| Author |
Message |
CoryDaneRTSIIIL (4.17.253.218)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 5:07 am: | |
I have a question that I am particularly interested in right now since I am in the "Wiring" stage of the bus.
My DASH has these guages,,,, MPH, 12 volt, 24 volt and air psi guages as well as the idiot panel. I will add a tach/fuel use computer, I think a fuel guage and a pyrometer(EGT).
NOW, since I see all these meter on the market, would I need a FUEL psi or OIL psi or WATER TEMP or any other additional guage that I have not seen yet???
I need to make firm plans for the dash since once the wiring is closed up, I dont plan to open it again except for maintenance.
OH, WHILE I am still in wiring, where do you get those after market cruise controls, like S Sanford installed??? I think his was the best idea and the install was nifty. Can't go driving around without a cruise in a Sporty RTSII, HAHAHAhahAHAhahAhaHAhahaaaaa.. thanks ever so much.
Thanks for your thoughts. cd |
DrEd (65.134.243.115)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 6:02 am: | |
CD, why not run some extra wires just in case sometime you may want to add another gauge. Thanks, DrEd |
Craig S (65.202.123.254)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 8:35 am: | |
Hi CD,
I would consider adding water temp and perhaps a tach. My water temp was very valuable when climbing up and down the hills in the northeast last summer.
Craig S |
modelt (208.18.102.157)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 9:38 am: | |
Air pressure a must.
Oil pressure a must.
Engine temperature a must.
Charging (amp or volt) a must.
Speedometer should have.
Tach would be nice.
Pyrometer would be nice.
They make a neat digital panel which has all of those goodies which is only a couple inches tall a about 12 long which has all the main goodies plus the turn indicators, bright light indicator,Tach, speed, tach.
If interested I can get you the link.
Larry |
Craig S (65.202.123.254)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 9:51 am: | |
Hi Larry,
Please post the link for all to see. Sounds like a nice unit.
Craig S |
FAST FRED (209.26.115.19)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:35 pm: | |
I would spring the extra few bucks for a Digital volt meter , as the charge indicator.
The usual coach V-regulator dies and frequently gives the batteries a hardly needed high voltage charge.
Rather than boil all the water out , a glance at the digital showing over 14.4 V would be enough to STOP immediatly .
FAST FRED |
CoryDaneRTSIIIL (4.17.253.90)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 12:43 pm: | |
So where does the relationship or surveilance differ between the EGT (pyrometer) and the water temp guages?? I had thought that having one is good but they did basically the same job.
Also does a diesel have a wide area of oil psi that it must be monitored? Most cars don't even have em and have an idiot light. Is this just a "Sports Car Dash" version for looks or is there a big reason why we need it? Just asking in case someone askes me sometime. cd |
TomNPat (66.82.9.35)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 3:27 pm: | |
Agree with Craig S., Larry, would like to see that gauge setup.
Cory, think that the oil psi at 40 this week, 30 next week would indicate something that an idiot light wouldn't.
George Myers once wrote that a brake application pressure gauge might be valuable, but that's probably mechanical rather than electrical.
Good to hear from Fast Fred, too.
Darn, I get some Good Ideas here!
TomNPat |
Mrbus (64.12.96.235)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 5:24 pm: | |
Cory,
I do not believe that any of the gauges are just for show if you monitor them and understand what they are telling you. The oil pressure guage could alert you to a failure before it leaves you sitting on the road side. The same with the water temp. gauge, if you are loosing water the temp gauge will show it before the pyrometer if you do not have your foot on the floor. Transmission and rear end temp gauges will also give you a heads up before a major meltdown. the fuel pressure gauge if mounted between the primary and secondary filter will give you information on a restricted filter, if the pressure goes up, it is the secondary, if it goes down, it will be the primary, no need to change both, and you will be able to catch it before it shuts you down. Basically the same for any gauge that is properly installed and monitored. And as Fred stated, the voltage reading can save you $$, when the red light would not be on because it only reads low output. Just my opinion, but I am known to like gauges that work.
Gus Haag |
modelt (208.18.102.15)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 6:33 pm: | |
Hope this all shows up but I did include the part number also and mfg name.
http://store.summitracing.com/
Nordskog To see it with black Bezel click on item.
NRD-DP10002G
http://store.summitracing.com/
Accuracy, reliability, and cool looks in one package.
