| Author | Message | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 438 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.5.73 Rating: N/A |
What is the oil capacity of the rear axle from empty? | ||
| John & Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 335 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.183.21.246  Rating: N/A |
Jim, If it's the same as my 4107 the book says 22 pints to drain and refill. Good luck, John | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 439 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.5.73 Rating: N/A |
Thanks. That's less than I thought it would be. 2.75 gal. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1836 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
My 4104 manual says "approx. 18 pints" of 140 weight unless operated in temps of 20 degrees or colder" | ||
| Patrick levenson (Zubzub)
Registered Member Username: Zubzub Post Number: 143 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.51.29.70  Rating: N/A |
140 W ? Really, I thought it was 80/90 Hypoid . | ||
| Frank Radosti (Frank4104)
Registered Member Username: Frank4104 Post Number: 47 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 209.236.250.213  Rating: N/A |
Why would any one need to drain it and refil ? | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1074 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.25.47  Rating: N/A |
Jim, You need to be careful here. Some of those old rear ends don't use Extreme Pressure oil like newer ones. I have a couple of old trucks that require the 140W non-XP. You should not put XP oil in them. If it weren't so cold I would go out to the bus and get my manual to find out for sure. You don't need to worry about the exact amount anyway, just fill it till it runs out the hole as per the manual. This is true for all differentials I know about and I own about ten heavy antique trucks. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1837 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157 Rating: N/A |
After filling, check the next day, as some of the fluid will migrate out the axle tubes and lower the level. | ||
| Patrick levenson (Zubzub)
Registered Member Username: Zubzub Post Number: 144 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 70.51.29.70 Rating: N/A |
Hey Gus when you get a chance could you let me know on the rear, I need to flush it this spring, I topped it up with hypoid 80/90 when I got the bus, but as it is quite black I had planned on changing it, My pdf manual does not specify the lube very clearly | ||
| Tom Connolly (Tomconnolly)
Registered Member Username: Tomconnolly Post Number: 55 Registered: 9-2003 Posted From: 96.252.201.44 Rating: N/A |
Per the GM Coach 4104 Maintenance Manual, Sec 13, Pg 211. Use MP-- S.A.E. 140 year round, except in extremely low temperatures where vehicle is parked below +20 deg F or operated consistently below 0 deg F. Then use S.A.E. 90. (aprox 18 pints to fill, if you are not running outer bearings in oil) Tom C | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1075 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.49.38 Rating: N/A |
ZZ, I think Tom answered your question but I don't remember if it requires Extreme Pressure type (I called it XP, I meant EP). I'll check it tomorrow, it is pouring rain right now and my manual is in the bus. I just today added an AC outlet in my water tank compartment so I can run a small electric heater there during cold weather. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1076 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.9.62 Rating: N/A |
ZZ, The 4104 manual says Muti-purpose MilSpec Mil-L-2105 140W. It is not clear to me if this is EP (GL5) so I went on the net? I found this; "Here's how the API defines GL-4: The designation API GL-4 denotes lubricants intended for axles with spiral bevel gears operating under moderate to severe conditions of speed and load or axles with hypoid (see note) gears operating under moderate speeds and loads. These oils may be used in selected manual transmission and transaxle applications where MT-1 lubricants are unsuitable. The manufacturer's specific lubricant quality recommendations should be followed. Although this service designation is still used commercially to describe lubricants, some test equipment used for performance verification is no longer available. Procedures to define this performance are currently being reviewed for adoption by ASTM." It is still not completely clear to me if this is EP but I think it is. The reason I'm confused is that the manual explains that oil used in the steering column housing and steering gear housing should be EP (GL5). However, there is no mention of EP in the differential section. This is all in Section 13 Lubrication, pg 211. If you don't have this manual you should. All this leads to what I use and I can't remember for sure. I think it is GL5 85W-140 but I will find out for sure tomorrow. I went through this a couple of years ago but don't remember what I decided. When I look at the bucket of oil I use I will know. I have a permanently attached pump on the bucket. As I remember my 5 ton '60 White dump truck uses the same thing. What I use, however, does not mean it is the final word by any means!! | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1077 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.9.62 Rating: N/A |
