| Author | Message | ||
| Curtis (66.68.232.58) Rating: |
What do the majority perfer to use/have for A/C and Elec./Gas Heat while parked and on the road? Are there reliable light weight package units? Remember, no points given for perfect manure tossing  Cheers Curtis | ||
| Curtis (66.68.232.58) Rating: N/A |
Just wanted to add that I would like to stay away from roof mounted units. I just didn't know if you guys called it Central Air and Heat or by another name. Thanks Curtis | ||
| Frank Allen (152.163.205.67) Rating: N/A |
I dont know why you want to stay away from roof air as it is the most effeient, the central or often called basement air dont work nearly as well , i have a suburban furnace for heat, works fine. heat strips in the A/c . another thing about roof airs if you loose one you still have the other and you can replace just the one thats bad. i like em Frank allen 4106 | ||
| jared (209.237.13.146) Rating: N/A |
I am giving very serious thought to using three components for my heating system. Of course, my rig will be a bit weird because I refuse to use anything other than diesel and solar power. 1. Dickensen Marine diesel cookstove/heater. (the Webasto units appear to be too much of a headache to install, and more expensive than they are worth). This unit can provide all necessary cabin heat and cookstove/oven functions. They also provide backup hot water if necessary. 2. The Toyotomi Diesel Water Heater for my instantaneous hot water. 3. block heaters for the engine. 4. NO AC! These things gulp way too much power for a solar rig. Instead, I will put the $$ into superior insulation, limited windows, minimal use of ceiling vents, and high gloss white paint on the exterior of the rig. Weird, I know. These ideas should spark some debate here. -jared | ||
| Gary Stadler (Boogiethecat) (68.7.217.217)
Rating: N/A |
Well Jared, I guess it's ok to do up the bus with reflective stuff and insulate the heck out of it, but if you ever find yourself out on the desert where it's 115 outside in the shade, or even 100, all the cool insulation (no pun) in the world isn't going to keep your bus from becoming a human toaster. But if you restrict yourself to milder climates or simply don't mind the heat, go for it! It's gonna be your bus, not mine! (I wouldn't think of going anywhere without the AC in my half of the continent!) For me, I use what I consider to be most practical... generator for electridity, propane for the gene, heater, waterheater and cookstove, etc. I guess I'm not so much into being "trick" as I am into having fun with my bus... Cheers Gary | ||
| Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.121.64)
Rating: N/A |
Curtis-- it sounds like you are hoping for a combination heating and cooling system like you would find in a house-- nobody makes one! The most popular systems are either roof airs or basement airs, propane furnace or Webasto diesel furnace (hydronic system), supplimented by electic heat. For over the road you can retain the coach heating and AC system or you can run a generator and use your house system. --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| Curtis (66.68.232.58) Rating: N/A |
Frank, I was thinking of saving that foot or so for potential roof height (which lends it’s self to another question down the road). I have what it takes to build one from scratch (brain power wise), but there’s nothing like a ready to run unit that is tried and true. Jared, I’m with you on energy savings, I wish someone would come up with competitively priced hydrogen powered units; I’d be in line! I am looking in to the whole solar system options. I have to admit, they seem to have everyone by the short and curly. Gary, living in the Rio Grand Valley for the past 15 or so years has driven me to the same conclusion. Used or not mine will be so equipped. Cheers Curtis <--Living were it’s Cool, hot, hotter and Oh-my God, someone brake wind so we can get this hot air moving? | ||
| jared (209.237.13.146) Rating: N/A |
Curtis: The solar systems are expensive to start with, but they are highly reliable and provide free energy for many years after. Additionally, there are a number of tax breaks available for folks installing solar systems at their residencies, and of course, an RV is a second home according to Uncle Scam. I will be able to deduct 100% of the cost of my solar components, 100% of all equipment and supplies used to install the solar equipment, as well as 100% of all costs associated with obtaining and researching the solar equipment. Check with your CPA regarding tax policies in your state. I will be doing the conversion in Idaho, and I know that California has very similar code on it's tax books. -jared | ||
