| Author | Message | ||
| Leonard (Tizer4)
Registered Member Username: Tizer4 Post Number: 37 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 12.73.189.208 Rating: N/A |
What are some good 8D deep cycle flooded batteries? Does Deka make one? Thanks. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1043 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.26  Rating: N/A |
"Deka" is the VRLA brand from East Penn, so by definition they do not have flooded batteries. But East Penn does. Every other major manufacturer does, too, but figuring out who makes what requires a decoder ring. I recommend you read through Bill Darden's web site before making your purchase: http://BatteryFaq.org --Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Dave Walker (Chrome_dome)
Registered Member Username: Chrome_dome Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2010 Posted From: 67.174.144.159  Rating: N/A |
The website for battery stuff is http://www.batteryfaq.org/ Dave | ||
| Earl Bonnell (Earl8ky)
Registered Member Username: Earl8ky Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 207.162.166.20 Rating: N/A |
I would not use 8D batteries. go with 4 group 31,s more amps longer life and less money. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1044 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.26 Rating: N/A |
Is there an echo in here? 
You state this as an unequivocal fact, but in reality, "it depends." A typical 8D has more than twice the capacity of a typical group 31, all else being equal (IOTW, same brand/manufacturer, type, construction, etc.), which makes sense, because it is also more than twice the weight. So "more amps" is plain incorrect. "Less money" is relative. When you look at it as dollars per amp-hour (for the same grade/brand/type battery), it's usually pretty even. Moreover, to use gp31 instead of 8D, you'll need twice as many cables, twice as many hold-downs, twice as many clamps, etc. etc., so the initial installation costs for 31 vs. 8D is actually higher. That's especially true if retrofitting an existing application that was designed for 8D. As far as longer life, again, if you are comparing apples to apples -- say, Rolls to Rolls, or Trojan to Trojan, there is no reason why a group 31 will outlast an 8D or vice-versa. It's only when you start looking at different brands, or different battery types (e.g. Traction vs. Backup) that you will see life cycle differences. The single biggest reason to switch from 8D to group 31 is handling. Manhandling 8Ds into place is a chore, and can even be dangerous. Group 31 is much easier to get in and out. And the price you will pay for that ease is slightly lower capacity, having to buy and maintain twice as many cables and connections, and having to check and water twice as many cells. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (Message edited by Sean on April 03, 2010) (Message edited by Sean on April 04, 2010) | ||
| larry currier (Larryc)
Registered Member Username: Larryc Post Number: 320 Registered: 2-2007 Posted From: 207.200.116.13 Rating: N/A |
Flooded cell 8D's are common in deep cycle/start. I take mine back to the battery shop for water and all service is free. When they die, the battery shop puts in another set. A year ago, I paid $100 each and we bought 5. Inexpensive for the power available. | ||
| Leonard (Tizer4)
Registered Member Username: Tizer4 Post Number: 38 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 12.73.189.224 Rating: N/A |
I appreciate the input; however, no one has answered the question: “What are some good 8D batteries?” I’m not interested in Group 31’s just 8D’s please. Thank you. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1202 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.243.151.126 Rating: N/A |
........last I had were Interstate. FWIW RCB | ||
| Dave Walker (Chrome_dome)
Registered Member Username: Chrome_dome Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2010 Posted From: 67.174.144.159 Rating: N/A |
Sorry Sean not trying to be an Echo the link didn't open for me so I was just re- stating it. Please accept my apology. | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1045 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.11 Rating: |
"... no one has answered the question ..." I answered your question, in the best way anyone can, in the very second post in this thread. Did you read the entirety of the web site I linked? If what you wanted was brand names and model numbers, you need to provide more parameters. Probably the best house batteries you can buy are Rolls Surrette. When you see how much those cost, I am betting you would tell me that you did not just mean “What are some good 8D batteries?" Batteries are, for the most part, commodity items. It does no good for me to tell you that Acme Mark-II batteries are the best if you can't find them within 100 miles of where you need them. How many amp-hours do you need? How big is your charger? What's your budget? Do you want to optimize capacity or cycle life? What Depth of Discharge will you average? What are the maximum and minimum temperatures in which your batteries will be expected to operate? What is the maximum discharge current they will need to support? Will they be charged weekly, or sit for long periods? Without the answers to these questions, no one can begin to tell you what batteries you need to be looking at. I gave you that link because the very question you asked, wherein you used the vague term "deep cycle" without more specifically defining your requirements, suggested to me that you need to bone up on battery technology before making a purchase. Until you've done that, people here throwing out brand names will do more harm than good -- they are meaningless without the context of the operating parameters of your application. So it is possible the reason "no one has answered the question" is that you have not given us enough information to do so. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1046 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.11 Rating: N/A |
Dave, I should have put a smiley after that... I was being tongue-in-cheek. That site does not required the WWW ahead of it, and Bill mostly links it without. It works either way, though. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Leonard (Tizer4)
Registered Member Username: Tizer4 Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2009 Posted From: 12.73.188.213 Rating: |
