| Author | Message | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 384 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
I was asked the question which would be the the preferred choice for a busnut re the above. I came up with the usual like lower repair cost for the mechanical eg injectors etc. Other than optimum or better shifting for the mating electronic transmission, is there also a noticeable difference in fuel economy to be expected? Looking for answers from the collected wisdom gathered here. Joe. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 1058 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.75.62  Rating: N/A |
I guess the biggest difference would be the tool kit needed. For one, you'd need a pair of vice-grips and a hammer.... For the other, a small electronic engineering firm and a trailer full of odd tools with thousand dollar names. I loved my '49 Ford flathead 6. I could actually see where the spark plugs were. | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus Post Number: 370 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 166.235.220.42 Rating: N/A |
What John said!! That computer stuff is such a great thing UNTIL something goes haywire, then grab the home equity checkbook. E.G. See Toyota | ||
| Pete/RTS Daytona (Pete_rtsdaytona)
Registered Member Username: Pete_rtsdaytona Post Number: 596 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 97.104.18.110  Rating: N/A |
about 1 to 1.5 mpg difference | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 183 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
Yes you can get better mileage with the DDEC engine, but have ONE electronic problem with it and have to pay for repair, and there goes ALL you're fuel savings. For our use-stay with the mechanically controlled engine. It will just run and run you all around the country. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 803 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.153.91  Rating: N/A |
Stay mechanical if at all possible. That is words of wisdom from ALL on the Site,I think, I hate electronics when they start giving error codes,shut-down and there your are. Get the wallet out and keep a low balance card handy. Gomer | ||
| Jim Wilkerson (Wagwar)
Registered Member Username: Wagwar Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 12.158.159.62 Rating: N/A |
How can you tell the difference between a mechanical and electronic? What to look for in the engine compartment if you're like me and clueless. Regardless of how a bus might have been manufactured - stuff can change over the years. I'd like to be able to look in the engine compartment and identify an electronic. Thanks, | ||
| Bob MacIsaac (Wildbob24)
Registered Member Username: Wildbob24 Post Number: 81 Registered: 5-2007 Posted From: 98.92.169.230  Rating: N/A |
Jim, The mechanical engine will have the governor mounted on the end of the blower, at the front of the engine(rear of the bus) on top of which the throttle lever and engine stop lever are located. The electronic engine will have the ECM, usually mounted in the space made available by the removal of the governor. It's a pretty good sized box and will have at least 3 separate harnesses plugged into it. There is no throttle lever or stop lever...it's done electrically. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 1060 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.75.62 Rating: |
Re: "There is no throttle lever or stop lever...it's done electrically." They've been using the electronics in automobiles for years now. I think Toyota was one of the pioneers of the technolo.... oh.....never mind. | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1853 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
If you can understand the electronics and do your own diagnosing, because you are familiar with electronic fuel and timing control, go for it. Better fuel mileage, cleaner running engine, etc. If you are clueless about electrical and electronic diagnosis and repair, and need to rely on and pay others to fix a problem, then stay away from it. These coaches cost enough to maintain as it is, especially if you pay others for maintenance and repair. | ||
| Debo Cox (Debo)
Registered Member Username: Debo Post Number: 23 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 65.164.195.228  Rating: N/A |
Since the question has been asked and answered, I'll chime in my two cents worth. I specifically wanted a non-turbo, mechanically-controlled engine for simplicity sake (8V71N), and even though most automatic transmissions are pretty well bulletproof, I looked for a manual. My reasoning goes back to the KISS principle and the fact that I'm going to use my coach in my retirement where I'll have a reasonably fixed income, and won't be able to tolerate many "gotcha" fixes. I'm also mechanically inclined, and took a diesel mechanics class at the local community college so I can do some of my own head-scratchin'. I may give up a little horsepower or fuel economy here and there, but the tradeoff is that when something happens, more than likely it won't be a dealbreaker for me. The siren song of "bigger, better, faster, more efficient" can be a powerful one, but I just tried to be as practical as possible when making my decisions. | ||