| Akrom (205.188.209.11) Rating: N/A |
Curtis, I wouldn't trade my RV Products central heat/AC for all of the drafty, leaky, noisy, inefficient roof-top units you could stack on top my bus! Akrom S. | ||
| Perry W Munger IV (64.81.114.17) Rating: N/A |
I'm thinking about a water chiller. A two-stage evaporative water chiller would be able to keep the inside of a bus cold enough to store meat, but there's two problems so far: water chillers are rather big and evaporative chillers use a lot of water when operational. They're a lot quieter than running a generator normally, though, and considerably more energy efficient. The other thing I was looking for was a gas-absorption chiller, but the smallest one of those I could find was a three-ton residential unit. Some of the propane transit buses seem to have gas-absorption chillers on them. These can run directly off of propane, LP, and possibly diesel with a lot of engineering. I just can't find a small one... | ||
| Curtis (66.68.232.58) Rating: N/A |
Jared good point, I’ll have to look into that, I love free, free energy! See, Another reason for not having roof units J. Perry, water chillers work well in the dry country, but were it is humid they don’t. If you’re going to be traveling all over the US, the different weather conditions needs to be considered, I think. (Chillers; better known as Swamp Coolers (BTDT in the 60’s). Anyone remember Travelez (spelling?) trailers in the 60’s. In the 80’s I owned and full-timed a 27’ Airstream bumper pull with roof air and std. RV heat, in the early 90’s my parents bought a two-year-old 35’ Canterbury 5th wheel with roof air and std. RV heat that they full-timed until illness forced sale. So you see I have a fair amount of roof air experience. I’m not saying that roof air units are a bad way to cool an R.V., I’d just like to try something else if all possible. Maybe something that is a tad less noisy. As for leaks, I never found that to be a problem as I would once every year or so pull the unit off the roof to give it a good cleaning. Now that I am closing in on middle age, I must ask myself if I think I will be crawling up on top of a bus to do A/C service like when I was younger? NOPE! Heat on the other hand I can honestly say, I have never owned or used (the 35’ 5th) an RV with a bad suburban style heater, most worked to well. So I think I would be more than happy to go with the norm on this one if need be! Akrom, do you know of some brand name of a few mfg. for the “off roof” or central a/c units? I have tried doing a GOOGLE search and have found little. Cheers Curtis | ||
| Geoff (Geoff) (66.238.120.121)
Rating: N/A |
Akrom reminded me there is a combination heat/cool unit, that would be the AC units with the heat pumps. Funny I forgot, since I have two roof airs with heat pumps! But still, the heat pumps are only good to 40F, after that they don't put out much heat to the point where the electric heat strips kick in. So you are still going to need additional heating for cold weather. --Geoff '82 RTS CA | ||
| Dale MC8 (64.66.204.233)
Rating: N/A |
Curtis, you should search the archives for a thread about mini-split a/c's it gives you another thing to think about. Gary, I once was full timing in a small (18') 5th wheel that used a 12v swamp cooler that ran from a couple solar cells, no battery, did good for me, but I was only in the gold country of calif. Jared, I am in Calif and am putting a good size solar system on my conversion. I was told that the tax break was only for stationary housing. If you have info to the contrary I would LOVE to hear it. Thanks to all contributers to this site. I have learned a great deal and have made some changes in my planning several times. Dale MC8 | ||
| Scott Whitney (66.82.9.32) Rating: N/A |