13.8 in. long, 3.25 in. high, green LEDs, 6 gauge, digital gauge panel
This sophisticated Universal Digital Gauge Panel has Hewlett Packard LED's in super bright green for direct sunlight viewing. Its RISC based microprocessors help provide accurate, and stable readings of vital performance information. This panel includes a self calibrating speedometer with odometer, tachometer, water temperature, volts, oil pressure, and fuel level gauges--and all of the sending units are included, except for the fuel sender. The panel even includes high beam and turn signal indicators. The high tech gauges also incorporate auto night dimming and completely black out when the ignition is turned off.
http://store.summitracing.com/
Nordskog To see it with black Bezel click on item.
NRD-DP10002G
http://store.summitracing.com/
Accuracy, reliability, and cool looks in one package.
13.8 in. long, 3.25 in. high, green LEDs, 6 gauge, digital gauge panel
This sophisticated Universal Digital Gauge Panel has Hewlett Packard LED's in super bright green for direct sunlight viewing. Its RISC based microprocessors help provide accurate, and stable readings of vital performance information. This panel includes a self calibrating speedometer with odometer, tachometer, water temperature, volts, oil pressure, and fuel level gauges--and all of the sending units are included, except for the fuel sender. The panel even includes high beam and turn signal indicators. The high tech gauges also incorporate auto night dimming and completely black out when the ignition is turned off.
Also site for shift indicators http://www.rjays.com/Lokar/Lokar-Boots-Indicators.htm#dash-ind
Lokar also has a remote radio controlled relay unit which has its pb control in the center horn ring with up to five remote relays .
I had a little trouble with finding somethings but when I get the link for picture of the remote unit I will attach it.
Sorry for repeats.
Larry |
modelt (208.18.102.15)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 7:07 pm: | |
By the time you see Idiot light the damage is done, just kiss the works, your bucks and dream trip good by (along with your ass when wife is done).
Larry |
modelt (208.18.102.15)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 7:43 pm: | |
http://www.painlessperformance.com/rfcenter.htm
RF Control Products, remote control I mentioned above.
Just picture all the goodies you could control - shifter(electric using screw servo, using one relay to lock out stray signals)and etc.
Larry |
Peter (Sdibaja) (64.165.11.47)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 8:31 pm: | |
All good tips, and excellent resources!
I prefer a combination of idiot lights and gauges… the gauge you can monitor and get a feel for a bad trend, but a light will catch your eye.
Some senders have leads for the existing idiot light and for a gauge; if not, you can use pipe fittings and mage a tee for both... just be careful to not hang a sender way out where it can vibrate and break the fitting…
FWIW
Peter |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (65.194.145.45)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 8:37 pm: | |
REQUIRED GAGES;
1) Oil pressure
2) Water temperature
3) Volts or Amps--either one (volts cheaper)
4) Air pressure
5) Speedometer
6) State of art radar/lazer/ladar detector gage!
OPTIONAL GAGES
1) Tackometer (not really necessary with Allision
or 4 speed trannys)
2) Gas or fuel gage(s)
3) Oil temperature
4) Pyrometer (exhaust gas temperature)
5) Transmission oil temperature gage (Allisions)
6) Ampers
NEAT BUT NOT VITAL GAGES
1) Fuel rail pressure gages (usually Cummins)
2) Fuel pressure gage (Detroits)
3) Air inlet restriction gage (air cleaner gage)
4) Transmission oil temp gages-manual trannnys.
5) Differential (sp?) oil temp gages-one or two
differentials
6) Water and holding tank level gages
7) Generator set fuel gage (if not above)
Sure we have left out some gages that are needed but cannot right now remember them plus weird but neat gages like tire pressure gages, mpg gages and stuff like that. Good luck. Henry |
modelt (208.18.102.15)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 9:13 pm: | |
Pete I kept my idiot lights since they were still in panel.
I guess being a pilot also I really like the gauges, a whole lot of them is never to much for me, a guy thing. Just got to know what's up under there.
Here is one I also included;
http://www.painlessperformance.com/rfcenter.htm
RF Control Products, remote control I mentioned above.
Just picture all the goodies you could control - shifter(electric using screw servo, using one relay to lock out stray signals)and etc.
Glad you liked the links, have fun.
Larry |
Pete RTS/Daytona (68.128.144.32)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 9:23 pm: | |
Here's something I used on my classic GMC M/H -
take a look-->
http://www.california.com/~eagle/chassis.html#digi
when I went to bring my bus home 3000 miles from Calf to Daytona - I ordered onr for the RTS (which only had air / volts ) - no way was I going to take a strange bus across the country without knowing engine temp - oil temp - tranny temp - oil pressure - The Digi-panel for rv/bus comes with 40 + feet of cable - and a screw in oil pressure sender - the unit comes with temperatures probes that you are attached to the engine oil line / tranny fluid line & the thermostat housings - It also has an alarm feature --
The alarm feature is my "marriage saver" - The wife is a retired professional driver (FedX) and you don't tell her (the professional) -- please watch the guages a little more or anthing else about her driving (the professional) - with the digi-panel I actually go sleep on the couch when she's driving - knowing that at the first hint of something wrong the alarm will sound -
I have absolutely no vested interest in Digi-Panel - I just own and use them
Pete RTS/Daytona |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (65.194.145.45)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, January 27, 2003 - 9:55 pm: | |
Oh gosh....I do hate getting younger every day! He he he! Forgot to include the turbocharger boost gage which this person would consider optional, but not essential for a coach application.