| Jim Blumenthal (Jimblu)
Registered Member Username: Jimblu Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 141.156.168.157 Rating: |
I kept my first bus for 23 years. Mechanical engine and 10 speed transmission. As it aged so did I. Sitting in traffic which has increased dramatically prompted getting an automatic. I wouldn't trade the mileage loss for a backache again. Sit in heavy traffic with a manual transmission a few hours before you decide, you can't always pull over. Not looking for flames, just cautioning anyone who hasn't done it to try it first. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 937 Registered: 7-1997 Posted From: 99.39.13.50 Rating: N/A |
Here's my couple of thoughts: 1. Don't buy a mechanical engine bus and try to put an electronic engine in it. (Or vice-versa.) 2. The electronic engines are easier to repair, AND DIAGNOSE! Just plug in the reader, and it will tell you where it hurts. 3. All the newer engines are electronic, pretty soon there won't be any mechanics out there that can diagnose an engine without a code reader. 4. Shop labor rate is the same for either type of control, so why not have the eng tell you what's wrong before you start loking? 5. Consider the difference in power, economy, and lack of smoke between a 6V92TA, and an 8V71n. G | ||
| les marston (Les_marston)
Registered Member Username: Les_marston Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 68.151.248.141 Rating: N/A |
Thank you George! I was hoping someone would tell the other side of this issue. We started with a 1966 MC5A with a 8V71N and even after a complete rebuild it was still a bit smoky when started cold and by the time we had air up and could move most of our neighbors were glad to see us go. We now have a 60 series... would never go back to 2 stroke or mechanical. Les | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus Post Number: 371 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 166.233.191.23 Rating: |
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=15021.0 Yep, so much easier to repair and diagnose. Just plug in that new code reader you just got from Advance Auto and presto! (sarcasm) At least he ain't along side of the road in the middle of the boonies. (Message edited by happycampersrus on February 20, 2010) | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 938 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.39.13.50 Rating: N/A |
Well Dale, You have linked us to another board, with a post from someone who doesn't even know whether he has a DDEC or an MUI engine. He "THINKS" he has a fuel problem, but he doesn't know. Not to mention it is a 22 year old transit bus. He doesn't mention the last time he changed fuel filters, OR the fact that he changed them to try and clear his problem. 10 posts later, somebody else figures out he has has DDEC-II, AND he has no power to the injectors! Now, what happens when you have a bad ground on the Skinner valve on your mechanical engine? The answer of course, is that sometimes it won't start, or it dies un-expectedly. Dirty fuel filters on an electronic engine will throw a code, dirty fuel filters on a mech eng just make it hard to start, and reduce its power. What are YOU going to do when your mech eng quits in the boonies? Call the tow service and tell them "it just quit?" The guy with an electronic can call them and ask "what is code 24?" before he pays for a tow! When they tell him its low water, low oil, or low fuel pressure, he can decide whether to change filters, look for a suction leak, or look for fuel in the tank, rather than getting towed in because he thought he still had fuel. No sarcasm here. G | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 1063 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.73.114 Rating: N/A |
George........ Any diesel mechanic will tell you (as they have told me), that there is no engine easier to work on, or diagnose, than a basic two-stroke diesel. Computerization was added for environmental control, and it complicated diesel operation, not simplified it. Today's automobiles are no different. One faulty sensor can cause havoc. There are times that a "code reader" will not be of any help. Trial and error replacement of expensive parts takes place, along with the time used for experimentation. Code readers and the codes the computer spits out, don't always point to the actual problem. It all costs more, not less. Any numb-nut like me, can figure out most problems with a basic two-stroke, while a computerized rig would leave me totally bewildered. | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus Post Number: 372 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 166.233.232.218 Rating: N/A |