In regard to Jared's post and Gary's reply, the only way I can see benig comfortable in hot desert climates would be to do something along these lines: Heavily insulated coach with small windows. Double roof or large rack on roof to keep bus in perpetual shade. Bright white paint. At night open all windows and vents to allow as much cool air in as possible. Just before sunrise, get up and close all windows and put reflective insulation inserts into windows and vents. (go back to bed) Doing this I'd guess you could keep a bus reasonably cool to at least late afternoon. It would be dark inside during the day due to all windows being blocked up. Maybe in late afternoon, you go outside and BBQ and not worry about the bus being uncomfortable. Hopefully not too long after sundown, you can open windows again and start the process over. Note: I have not done this in a bus and am guessing how well it would work. I have done this in a house and it works pretty well (just the window opening and closing - not the reflective inserts). But it it ony way I would think spending much time in very hot climates would reasonably comfortable without any A/C. Also, I am thinking of desert conditions. In hot and humid climates - and places where nighttime lows never drop much, this method might be a nightmare. Money as no object, a diesel fired hydronic system is probably the best for heating. My comprimise is propane for heating by combining traditional furnace and a catalytic heater. (I also use a wood-fired contraption - but that is another story in itself) I am still surprised there is no propane, gas or diesel-fired A/C system readily availale to consumers. What do these new hybrid cars use for A/C? Wonder if something could be adapted. . . Scott | ||
| TomNPat (66.82.9.18)
Rating: N/A |
Scott, Add to your solution either awnings over the windows or, as we do, shade cloth covering over the windows. In our quick and dirty to be full conversion in 5 years, we've yet to remove the windows and that is our biggest source of heat inside. They get quite hot in the sun and the shade cloth cuts that 'heat absorbing' source of warmth. We also use a truck size reflective aluminum bubble pack windshield cover thing on the outside. Got it from a truck stop. I am also considering a 'patio misting' system as an addition until we get further along in the insulation, covering, etc. process. Could be a little messy if too much water is delivered. We just may paint the outside of the windows white for this year to keep cooler since skinning on one leg won't work. We had a 114 degree day this year when the one 13.5 roof air didn't do it. We went to Wal-Mart until dark! | ||
| Dale MC8 (64.66.198.243)
Rating: N/A |
TomNPat, I have been a full-timer for many years (stick and staple rigs) and have put awnings on both sides of my motorhomes with misters fastened permanetly to the awning tubes. I plan to do the same with my MC8. Although I have been in fairly temperate climes with this set up, it works well. Something to think about. Dale MC8 | ||
| ED-NJ (67.85.224.113)
Rating: N/A |
Dale mc8, Please tell me more about these misters fastened to the awning. Ive seen them & know what they are but where do you get them, and are they on some sort of timmer. Thanks Ed. | ||
| Jayjay (205.188.209.11) Rating: N/A |
RV Products (like Coleman Park model)is a dual unit with a 630 cfm blower. Yup, when it gets cold the heat strips kick on- just like the roof top units. Or it will start your gas furnace for you-automatically! Quieter, no moving about to find the cool/warm end of the coach. 30,000BTU cooling/5kw heat. at 24.5 amps. 'Spensive bugger @ $3500.00 Don't know what Akrom has, but I like mine immensely. ...JJ | ||
| Dale MC8 (64.66.207.244)
Rating: N/A |
Ed, I got my misters at a local home center, like Home Depot, Lowes, etc. The ones I used were made in AZ someplace, but all should work. I positioned the tubing at the extra groove in the awning tube, used duct tape to hold it there for the first year or so and then put wire ties with the screw-down-hole around the tubing and screwed them in place. A little lumpy when the awning is rolled up, but it works. I don't use a timer but leave the water on 24/7 at a very low rate. This seems to keep the spray nozzles cleaner, not as much mineral build-up. HTH Dale | ||
| jared (209.237.13.146) Rating: N/A |
In response to DaleMc8 question regarding taxing issues for solar systems. I verified this info through my CPA. Hook up with your CPA and he can give you the details. If you don't have a CPA, then shame on you! :^) -j | ||
| FAST FRED (209.26.115.215) Rating: N/A |
A friend of mine tried a soaker hose when visiting AZ. The UN fun was the lime ran down the sides , screwing yo a fine paint job. Being under a big tree is the best thing you can do for comfort. Everything else is "second best", but a doubble roofed WHITE coach with full sized awnings would come close. FAST FRED | ||