But might be neat if your mill is REALLY pumped and you need to watch the boost, pyro, fuel pressure and temp gage(s) blowing up those 6% grades with your 750 Cummins.
My Crown 10 wheeler ex schoolie only has the basic gages plus a tack. 10 speed Roadranger. I agree with FF; if you do not need them, why have them? The whole idea with this coach stuff is to have fun.
I would consider having LESS gages as having more fun as I would not have to look all the time at all of those trick, optional gages. Nothing wrong with broom stick handles/and or guessamates! He he he. Thanks. Henry of CJ ('74 Crown Super Coach) |
FAST FRED (209.26.115.212)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 5:36 am: | |
For the "Belt & Suspenders crowd check out the MURPHY series of gages.
They are custom made , all mechanical , so are accurate even 50 ft from the engine , and will still work in a NO electric situation.
Big pain to install BUT,
You can order them with one or two adjustable alarm settings.
Under or over temp , pressure ect can be rigged to have an alarm operate OR secure the engine.
Have used them in marine apps and the wait is short and the gages great.
On a boat many times we are sitting in the bow cockpit , with only the autopilot controll to steer with & only MURPHY watching the gages.
Works great! Depending on how "close" you wish to set the alarm trigger detirmines the bell , or if enabled auto shutdown.
There are even versions of controll set ups that give 2 or 3 min of alarm , before shutdown , so you can get out of the road.
Might be worth a look,for your gen set , if not the main engine.
FAST FRED |
Craig S (65.202.123.254)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 8:09 am: | |
A couple of thoughts. I have air gauges on the dash. But it was the air idiot light that got my attention when the compressor quit. At 60 PSI, I had just a little bit of time to pull over before it locked the brakes. The pyrometer is used to measure the exhaust gas temperature which can indicate that there is too much fuel being used for the horsepower being developed. The heat in the cylinders will eventually make it through the block and show on the water gauge but not fast enough to save melting a piston.
Craig S |
CoryDaneRTSIIIL (4.17.253.107)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 11:22 am: | |
.
OK so then the MUST list is Speedo, Air PSI, Volts(12 & 24), these are all standard, then comes a Pyrometer???? I assume a TACH might be considered a MUST HAVE TOO??
Then is Water temp, Oil PSI and Fuel PSI considered as " like to have but not earthshaking"??
thanks cd |
FAST FRED (209.26.115.221)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 3:34 pm: | |
For a coach with the stock injectors , there is not much use for a pyrometer, as unless you try to climb hills at fast idle RPM , the setup was designed to be "bullitproof".
If you have thoise N90's in a stock timed engine , bucky balls & overheat is very probable.
With thousands of coaches racking up millions of miles with VERY minumal instrumentation ,
I'm not sure the instrumentation of the universal joint, inner seals , is going to make life better.
FAST FRED |
Johnny (67.241.224.246)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 6:52 pm: | |
My skoolie (gas engine) will have, when completed:
Speedo*
Tach* (I have a Spicer 5+2)
Oil pressure
Water temp*
Voltmeter*
Fuel level*
Oil temp
Air pressure (I'm adding rear air bags, & will be able to run air tools)
Holding tank gauges (not on the dash)
Listings with a * were there from the factory. Oil pressure just has an idiot light (which I'll keep), but I plan to add a gauge. I'm not a huge fan of digital gauge panels--they just look wrong in an older vehicle. Also, analog, mechanical gauges are bulletproof, though running them in a pusher might take some ingenuity.
With a slushpump transmission, I'd add trans temp. With a diesel, I'd add a pyrometer (my F-350 has one) and probably a boost gauge if turbocharged.
"Fun" for me is knowing EXACTLY what is going on inside my engine & vehicle at all times. |
CoryDane RTSII IL (198.29.191.148)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 9:01 am: | |
So Do we agree that the list that Henry R Bergman made of "REQUIRED" guages is correct? I agree with the "State of art radar/lazer/ladar detector gage!"
FF said something about factory coaches being bullet proof, is that to say that the standard factory guages will suffice?
I guess I am gettng confused, soemwhere I read that the Pyrometer responds faster thus being better than a Water Temp Meter. I get from FF's note that temp is not a concern?