G wrote: "10 posts later, somebody ELSE figures out he has has DDEC-II, AND he has no power to the injectors!" My point made exactly!! Thanks! It sometimes takes an army to diagnose a DDEC engine. To answer your question, if you suspect a bad skinner valve or ground you trouble shoot it. LOL Does the valve work with the switch? Can you remove the plunger and drive the bus on a mechanical engine?? Sure can! Can you do that with a DDEC?? uumm? NO! If the Engines "just quit" without a catastrophic failure, then all a MUI would need is fuel and compression to move it. What would a DDEC need? who knows? Fuses? Relays? New ECM? Broken wire? Dirty connection? Code reader? Tow Service? Fuel filters are or should be on your PM program and you should have an extra set or two, so that's no big deal with either engine. Actually you can plumb in a gauge on a MUI engine to tell you the condition of your fuel filters. When my mechanical engine quits in the boonies I can assure you without any doubt I won't need an expensive code reader, new ecm module, electrical engineering degree, or a tow service. Will you need those things on a friday night at 9pm? FWIW, I'd love to see someone call a diesel shop at 9pm on a friday night and ask what code 24 is. ROTFLMAO I don't post on these boards much anymore, but I still read them daily for the entertainment value. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 855 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.83.4 Rating: N/A |
The problem I run into trying to help is most of the new owners don't know how to flash the code or read them. So I leave that to Pete lol good luck | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1807 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.68.122.123  Rating: |
There are so many technicians out there pretending to know how to use a scan tool, that the LIES they spread about the scan tool and the electronics being the limitation and not the techs' limited knowledge/experience, the lies have become truth. After you have seen a scan tool used by the proper hands, the myths evaporate. The problem area is identified, a few diagnostic tests confirm the specifics, and the proper parts are replaced for a reason, not as a shotgun effort. We have no idea how much mechanical work has been done unnecessarily on our rides by these same goofs over the years. Good old days, my arse! The only fleet owner wanting to return to the fuel consumption of the pre-electronic engines is the one who cannot staff the shop with competent techs. And he wasn't running a decent fleet back then either. Now, in a used up, worn out, hardly used bus conversion, the electronics may cause trouble, but not because of the electronics per se, but because of the condition of the wiring. Prediction: Moving forward in this hobby, corroded wiring harnesses will be the new frontier. It will become a standard practice to re-wire the engine computer related bits and pieces to return reliability to the electronics. With the number of techs who foolishly were piercing wires with their multi-meters in the early electronic coaches, instead of using the schematics, this may be a bigger problem in the coaches hitting the hobby now, than in the ones in another decade or two. I hope busnuts skip the middle step and just work on getting smart about the electronics. happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1225 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 74.4.63.215  Rating: N/A |
We had a shifting problem on our Ford F350 (AOD transmission). We had it to the Ford dealer several times and they always connected the code reader and said everything was OK. I finally took it to a transmission shop that was run by an older gentelman that had spent his entire adult life working on automatic transmissions. Took 1 quick test drive and he said "Your 4th gear shift solenoid is not working". He connected his code reader and it said the 4th gear solenoid was OK. The 4th gear solenoid was working ELECTRICALLY, but not MECHANICALLY. Like everything else, code readers are not infallible. Jack | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 185 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
If you want to see an electronic mess, just go visit your big rig dealer and tilt the hood to see what electronics are like now. Detroit Diesels new DD13, 15, 16 were all designed as electronic engines to support smog devices. The ECM's on the engines now are as powerful as a desk top. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| joe padberg (Joemc7ab)
Registered Member Username: Joemc7ab Post Number: 385 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 66.38.159.33 Rating: N/A |
