| Author | Message | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 174.48.3.218  Rating: N/A |
today I went to start the 4107 to take her to it's new home and it cranks but no start, My first instinct was to check the ignition, but then I remembered OH DIESEL, this is my first bus/diesel experience after all. what is the correct prime procedure for this. I see fittings ports on both the feed and return fuel hoses next to the filters. thanks in advance. PS I read this board almost daily and I cant wait to get Phoenix to a local event to further the madness and meet some you guys and gals, good people. | ||
| Don Evans (Doninwa)
Registered Member Username: Doninwa Post Number: 251 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 208.81.157.234  Rating: |
Was there any smoke out the exhaust when you were cranking it? How warm is it were the bus is? No smoke means no fuel. Blue smoke means fuel but not enough or too cold or cranking too slow to start. If it is smoking plug in the block heater for a hour or two. Even if it is warm, heating it will help starting. First are you sure it is not out of fuel? Someone may have helped them selves to it. But it still should have started until it sucked air into the lines. If it has lost prime there are several ways to reprime it. Carefully fill the filters with fuel and crank. Use an external pump like a garden sprayer filled with diesel to prime through the primary filter port. Install an inline priming pump. My '07 has the inline pump. Very handy for priming or changing filters. Good luck Don 4107 PS There are other reasons for no start such as shut down cylinder stuck in no fuel position. If you had air up and the rear switch is not in the run position. (Message edited by Doninwa on February 10, 2010) | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1218 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 74.4.63.215  Rating: N/A |
Cranking Speed? A diesel has to spin fast to develop enough compression to ignite the fuel. Make sure batteries are fully charged and all connections are clean. As was mentioned, anytime you are cranking, watch the exhaust to see if you are getting fuel. If you see no smoke, you have a fuel issue. If you see smoke, it may something other than a fuel issue. Did you check the emergency shut down flapper in the air intake on top of the blower? Jack | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 203 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 99.23.150.99 Rating: N/A |
Hey Don I have had the plunger on the shut off cylinder stick keeping the bus from starting, couple times. It was gumming up. It had a slight air leak and I replaced the seal but I am afraid the housing on ours may have been distorted from prior frozen moisture, many other components were. The new seals dont last too long and the air leak returns (very vert slight but leaking none the less) We have 2 of these clyinders one for high idle one for the shut-off. The seals are a couple bucks the entire part is 75. How old are the filters how old is the fuel how much fuel is there? The smoke or lack there of while cranking will lead you on. | ||
| Rob Allen (Rob_allen)
Registered Member Username: Rob_allen Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2009 Posted From: 194.69.148.1  Rating: N/A |
George, After replacing fuel lines on a MC5a with a DD8V71 we used a drill pump you can find at most hardware stores to make a temporary inline pump to reprime the main lines. We had quite the fuel leak though and also had to open the valve covers and loosen the injector lines to bleed the air out of them. If you have to do this be careful to collect the bleeding diesel with rags and make sure the fittings are fully tightened when you finish. Any diesel that leaks from the injectors will go straight into your oil pan and thin the oil over time which worse case will sieze the motor. Try just installing a priming pump to start, whether permanent or temporary and with a little luck you won't have to crack your injector lines. Rob | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 174.48.3.218 Rating: N/A |
Thank you John Jack Debbie&Joe Rob, Great leads and modification advice. I will get it running for sure this weekend. I finally found the archives portion of this site, what a wealth of info. | ||
| John & Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 350 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 24.183.21.246  Rating: N/A |
I will probably get all kinds of flak for this, but I have primed Detroits in an emergency by pressurizing the fuel tank a little. I used to carry the valve stem and about 6 inches around of inner tube. Put it on the fuel tank with an aero seal clamp and maybe 5 or 10 pounds of air. Crank it a little and fire it up. I know, I know, not a real safe thing, but sometimes it's any "port in a storm"! John | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 23 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 174.48.3.218 Rating: N/A |
WOW that really is outside the box survival mode thinking. I like it. | ||
| Rob Allen (Rob_allen)