I've done a bit more research and find that EP (GL5) has a high percentage of additives (Sulfides) compared to GL4. In some older vehicles these additives can harm copper alloyed bearings. Evidently EP oil is only necessary for hypoid diffs which we don't have. It has nothing to do with diff size and all to do with where the pinion gear contacts the ring gear. Hypoid pinions enter the diff at the bottom of the case whereas our spiral bevel pinions enter at the center or close to center. Hypoid diffs are used in rear drive cars to allow low floors without humps but they are less efficient. So, this all says to me that GL4 is probably better for our diffs. The problem is that GL4 is hard to find and GL5 is everywhere. And, I prefer multi-grade if available, which it usually is. It is simply better than single grade which was probably not available when our buses were built. The bottom line is that GL5 is probably OK, but this is not certain. I'll use GL4 in mine if I can find it and GL5 if I can't. | ||
| Nellie Wilson (Vivianellie)
Registered Member Username: Vivianellie Post Number: 432 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 74.4.63.215  Rating: N/A |
All of which makes me wonder... did I use the right stuff in my '77 MC-5C (Rockwell diff.)? As I recall, it was 85-90W... but EP or not, can't exactly recall. Nellie Wilson | ||
| ED Hackenbruch (Shadowman)
Registered Member Username: Shadowman Post Number: 235 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 75.208.251.234 Rating: N/A |
Depends on where you were when you did it. The book for my 5A says General Purpose gear lubricant-SAE 140. For temps down to 0 degrees F. And SAE 90 for temps below 0 degrees F. | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 440 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.5.73 Rating: N/A |
Thanks everyone, for all the info. Especially you, Gus. As to why I would drain it: I am getting ready to change the "chunk" or third member and axles, and so I'm figuring out how much to buy. 18 or 22 pts, still 3 gal. I guess. Good thing I asked, I know mine is filled with 90 wt now and I would have used that again without this thread. Gus, if I understand your info, GL-4 85-140 would be my best choice. I look forward to your post after you check the pail you use. | ||
| David Evans (Dmd)
Registered Member Username: Dmd Post Number: 419 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 173.68.141.245  Rating: N/A |
Hey Jim, are you gonna install the "dumpster differential"? Changing gearing? Hope all is well, dave and dinah | ||
| Jim Wilke (Jim Bob) (Pd41044039)
Registered Member Username: Pd41044039 Post Number: 441 Registered: 2-2001 Posted From: 184.0.5.73 Rating: |
Dave: No, I bought another center section from Robert that is as tight as a new one and is the 4:10:1 I need to crawl up the hill here. The axle you're thinking of is for my trans & rear swap project. The main thing I wanted was the outer housing to flip & move the mounts so the actual change out goes quickly. That project is kinda low on the list but I like to aquire the pieces as I find them. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1079 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.14.198 Rating: N/A |
Nellie, You need to check your manual to find out if it mentions EP. My guess is that since your bus is a '77 it probably calls for EP (GL5), but don't take my word for it. My bus is 23 yrs older than yours so that may make a big difference. As for the difference between single and multi-viscosity oil, I'll take the MV every time because I drive in really different climates. I can't think of any reason not to use MV? Jim, I didn't check my bucket. After doing all this research, no matter what it is, I'm going to use GL4 if possible. My guess is that GL4 is not available. I also think that using GL5 will not cause any serious problems because the oil companies are now selling some classified as GL4/GL5 so they are certainly aware of the copper problem. In my case I've only topped off the dif, not completely filled it. It never hurts to flush an old dif. I flushed out the one on my '31 Chevy 1.5ton and it was almost tar at the bottom. I had to use solvent under pressure. Of course it probably had never been flushed in 76yrs either! |