Well, if I do nothing, I have the factory guage install. I can add a guage or two or three so I thought I would ask the ones in the know but it seems to be getting more confusing.
Can this be cleared up or is the factory setup good enough? cd |
modelt (208.18.102.12)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 9:21 am: | |
FF comment I believe was "there is not much use for a pyrometer, as unless you try to climb hills at fast idle RPM ".
They knew what they were doing when they built these units and if we drive them as intended we would not need all this extra instrumention. However city units did not need speedometer or fuel guage, now we drive them on cross country trips, which changes the entire picture.Like pulling heavy loads up & down mountains etc.
If you know how to drive them properly other than air presure gauge,you don't need any more than I had indicated in the post above.
This is my opinion and we all have them. |
FAST FRED (209.26.115.228)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 5:49 am: | |
"FF said something about factory coaches being bullet proof, is that to say that the standard factory guages will suffice? "
Usually just fine.
"I guess I am gettng confused, soemwhere I read that the Pyrometer responds faster thus being better than a Water Temp Meter. I get from FF's note that temp is not a concern? "
The factory set up the coaches so even the driver that was maddest at the company had a hard time destroying the coach.
With the STOCK coach injectors the pyromometer is fun , but not of great value (although cheap enough if your a Gadget person).
With huge Hot Rod defuler injectors the pyrometer could help your right foot from overfueling & overheating the engine.
Your Way?
FAST FRED |
Quest (198.29.191.147)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 8:03 am: | |
How about the other part of Corys' question, how about the cruise control. I have heard about Steve Sanfords solution to his cruise control, anyone aware of this or know where to get one????
quest |
Craig S (65.202.123.254)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 10:49 am: | |
Hi Quest,
Look here for the cruise control http://www.gowheels.com/cruise/
Craig S |
Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (65.194.145.58)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 7:43 pm: | |
For a cheap but possibly workable cruise control, just pull out the hand throttle. Works fine on the flats. He he he. Henry |
modelt (208.18.102.3)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 8:08 pm: | |
I might be wrong here - but if it works (cruise control) like most I've seen, going up a steep grade (mountain, hill) it well just keep adding throttle to try and compensate for the slow down, now that would sure wash those old cylinder walls down nicely.
Henry's idea is about as close as I would want to get to cruise control.
Larry |
Tom Caffrey (Pvcces) (64.114.233.178)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 10:36 pm: | |
For the type of governor on the DD used in the GMs, a hand throttle would not work very well. There are governors used on these engines that could do the job, but then they wouldn't be a very good bus governor.
This is what you run into, compromises that can seem to work, but might be a real bad idea.
Cummins PT fuel system would not work very well on a hand throttle without some add-on equipment, either.
Food for thought.
Tom Caffrey PD4106-2576
Suncatcher |
FAST FRED (209.26.115.24)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 6:00 am: | |
Gear the coach to run between 70 & 75 and your heal on the throttle is all the cruise controll needed.
In small money hungry towns there is far too many speed changes to mess with a cruise controll.
Your out of state coach has a huge BULLSEYE painted on it that signals the local police that a HIGH $$$$$ ticket can be written with no calls from voters to the elected top cop.
5 MPH below the posted limits really hacks off the locals and is my favorite speed in 25 or 30 mph zone.
FAST FRED |
CoryDaneRTSIIIL (4.17.253.222)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 7:54 pm: | |
Hey FF, is the "BullsEye" on the side of our "out of state" coach there because they ASSUME that a coach of such size and costs means (to them) that the owners are filthy with money??? What a shocker for me, I cant find all that extra cash... I already met a couple towns that like to find "out of state" plates, puts another NOTCH in their gun belts.
BY the way, thanks to all of you for your suggestions. Though I never found the digital guages on those address, thanks for that thought. I think if I have the space, will have the SPEEDO, AIR PSI, VOLT 12 and 24, (these are all standard) then shall add TACHOMETER, the Pyromenter, Oil PSI, Water Temp and a fuel guage. I think that should cover most of the needs and if this coach has been as "bullit proof" as FF says, I should have little need for them but can monitor anyway.
The Cruise control is considered for flat running, not the hills. just don't wanna keep controlling the throttle for 2000 plus miles if I don't have to.
Thanks for all the info and help. I appreciate everything you have done for me and hopefully I have and can be of help again in the future. cd |
Richard Bowyer (Drivingmisslazy) (66.190.119.82)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 9:59 pm: | |
Cory, I use my cruise control from coast to coast, up hill and down as long as I can maintain about 35 mph. Never any problems and never any black smoke to indicate that I am over fueling.
Richard |