Registered Member Username: Rob_allen Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2009 Posted From: 194.69.148.1 Rating: N/A |
We tried pressurizing our tank first cause it was the simplest thing to do, but the fuel level was low and the diesel return line was pushing air to the injector lines. | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 158 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 75.3.203.214  Rating: N/A |
I have a question on the use of the garden sprayer to prime the fuel to the engine. I looked at my set up and all I can see is one fuel filter with a glass bowel at the bottow. One line going to the engine (both heads) In this line there is what looks to me like a presure regulater and then a ball type value. There is also a tee with a plug just befor the presure regulater. Is this the place to hook in the garden sprayer when priming? My engine is a 8v71 DD. I just want to be prepared in case I need it. | ||
| Roger Baughman (Roger)
Registered Member Username: Roger Post Number: 159 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 75.3.203.214 Rating: N/A |
I have a question on the use of the garden sprayer to prime the fuel to the engine. I looked at my set up and all I can see is one fuel filter with a glass bowel at the bottow. One line going to the engine (both heads) In this line there is what looks to me like a presure regulater and then a ball type value. There is also a tee with a plug just befor the presure regulater. Is this the place to hook in the garden sprayer when priming? My engine is a 8v71 DD. I just want to be prepared in case I need it. Thanks for all of the help on this, I sure do appreciate it very much, Roger | ||
| Jim Blumenthal (Jimblu)
Registered Member Username: Jimblu Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 141.156.33.61 Rating: N/A |
You can open the return line at the head and not touch the fuel jumper tubes. There are many ways to prime them. Opening the fuel line at the filters, stuffing a rag and hose in the fuel filler nozzle, and blowing in it by mouth is enough to lift fuel a few feet, depending on the fuel tank vent. On the road you get to be creative. Use caution pressurizing the tank  | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 24 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 174.48.3.218 Rating: N/A |
Lots of good advise and obvious know how here. Rob in regards to the issue you had with the leaks should I remove the valve covers to inspect this just for preventive maintenance. I drove her down from Indiana to Florida two months ago with no problems. | ||
| Rob Allen (Rob_allen)
Registered Member Username: Rob_allen Post Number: 19 Registered: 6-2009 Posted From: 194.69.148.1 Rating: N/A |
I think I worded my post kind of funny. We had several leaks outside the engine in the supply and return lines, and after trying to start her not knowing how much air was in the lines we basically forced all the diesel out of the injectors and replaced it with air. Once that had happened there was nothing to do except crack the injector supply lines under the valve cover and reprime with the drill pump. You drove from Indiana to Florida with no problems, theres no reason to be worried about your injectors leaking. And with a little luck a prime pump will get enough fuel to it that you don't have to crack those lines. So, I'd say until that's your last option you don't need to remove the valve covers. | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 25 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 174.48.3.218 Rating: N/A |
Thank you Rob. I plan to address this challenge tomorrow, with all of the input I have received here I now feel like nothing can surprise me. Rube Goldberg is going to teach me lesson for saying that. | ||
| hojji firemaker (Hojjifiremaker)
Registered Member Username: Hojjifiremaker Post Number: 75 Registered: 4-2008 Posted From: 67.142.168.23  Rating: N/A |
what worked for me, using things I had laying around, was a: garden pump sprayer with diesel in it, a bit of 1/2" clear poly tubing attached to the tip of the sprayer with a hose clamp, and the other end of the poly tubing attached to the fuel pump with another hose clamp... make sure the fuel filters are full and then pump the sprayer until there is pressure. pull the trigger until fuel comes out the disconnected 'out' port on the fuel filter. hook up the fuel filter to the main line again, pump a little more fuel in it, then hook up the 'in' port of the fuel filter to the line again too... start her up. worked great for me. I am carrying this pumper assembly with me now... it takes about 5 minutes to do. | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 26 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 174.48.3.218 Rating: N/A |
thank you fire maker I do plan on keeping a set up like the one you described and an inner tube with me on the road. PS my Phoenix is afraid of you. once burned twice shy. | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 30 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 174.48.3.218 Rating: N/A |
Great advice folks I got her running. Thank you for the help and education. |
