| Author | Message | ||
| jared (209.237.13.146) Rating: N/A |
Hello again folks: I just finished reading Larry's book "Beginner's Guide to Converted Coaches", after trying to decide between and MCI or RTS platform for my conversion. Larry makes one very salient point regarding the popularity of the MCI and the subsequent easy availability of the MCI parts. My concern is that Larry never refers to any RTS buses in his book, so I am not sure if this easy parts availability applies to the RTS buses or not. Please advise, ohhh ones of greater experience than I. Larry also makes blanket statements about Intercity buses vs. Transit buses. He claims that the Intercity buses are better built and have better insulation than the Transit city counterparts. Is this true of the RTS, or is the RTS simply built better than the average transit bus? thanks once again everyone. Jared P.S. Thanks to RJlong, Geoff, and John Biundo for their personal help in my diffult conversion decision. | ||
| Doug (12.90.23.212) Rating: N/A |
HI jared. the RTS is a well built transit coach but In my opinion not quite as well built as a highway coach. there is less insulation on the bright side.....these things are going to scrap yards already...so parts abound | ||
| Henry R. Bergman, Jr. (Henryofcj) (65.194.145.44)
Rating: N/A |
Maybe we are comparing apples to oranges. Both delicious, but somewhat different to the individual. An example. If you put an over-the-road Grayhound type coach in intercity transit service, how long would the various components last? Particularily clutches, brakes and trannies? Might this suggest that a transit bus would do well in over-the road service? The answer to both questions may surprise you. The point is that BOTH were designed for a particular application. RTD coaches may now be on the verge of being "discovered". As FF has already explained, with the huge brakes, tight turning circle, etc., ... ....An RTD coach may make a great RV with adequate road gearing and a JAKE BRAKE!!! Kinda like certain types of ex-schoolies that with.... ....a little work can make great ultimate motorhomes. Even though someone has published a book on the subject, does not make him/her the ultimate authority. Good luck. Henry of CJ | ||
| Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.123.107)
Rating: N/A |
I have Larry Plachno's book and the information you are quoting comes from page 19. And was published in 1991 before RTS's were being converted. I also subscribe to National Bus Trader (his magazine) and he now acknowledges the RTS as a popular conversion shell (although he has been known to bad mouth home conversions in general). I think Larry's book is good for people interested in bus conversions, but if you want real information on converting a bus you need to get Dave Galey's "Bus Converter's Bible" and George Myers "Designing Electrical Systems for Coach Conversions" to name my two favorites. As far as structure goes, the RTS with it's modular construction is certainly better built than a bus with bird cage framing that uses the skin and the floor as part of its strength. The RTS has proven to be the most popular transit bus ever built as over 20,000 of them have hit the streets since 1977. So parts, new or used, are never a problem to find. Insulation is average on the RTS-- for a conversion you need to add more just as you would on an intercity shell. --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.123.107)
Rating: N/A |
Henry-- you bring up some good points and a couple of questions that I can answer since I have an RTS. First of all, the RTS handles beautifully on the freeway. Mine went 70 mph when I first got it and now can do almost 80 after I changed the rear end to a 4:10. It does not get blown around in the wind and takes turns at freeway speeds without leaning (that's why a lot of people call it [The New] "Sport Car of Buses" (after the 4106). Sheppard steering, automatic transmission, huge brakes and a tight turning radius make the bus a joy to drive-- either in town or on the freeway. --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| jared (209.237.13.146) Rating: N/A |
Thanks all, and Geoff in particular. I must admit that I was disappointed with the lack of detail in Larry's book. For a "Bible" it was very "hole-y". The entire book would make a good chapter 1 in a serious book on conversions. I will have to read Dave Galey's book. Also Geoff, did you have to replace an inordinate number of components due to the many hard miles of tough city driving, or did you find the RTS to hold up well after all the abuse? Are there any overheating issues or other problems symptomatic to the RTS? -jared | ||
| John Biundo (Jbiundo) (64.175.39.169)