Good comments for either set up,many thanks | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 942 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.39.13.50 Rating: N/A |
BW, thanks for the support, as usual. Common sense prevails. JTNG, from GTOG, we have agreed to disagree before, and we can again. Not to mention you never post anything ridiculous. Dale, you may be able to diagnose problems with your mechanical engine, but what about the example you used? That poster didn't even know what type of engine he had, and neither did the next several posters! You may change fuel filters, but what IS wrong with his bus? He isn't going to be able to diagnose a MUI, however, if he had a repair manual, he wouldn't even have needed to make a call. I don't normally make this sort of a reply, but the Freightliner dealer near me on I-5 has a sign out in front which reads "Open 6am to midnight M-F, 8-4 Sat & Sun, Motorhomes Welcome" Since you made the comment: "I would like someone to call a diesel shop at 9pm on Friday and ask what code 24 is," I would like you to call your shop and tell them "my bus just quit, and what do you think might be wrong?" It needs to be clear, my bus is mechanical, my diesel pickup is electronic. Luckily, I can diagnose my mechanical, and I can read a voltmeter, and a code reader. I didn't go to my local NAPA store and buy an OBD-2 because my buddy in the trans shop has one from Snap On. It diagnoses engine, trans, AND the anti-lock brakes. One more thing, Jack's post shows a MECHANICAL failure, and IMNSHO some less than stellar mechanics! What's left when the trans checks out OK electrically and still doesn't work? Drop the trans pan, and look! There it is, something broken, and parts laying in the pan. What would you have done to a C-6 without high gear? Look at the shift linkage and the modulator, then drop the pan. Electronically, they looked at the shift linkage and the modulator, excuse me, but YOU expect THEM to diagnose a dead MUI when they didn't even drop the pan to take a look??? I'm done... G | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus Post Number: 373 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 4.152.102.41 Rating: |
Well "G" All I'm saying is that a MUI is a heck of a lot easier and Cheaper to trouble shoot. For a Newbie, an electronic bus may not be a good first choice without fairly deep pockets. Just try and call a Freightliner dealer and get a code read to you over the phone for a bus. I would love to know the result. No joke. First thing they will want to do is dispach a tech to seperate you from your cash. "G" wrote: "What would you have done to a C-6 without high gear? Look at the shift linkage and the modulator, then drop the pan. Electronically, they looked at the shift linkage and the modulator, excuse me, but YOU expect THEM to diagnose a dead MUI when they didn't even drop the pan to take a look???" Wow!, I think what you are getting at is you were having a hard time getting a knowledgable person to look at your Ford. (BTW a C-6 is non electronic, Jack has an AOD). If that relates the way I think you want it to, you are really gonna be disappointed with a Freightshaker tech reading codes on an DDEC bus. A code reader on anything I've ever used one on will point you in the general direction. They are not a tell all, fix all kinda magic box. For an example my wife's 2004 Buick gave a code a few months ago and said #3 cylinder miss fire. Now was that a plug, wire, coil, dirty connection, or something else? I've been a heavy equipment mechanic for decades now and have worked on so many mechanical and electronic engines and transmissions that my mind was made up for me years ago that a Nonelectronic vehicle is a whole easier to fix along the side of the road. Oh well, I'm done! I've wasted to much time on this. LOL (Message edited by happycampersrus on February 22, 2010) | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1227 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 74.4.63.215 Rating: N/A |
George, I agree the "mechanics" were not thorough. They simply said because the engine (7.3 diesel) had 230,000 miles, it is weak and that is your problem, so we will not do anything else under warranty to your rebuilt transmission (purchased from Ford). We are still running that same engine. When the other mechanic pulled the pan there was nothing in the bottom of the pan. Apparently, an O ring inside the solenoid had failed. Jack | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 1067 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.76.112 Rating: N/A |
