating: N/A |
Just hang around here and at the MAK board http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php for a while. Lot's of musicians here that know exactly what you are looking for. (I'm not one of them, but I have had some experience working on entertainer coaches). I agree, buy one that is already built, but be very careful in buying a used entertainer coach. Many of them have been badly abused. Len | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1646 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.182.48.162 Rating: N/A |
Charlie - NOW we're getting somewhere - you need an "entertainer" coach - one that's designed to haul a band & it's gear from gig to gig. Now that we've established that parameter, the next question is: How many bunks are needed? 4? 6? 9? 12? Four or six can fit into a 35-footer, but to squeeze in 9 or 12, you'd need a 45-foot rig. What else do you need/want? Most come with a restroom, but not all a shower. Galleys are also common, but usually bare necessity - microwave, fridge, sink. Nashville's one of the hubs for entertainer coaches, lots are built & sold in the area - literally in your own backyard! One of the larger dealers is N of Nashville on I-65 in Goodlettsville - Busforsale. Take a ride up there and look over what they've got to really get a feel for what these rigs can do. FYI, Eagles were the favorite entertainer coach for a long time, due to their Torsilastic suspension, which has a much different "feel" than air ride. Nowadays, the air suspended Prevost is the market leader. This should help get you pointed in the right direction as you do your homework. Oh, and be aware that the market for used entertainer coaches is very, very limited, primarily because they have a reputation of being ridden hard and put away wet. Doesn't mean that you cannot find a good one, it just means you've got to dig a little deeper. Can also make for a good negotiating position - the longer it sits on the lot, the more likely the dealer will accept "more reasonable" offers. Len mentioned the other popular bus BBS - BusConversions. Often on that board you'll see postings by "Busted Knuckle", whose family runs a charter bus company based in Union City, TN. I'm pretty sure that if you found a coach somewhat to your liking, for a reasonable offer, BK & his dad would go over the bus for you, giving it an inspection that might make the seller quiver, and quite possibly save you a huge chunk of change. FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 146 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
I have an AMGeneral 40ft x 102 wide transit with big windows, but also with 2.25" of sprayed in foam insulation. I only have 3 roof airs (13,500btu/hr Coleman's) for my A/C. Front is mounted forward so it can blow on me when driving, second in the center and rear over the bed. I've driven in as hot as 108 degree weather and two will keep the bus below 80 degrees inside. Kick on the third and my wife puts on a sweater. I have a 10kw Diesel Powertech genset that I run going down the road if I need A/C. I loose about a half mile to the gallon when it is running. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 419 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.0.219 Rating: N/A |
Charlie, RJ has it dead on. Used entertainer coaches are not much in demand by people who want to build a motorhome because we'd have to buy a bunch of stuff we'd tear out & redo so they don't fetch very good prices from us. We're better off with a seated bus or gutted "shell". An entertainer (or "band bus") is exactly what you are looking for and you should be able to find a nice one that is too dated for today's "glass & mirror" lease business. But as he says, you need to find someone knowledgeable & honest to inspect the bus. "Busted Knuckle" would be great & they are reasonably close to Nashville. Luke Bonagdura up in Jersey would be great if you found something up that way. With this board, you should be able to line up someone for other areas. If you paid $1000 for such an inspection you'd be way ahead but I'll bet it wouldn't be that much. | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 372 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
RJ Would you have a contact number for "Busted Knuckle"? My daughter has a friend that is looking at buying a bandbus in Nashville. A good thorough impartial inspection might save them some headaches and cash. Joe. | ||
| Dallas Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 13 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 75.88.2.114 Rating: N/A |
I've forgotten Bryces (Busted Knuckle) number, but you might cive Choo-Choo Express Garage in Chattanooga a call... 423.260.1290 Don Bowen runs the place but Joel is the real guy that knows all about this stuff. (Don't tell either of them I said that) Don has working on buses since Jesus wore short pants and Joel is the next best thing to sliced bread... Even Bryce takes his stuff there to be worked on. | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1648 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.182.48.162 Rating: N/A |
Joe & Charlie - Here's a link to Busted Knuckle's website. Contact info is there: www.kylakesidetravel.net FWIW & HTH. . . | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1171 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 74.4.55.77  Rating: N/A |
Charlie, To see some entertainer coaches click on www.horizoncoach.com They are located in Arcadia, FL and broker a lot of coaches for ECA (Entertainer Coaches of America) out of Leesburg, Fl. |