Rating: N/A |
Jared, You can take a look at Galey's book(s) at my house before you decide to buy 'em. I guess I've gotten some good info out of them, but honestly, it pales compared to the info you'll get from 6 months on this (and a couple other) boards, plus trolling the archives. The electrical books ARE pretty good, IMHO (Myers' book, the Ample Power folks books, and a couple others). Again, take a look at my library tomorrow. john | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.115.27) Rating: N/A |
Larry's book "Beginner's Guide to Converted Coaches", does not discuss the RTS as its not considered a coach. Same with Skoolies , can be a great RV , but hardly a coach. There ARE books for converting Skoolies & transits that cover the methods for creating a great RV. FAST FRED | ||
| Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.95)
Rating: N/A |
Begining with the front page of the RTS maintenance manual, General Motors calls the RTS a coach, and lists "coach models". Maybe you better correct them, Fred. What irks me is the RV crowd who call their sticks and staples motorhomes "coaches". This is truly blaspheme. A coach is a bus, or a long vehicle designed to carry passengers. A converted bus is no longer a "coach", so how do these folks consider an RV a "coach"? --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| Don KS/TX (205.187.92.166)
Rating: N/A |
Interesting how we sometimes make up our own definitions in the english language. The dictionary definition for coach seems to be: Coach: Main Entry: motor bus Function: noun Date: 1901 : BUS 1a -- called also motor coach Looks like a skoolie or RTS would fully qualify. | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.115.214) Rating: N/A |
They buy a decal that sez Allegro Bus , or something as stoopid and glue it on, DONE. The word Coach is as misabused as "HI FI " was when manufacturers called anything with 2 speakers HI FI. Beauty as well as utility is in the mind of the beholder. FAST FRED | ||
| Frank Allen (152.163.188.227) Rating: N/A |
Is this Larry placno the same one that says the 4104 and 06 is too old to covert??? i think he comes from a lot richer bunch than me, anyway i didnt know i wasnt suppose to convert a 06 and i been running it since 87 and i enjoyed it greatly . what is he thinking?? i got the impression if you dont have 300k dollars to spend you dont need to be doing this thing. i look for help with what im trying to do , i dcould care less what he thinks of my 06 . there are better books out there to read, my opinion Frank Allen | ||
| modelt (208.18.102.227) Rating: N/A |
Frank same feelings. Here is my opinion on the whole thing; I don't Know a great deal about RTS, but talking with and reading material from many who have converted and love these sleek looking units,I always call all converted bus - units, because those not Bus Nuts look at us when we say we live in bus, we are someone destitute living in a junk yard (my opinion). I had considered one when I bought my first, but the space did not meet my needs (storage) I had a 1980 Flex a Collins sold then for same reason. Ended up with a 4106. I would agree with most all posts in this topic. Geoff seems to know a lot about them and can give you the info you need, to see if it meets your personnel needs. In my opinion it is much better than any sticks and staples you will find. I looked at the sticks and staples in the 100k up range and friends that have them and all there leaky ass problems. Nothing compares to a real coach. I have more in the 4106 than I could had purchased a sticks and staples for but am much happier with the 4106. I owned a old Dodge 74 Trojin and a 92 Fleetwood and was never happy (still can't get my money out of the Fleetwood, which is half of what we paid for it) now that is not the case with a (bus) real unit. Actually like the old Dodge better. These are all my opinions & maybe your writer has never really looked at the RTS. Sure don't mean to offend anyone who has a sticks and staples, this is just my personnel experience and opinion and I have been there. Larry | ||
| Scott Whitney (66.82.9.35) Rating: N/A |