George ... The company I bought my used 2002 Ford Superduty van from, had an ongoing problem with the truck stalling, and not starting again. The Ford dealer had it on the machine each time it had been towed in, and yet was unable to pin-point any problem with the 7.3 Powerstroke. Their code reader indicated absolutely no problem. In a storage panel, there were some of the companies receipts from the Ford dealer... Not one was less than a grand. That van sat for two+ years, since the medical institution no longer trusted it for use. The van had 34,000 miles on it when I bought it; It looked brand new! When it stalled, I used starting ether to get it running and drove it to the local diesel shop. Their "code reader" did not indicate any problem. However....Their mechanic knew from his personal experience, what was likely causing the problem. Their guy replaced the IPR valve, and the van's been running perfect since. So..... so much for "electronic wizardry", and "thank you" to a mechanic with experience, that can fix things without using a computer. Life's good, George; Even better, when we go back to basics. Mucho' thankso' | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 945 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.39.13.50 Rating: N/A |
Dale, You missed the point completely! A C-6 was the Ford hydraulic transmission before the electronics. If it didn't work properly, you checked the modulator, (I hope you know what one of them was,) the linkage, and then you dropped the pan. In regards to your 2004 Buick with a #3 cylinder misfire. THE ELECTRONICS TOLD YOU WHICH CYLINDER TO LOOK AT! Had it been either a distributor with points and a condenser, or an HEI distributor, (again I hope you know what that is,) you would have had to check all 6 or 8 plugs, wires, etc to find the misfiring cylinder. I make no bones about electronics being blamed for most problems, and usually it is not the computer. Ace posted a comment here about a year ago concerning intermittent troubles with his bus quitting, and the fact that he found a loose GROUND connection on his water level wire, after a year of trouble. My ex-wife's 6 month old '86 Toyota Camry station wagon would die on hot days with the air conditioning on, when stopped in traffic. After it sat for an hour or so, it would re-start, and run fine for a week or so. Five tows into the dealer, and replacing the cold-start switch didn't fix it, they gave up, saying they didn't know what else to do, and you know she had to be desperate before she would admit to a problem and call me. I suggested she write to Japan, remember "Toyota, I love what you do for me," or something like that? She did, and it worked. A couple of weeks later she got a call from the dealer who wanted her car, and permission to drive it as much as necessary to find out what was wrong. They also gave her a free loaner, with no restrictions. The car ran fine for two weeks, the parts runner used it insted of the company truck. Finally one day when he got back, a mechanic took it into town for lunch, where it died in line at the In and Out Burger, and wouldn't re-start. He ended up pushing it thru, and called the shop to come get him. When they got it towed back, it started right up, as usual. They ended up replacing the entire fuel injection system, the fuel pump, the under-hood wiring harness, and the entire ignition system. She signed a warranty work order for over $1100 in wholesale cost of parts, and something they replaced fixed it, but they don't know what. Now, somebody who knew SOMETHING could have pulled a plug wire off while it was hot and wouldn't re-start, looked for a spark while cranking, AND NARROWED THE SEARCH BY HALF!!! Spark means the problem is no fuel, no spark is self-explanatory... The car ran fine for about three years, and a lot of miles, until Fresno Jiffy Lube forgot to put oil back in it. It had a gauge, nobody noticed it at zero, and she got three blocks. A computer would have put up a check gauges light and chime, and saved Jiffy a rebuilt engine. Look at Nellie's headlights (the ones on her bus,) still not right, even after somebody tried to fix what the PO had done wrong. The problem is just simple wires not on the right terminals, and low beams don't work right in series. G | ||
| RJ Long (Rjlong)
Registered Member Username: Rjlong Post Number: 1680 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 67.182.48.162  Rating: N/A |
Ah, fellows. . . Relax, it's only an internet bulletin board. This is beginning to sound too much like the eternal Ford vs Chevy or Hatfields & McCoys. Good points for both sides, no sense irritating others to the point of departure. Now back to our normal, light-hearted banter, please! FWIW & HTH. . .  | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus Post Number: 374 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 166.231.169.225 Rating: |