| Dale MC8 (66.52.64.102)
Rating: N/A |
No Jared I don't have a CPA, never had enough money to need one, may be time to pretend that I do. :-0 Dale | ||
| johnwood (206.252.250.128)
Rating: N/A |
AKROM; Tell me more about your RV products central unit. I've not heard of this brand. | ||
| Perry W Munger IV (64.81.114.17) Rating: N/A |
A water chiller can be a swamp cooler, but it needn't be. To make it work in more humid climes, you just have to increase the heat differential. Basically, instead of bringing in outside air and letting water evaporate in it, you spray water on a radiator where it evaporates and cools the radiator while a fan sucks it through. This way, you evaporate the water in the outside air without importing the air inside, greatly improving the cooling efficiency. The chilled water circulates to radiators in the coach. Now, put in a compressor or a gas-absorbtion heat pump between the input line and the output line of the radiator and you will significantly improve the efficiency of the heat pump, as the much hotter radiator will evaporate water faster. If I could find a decent gas-absorption heat pump, I'd be home free, but that seems to be the difficulty. However, even with a compressor-type heat pump, the system can be run without the compressor running in dry or lower temperature environs, reducing the noise and energy cost considerably. As for a propane-fired air-conditioner, that's what a gas-absorption cycle system is. On the cold side, the working fluid absorbs a gas which results in a reduction in temperature, why I don't know, and then the hot side causes the gas to come out of solution, once again, why I don't know, but, essentially, the system will work off any sufficiently high heat source, such as a large solar array, a diesel furnace, or propane. It could conceivably be run off the waste heat of the engine. The other thing I looked at, briefly, but discarded due to exhorbitant cost, is a stirling heat pump, which is remarkably quiet for what it does, but would be both large and expensive to achieve the level of wattage needed for a bus. A friend of mine assures me he can build one given enough time and effort, but I remain skeptical. I'd think that the very first thing would be a false roof of some sort canted at an angle to encourage convection if possible and painted with an elastomer-based paint for maximum reflectivity. Of course, all my ideas are untested. I think that's the first thing I'm going to build, though, is my chiller. I'm really fond of airconditioning and not fond of lugging a monster generator all over the place... | ||
| Ace Welding (216.119.12.50)
Rating: N/A |
Regarding central or basement airs, Duo-therm makes a 27000 BTU basment model with heat pump, which sells for $1950. A control center with 4 optional zones (IE to cool your bedroom more or less during given times) is also available for $80. This is what I'm using on my MCI7, rather than noisy roof airs or hassles running ductwork in the ceiling. I'm an RV parts dealer if anyone is interested. | ||
| Sam Sperbeck (206.230.105.250) Rating: N/A |
Ace Welding, How are you distributing the air to get 4 zones of cooling? You got my attention on this one as I am installing a basement unit in our Prevost and had planned to put ducts in the ceiling. Not a job I look forward to so your help would be appreciated. Thanks, Sam. | ||
| CoryDaneRTSIIIL (4.17.253.129) Rating: N/A |
Well this may be an obvious thought to everyone but AceWelding, If ducting for a (noisy) roof air has HASSLES for ducting, so does the basement model, especially if it has 4 zones. The benefit of the Roof model is it does not HAVE TO HAVE ducting, it becomes owners choice, where the basement MUST HAVE ducting, ie:more expense and time. THAT IS THE FIRST PLUS. You state the basement model runs $1950 for a heat pump at 27000btu that is only good in mild weather, then you have to turn on the heater anyway. ROOF TOPS can be had for $500 at 15000btu each, with addition of a heater $500 I am still cheaper, total about $1500 than the basement unit you are raving about. Enjoy your installation, you have not convinced me or perhaps I am too dollar conscience to see your advantage, whatever that might be. As is said here, perhaps all too often, do it your way - cd | ||
| CoryDaneRTSIIIL (4.17.253.129) Rating: N/A |
The above references TWO rooftop units at 15000btu and heater, I reread and missed it-OOPS |