Keep in mind a coach use to mean a wooden thing on wooden wheels pulled by a horse. . . So it is a pretty broad term. Around here in OK, it doesn't matter whether you are talking about a double-wide mobile home, a 5th wheeler, a stick and staple RV, a rainbow colored hippie bus, or a bus conversion - they are all called "trailers". That bugs me, but I am getting used to it. Sometimes I start with saying "a bus conversion" and depending on the person's reaction, I'll clarify with, "like a converted Greyhound coach". (even though mine is a transit, I don't go into details) So while the stick and staple crowd calling their flimsy boxes coaches kind of bugs me too, I guess we can't really claim rights to the word "coach". Having said that, I'd certainly call the RTS a coach. Sometimes I call my Flxible transit a coach depending on the level of understanding of the person I am talking to. The only factory RV I'd call a coach would be a Bluebird or maybe a Newell or some other truely coach-like built RVs (there arn't many). I'd call Crown School bus a coach too. But I would not call anything made of wood or fiberglass on top of a ladder frame a coach, no matter how big and fancy it looks on the outside. Just my idea of the terminology. Scott | ||
| Phil (204.89.170.126) Rating: N/A |
Perhaps you need to look at some of the quality factory diesel pusher units around. The "stick and staples" label does not fit many of them. I happen to own a Monaco at this time. Monaco uses their own chassis which is excellent handling. Many of their models use "semi-monocoque" construction similer to many buses with the truss type framework inside the walls. Mine has a ladder frame with a substantial aluminum framework for the body. There are some (a majority??) real pieces of crap out there that are sold for a lot of money. Larry mentions Fleetwod problems. Fleetwood is the largest manufacturer of recreational vehicles and in my opinion one of the worst. Got rid of a Fleetwood Southwind to get my Monaco. Best thing I ever did!!!! I watch this board as there is a lot of useful information here even for an owner of a manufactured unit. I can admire the effort that goes into a conversion. I have friend with great conversions and have considered doing one but could not come up with the time as I already have two homebuilt airplane projects. Some of the comments come through as elitest and remind me of the attitudes of some motorcycle owners about the "other brands". As a motorcyclist and recreational vehicle owner I welcome ALL other people involved in these "hobbies". At Bike Week in Daytona next month I will be parked at the Speedway with hundreds of other RVs and look forward to meeting as many of the other owners as I can, regardless of what they operate (RV or motorcycle.) The same will hold true at the Sun-N-Fun and Oshkosh airshows later in the year. BTW I do refer to my RV as a "coach". Sorry for the longwinded note. Phil | ||
| Michael J (Mjryan) (67.41.234.182)
Rating: N/A |
Bravo Phil You are right. I think we all (Bus Nuts) need to get off our high horse and try to understand we all have a choice in life, who are we to criticize others in there judgments? I think we have enough problems in this old world as it is. Michael j | ||
| modelt (208.18.102.227) Rating: N/A |
As I said I sure don't want to offend anyone, just have my opinion based on my experience with them and trying to resale. The Fleetwood Storm which in my opinion is a piece of junk. When talking to others I keep my opinion to myself because they are proud of theirs and I do enjoy what we do have incommon. I have seen many high class units but way above my care to pay price range. The Monaco is a beauty but over what I will pay. My opinion, which everyone has as to selection or what they want is theirs. I know that many would have had a conversion but are busy with life's work and just don't have the time and many just don't care to do that much, really hard work, or they just don't want or like the bus idea. Its sure not for everyone. The reason I had purchased my first units, as factory complete, was the damn business interfered with what I really wanted to do, haha. | ||
| modelt (208.18.102.227) Rating: N/A |
I had forgot to leave my opinion on this in my last post. I was once reminded on this site, that they had asked for opinions. High horse - no, criticize others in there judgments - no, just opinion. | ||
| Phil (24.195.248.213) Rating: N/A |
Larry, You are right, opinions are great. Hope I didn't sound like they were a problem. Lord knows I have some pretty strong ones of my own! By the way, my Monaco is actually an entry level diesel (Knight). It is a 2000 that I purchased used, 9 months old, so someone else took the first depreciation hit. Actual money I have about $90,000 in it. A lot more than I ever thought I would put into a portable house!!!! In looking at converting a bus I felt I would put at least that into it for what I wanted. There are definatly some short comings in the RV compared to a bus but that works in both directions. As a fellow pilot, I would enjoy an off board communication about other non bus/coach/RV topics. If you would like, feel free to contact me by e-mail: prisley(at)nycap.rr.com Obviously substitute @ for the (at). Phil | ||