George wrote: "I make no bones about electronics being blamed for most problems, and usually it is not the computer." Then why advocate so hard for a system that without an arsonal of expensive test gear, some training, and several pages of wiring diagrams the average bus nut won't be able to repair. Don't believe I miss the point at all. If you go back and count you see more folks are saying go MUI. My point about the electronics was made by my wife. SHE paid a shop $35 to tell her it had a miss fire (not me). Now at my stage in the game, I already know at 70K miles it was due for wires and plugs, so no scan needed. I was out of town and have 5 cars tagged, but she wants to drive that Buick and wouldn't wait. And yes I changed more vacuum modulators and HEI modules, than you've probably seen. A little background on my abilites. 18yrs working on military aircraft Did hold an A&P license. Expired, but I'm fairly sure I can still hang. ASE certified auto tech worked for 2 dealerships. ASE certified Medium & Heavy truck tech. RJ wrote: "no sense irritating others to the point of departure." Sorry, but I so regret posting on this thread at all, so I will go back to reading, laughing, shaking my head at some of the information and not posting. (Message edited by happycampersrus on February 23, 2010) | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1812 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.69.140.90 Rating: N/A |
Most busnuts moving forward won't have a choice. Electronic will be the only viable choice using the "Buy the newest, most plentiful parts, etc" directive. And the EPA? Oh, they wouldn't outlaw the rest of us would they? oh dear... Somebody is going to have to figure this out or the show is over. we're resourceful, we'll manage! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 949 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.39.13.50 Rating: N/A |
Well Dale, 1. I still hold an electrician's license, maybe that's why electronics don't bother me. 2. Your example was the electronics telling you it was a #3 cylinder misfire, whether you or your wife drove it to the shop. Thanks to the electronics, you only have to check one plug/wire to clear the problem, instead of 6 or 8. 3. Read the posts carefully, I haven't advocated electronics over mechanical at all. G | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1096 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.82.9.14  Rating: N/A |
SHE paid a shop $35 to tell her it had a miss fire (not me). Now at my stage in the game, I already know at 70K miles it was due for wires and plugs, so no scan needed. The Po Boy check is to get out of bed and make it to the car with out turning on or seeing any light. Open the hood , start the car. IF there is a LIGHT SHOW coming from the plug wires , its time for a swop out. FF | ||
| Dale Waller (Happycampersrus)
Registered Member Username: Happycampersrus Post Number: 375 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 166.233.104.26 Rating: |
(1)Electronics don't bother me either. Kinda got a good grasp on OHM's law and what electromotive force is. Is it E=IxR? or I=E/R? or R=E/I? or all three? LOL (2)Didn't matter if it was #3 or #6 plug wire at 70K miles it needs all 6, so a scan tool would have been a waste of time "G" wrote: "The electronic engines are easier to repair, AND DIAGNOSE! Just plug in the reader, and it will tell you where it hurts." "Easier to repair AND DIAGNOSE" Kinda looks like advocating to me. Just saying! In the words of Kathy Baker: That's All! | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 538 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193  Rating: N/A |
Seems the biggest issue is trouble-shooting skills or the lack there of. . . . A code reader does just that, it reads the codes. It cannot add an editorial or opinion. Far too many think that the sensor that caused the code is the problem. More often it is something up stream that is amis & it takes real intelligence to sort it out. Then there is the disposable nature of electronic black boxes - darn difficult to justify repair of a black box when the cost of a new one is known, but the cost to repair is only an estimate & could go higher. The thing that concerns me about mui engines is the shrinking techinical support/ service. The new technicians don't get to see them very often if at all, so they have no experience with them. How many times have we been told by an employee at a detroit diesel shop that DD didn't make a 2 stroke? One of the biggest things that concerns me about electronic engines is that, due to computers & code readers, it is easier for incompetent techs to hide their lack of understanding of what is going on in the engine. My choice of an engine will be what ever is in it that runs good. If I have to repower, I'll pick something that is common & the service techs (hopefully) understand. While it is comforting to know I can fix it, it is nice to have as many options as possible when service is needed. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 857 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.83.4 Rating: |
I am sure this same came up when we went from horses to gasoline power time waits for no one electronics are the future like it or not which I don't |