| modelt (208.18.102.208) Rating: N/A |
Phil, By no means did I think you were giving anything more than your opinion. More like I was coming in wrong. You were I thought just agree'g with me about that *#*&&*$% Fleetwood that I was complaining about and I can't get rid of. If when I bought that thing I could have found a Monaco I would have prob stayed with it. Didn't have the time to shop when I purchased it, 89K by the way. Backed into a low tree limb and cracked it like an egg and I don't mean the 1 1/2 inch tree limb. Heading to Fla in morning (weather permitting). When I return I will get in touch with you, thanks for the invite. I prob will be making more noise from Fla before I get back. I love this site and you sure meet some interesting folks here, with a lot of good info. Keep the houses looking small!! Later Larry | ||
| R.C.Bishop (128.123.221.203)
Rating: N/A |
Scott.....thanx for the specific reference to to the Crown, which FYI was manufactured by "Crown Coach Corporation, Los Angeles" according to the name plates... Mine happens to be a Highway Coach.  RCB | ||
| CoryDaneRTSIIIL (4.17.253.129) Rating: N/A |
This has turned into a very interesting string. I read some of the books the "how to..." books made up by people who deemed themselves an authority of "SOME PART" of a conversion. One must remember that these books are opinions in most cases. I do get really nervous when these authorities make a book and then suffer a horrible set back on their own bus. We all need help and all have opinions and mine is to use the books as an idea to help get your conversion underway. I would certainly get a second opinion, it can only help you. I have the RTSII and for how well it is built, come around when I am trying to make a modification, the area us usually "flowered" with colorful language as this stainless steel is very tough stuff. I also have a friend that has a GMC 4909 (I think) and that unit is built too. Both units are built for the environment that they will experience in their operational lifetime. There are buses I don't like, but from what I have seen, they have all been well built for their operation purpose. We, as converters, basically are trying to "save a buck" or just to get our foot into the door of the hobby so the retired buses become a popular item for resale and converters have a pleathura of choices to make, depending on their liking. It will ultimately boil down to what you plan to do with the bus or how it will be used with your family. (I have an incredible difficult time understanding those who buy the bus, do a fast conversion then sell it for profit, with no idea how its eventual travels will become.) Full time needs space for storage, at least some where if you go out once a month for a week long trip, storage is not as critical. RTS have 6'6 ceiling height, could be fine for all uses, some buses need the ceiling raised, big bucks and needs to be a serious consideration before bus purchase. OK, RTS has wheel wells to design over, is that so tough? I did'nt find it so difficult though it did mean playing with the layout for a longer period of time. I like all buses, well, except for one particular one whos middle name should be RUSTY. I may lean toward the RTSII since I have one, I enjoy most of them, still like the look of the PREVOST, most GMC, MCI, MAN, oh so much candy, so little time. I think a search of some sites, and RTS sites are becoming more prevelant these days, to see what you like and dislike about the bus you are interested in can be quite gratifying. AND of course, you can ask on the board, at least one person has been where you are and will be happy to give their opinions to help you along. This is such a great hobby, expensive, but great. Best of luck to you newbies, BusNutItis is a heck of a desease, and no medication will rid you of it. Aint it great!!! cd | ||
| Jeff (Jeff) (68.10.101.219)
Rating: N/A |
I did a lot of looking around before I chose my bus. I first wanted a Skoolie. East coast Skoolies are Blue Birds, Thomas buses. Then I found out about the Crown SuperCoach Skoolies. Like the shape of them. Liked the idea they had components that over the road trucks had. Only draw back was the interior height. I did not want a bus I would have to do a roof raise. I'm 6'2" the legal limit for stacking manure here in my hometown. In the Diesel Chat Room one night, I met a RTS owner. I learned of the +/- of the RTS. I learned the MCI & especially the Eagle HAD to have a roof raise for my use. Some people condemn the RTS, some dislike MCI others Eagles and GMC. I feel you should do your research. Go and look at different buses. Go to RV shows and see what interior set ups you like. Take pictures. Can you copy those ideas in a coach (Bus Conversion) of your liking. Sit down in the different buses and imagine what the interior could be. Will the 'basement' allow you to do the interior you want? I've driven fire trucks for several years. Never drove anything bigger than my pick up truck with a travel trailer (camper) any real distance. Then two members of the RTS Bus-Nuts Group found me my bus. (Geoff & Nick) I got a quick class on driving the RTS and off I went. Geoff said how well the RTS hugged the road. He is telling the truth! I took a few cloverleaf and turns down the mountains a little faster than I should have. I could not tell if the RTS had a problem with them because it rode like it was on rails with NO LEAN!!! I drove the RTS from Oakland, California area to Hampton Roads, Virginia. I 80 to I 29 to I 70 to I 64. Had to take a few city and county roads once I got with in 50 miles of home. That bus loved those roads too. I'll have to change the rear gear to the same Geoff has, someday. I've been camping for years. Tent to Pop Up to Travel Trailer pulled by a Ford F-150 with a 300 CID/6 cylinder. It is more important for me to see the country rather than busting my butt trying to get there. Keeping under 80 mph is no problem for me. Any bus is a lot of bus when you have to stop. People here will praise the RTS, others will condemn it. They are just giving their opinions. Then again people will be prejudice when they have No Education to base their opinion on. They just Parrot Phrasing. Pete & repeat. Some people are Catholic, some are Baptist, or Methodist while others are Church of Christ, can you tell me that any of them are wrong? We are all bus converters just a little different path to get to the same pleasure. Jeff "Take Another Road" <-- Jimmy Buffett Rustless not Busless in Buckroe 1988 TMC RTS-06 da Bubba | ||
| Quest (198.29.191.147) Rating: N/A |
Good comments Jeff. I also chose the RTSII, Compared to those big parlor buses, its a SPORTSCAR. Talk about going to the shows, while I was in the drawing mode for the interior, I went to RV sales, I went to RV shows and even went to BOAT shows. I brought the movie cam and the 35mm. I studied floorplans what seems forever and after balancing things out, and after a year or two of changing my mind, finally came up with an RTSII layout that I can appreciate. I think back now and wonder where I found all the energy to go to all those shows and find (steal) ideas for my particular purpose. the floor plan is probably the most important, and most difficult decision, short of buying a bus, that a converter will ever make, then come WHICH bus I want, which will entail HOW WILL I USE IT, in campgrounds only or booning, full time or part time. then comes electrical, plumbing, oh etc etc etc.(hair sticking up, arms flying in the air and eyes rolling around). As said above you got to do your research. I will tell you the RTSII is a great coach, and it is for my reasons and needs, but others will tell you they like their type of bus, for their reasons and needs. You need to find your reasons and needs, then you can pick a bus. good luck q | ||
| Wulf P. Ward (63.155.8.38)
Rating: N/A |
Somebody says RTS and really starts things going. I have great respect of Larry. He knows more about buses then anybody I have ever ran agross. This whole bus thing reminds me of when I go to Germany and some of my old friends, that never left their home state, will tell me all about what's wrong over here in the USA. Larry did see my RTS about 5 years ago, when it was about 90% finished and he said back then, that the RTS was the only transit he would endorce. It always makes me a little upset, when I hear someone talk about the RTS, Eagles or some of the other buses that I had a change to know better. Many "talkers" never seen an RTS or an Eagle, let alone had a chance to drive one. The best case in point is the Eagle, with all the negative hear-say it gets. And compairing the bus-conversions to the "Stick and Stables" motor homes is also not fair. If you compair a 1979 $100,000.00 bus conversion to a $100,000.00 older motor home, you looking at (maybe)a 1989 40' Bluebird with a 8V92 and a 740 Allison with under 100,000 total coach miles or a 40' Country Coach on a Gillig drive train and many other high end motor homes, that sure are not "Stick and Stable". And how about these lowly "Schoolies", look what Bluebird did with their "Schoolie". Most motor homes in the $ 300,000.00 range may have a C12 Cat or N14 Cummins, all over 500 HP. They will have at least 3 slide-out and will compair well to a older bus conversion in the same price range. |