Sean One of the main reasons for joining the board was to get useful information on buses. I do not live and breath buses. It is just a hobby not my life. Please save the long condescending lectures for others that want or need it. I would very much appreciate if you no longer answer any of my post. Thank you. | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 138 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.59.114.207  Rating: |
Whoa, Dude... I'm thinking you sure don't want to burn any bridges for those on this site who really know their stuff. Sean has answered some of my electrical questions in the past and he goes waaay over my head, but sometimes too much is not enough. I too have my bus for fun, but I want opinions and good info when I ask a question. I bought my 8-D's at Napa & they ran them through another customer's account (but I paid cash) to save me more with their discount. That's my answer and I'm sticking with it. So...enjoy the lectures and opinions of others. Life's too short as it is. At 55, I'm still loving it like I was still 25...but I don't drink so much. Happy Easter... | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 864 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.153.91  Rating: N/A |
I think that sometimes too much is way better than just enough to get in trouble! "Sean has answered some of my electrical questions in the past and he goes waaay over my head, but sometimes too much is not enough." Sean is one of the best at helping people and sometimes the answers he gives, makes me go to da book and do some research and I find HE is More knowledgable than some of the books I have studied in the past. I AlWAYS read what HE says so I can retain it in MY brain the best I can. Sean, Good Job!! Gomer | ||
| Jim Shepherd (Rv_safetyman)
Registered Member Username: Rv_safetyman Post Number: 301 Registered: 1-2004 Posted From: 75.221.115.108 Rating: |
Tizer4, I don't often get upset with folks on this, or any of the bus boards, but you have p@$%^& me off. You come here asking a question and then you reject or ignore the answers. That is bad enough, but then you come close to a personal attack of a person who spends a ton of time trying to help folks like you. He IS the expert, believe me!!!! You want a 10 cent answer to a very complex subject. That is not the kind of answer you are going to get on this board. You need to go to someplace like Wal Mart or "cheap batteries are us" and get a real "expert" answer that will satisfy your need for a dumbed down answer. We don't need this kind of crap on any of the bus boards. Jim | ||
| Douglas Wotring (Tekebird)
Registered Member Username: Tekebird Post Number: 436 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 71.57.224.23 Rating: |
Leonard, FYI boards are some of the best places to get good answers. if your looking for a answer in some particular format that suits exactly what you are looking from a vague question.....do your own research.....you are on the computer for pete's sake | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1842 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.69.140.247  Rating: N/A |
And, the archives of this board are heavily researched by those who join the hobby after the typing is done. There is a responsibility to the future as well as the present reader. As a group, this bunch of hobbyists strive for correct information, good engineering and best practices. Perhaps one of the RV boards will produce the answers you seek? happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1204 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.243.128.129 Rating: N/A |
One does not have to read if one does not choos to; putting a gag on another is dictatorial...contrary to the North American way of doing things...contrary, at least in perspective, to the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States. There are folks on this board, and other forums, who are appreciative of information posted in excess of bare bones . Seems to me it is each individual's call on "how much" they wish to assimilate ...or ignore. Meantime, enjoy the opportunity for FREE "expertise" and opinion.... as presented. Many of those "opinions" are from folks who have life experience (make their living and are qualified); who freely and willingly offer their help. This is a most treasured resource, thanx to the contributors and to our Boss Nut!. FWIW and Thanx. Happy Easter! RCB | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 872 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.83.4 Rating: N/A |
Leonard, when I was looking for 8D deep cycle to replace my AGM Lifelines the only place I found that had a true deep cycle lead plate flooded cell 8D was Sterling Battery in Bosie ID I am sure there others but I never found one good luck | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1048 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.13 Rating: |
Leonard, I apologize if my response came across as condescending. It is one of my faults that my writing style sometimes conveys that tone, even if it is not intended. But please also consider the tone of your second post. You asked a question about an enormously complex subject upon which hundreds of pages here have been written. By my count, you got three meaningful answers to that question (and, yes, one suggestion that was orthogonal to it), and then you came back here and wrote that no one had answered you. What I got from that was that you either wanted a simple answer to a complex question, or you simply did not understand just how complex your original question was. In either case, my response was intended to give you some helpful information that might also explain why you did not get any simple answers. As far as buses being "just a hobby" for you, that's probably true for almost all of us here. But lots of things on a bus can maim or even kill you (even the batteries), and so even as a hobby, you have to take the time to know what you are doing. Lastly, I regret that I must refuse your request to refrain from answering any more of your posts. There are two reasons. The first is simply that I answer hundreds of posts here and elsewhere, and I can not possibly keep everyone's nick straight or remember with whom I am no longer supposed to be on speaking terms. People come up to me all the time at rallies and remind me of some discussion we had here and I almost never remember it. The more important reason is that this is a public forum. You may ask a question here today, but someone else will come by here tomorrow or next year and find that thread with the search function and read the answers. So my answers here are always written with the thought that they will be read not just by the OP, but by hundreds of people for years to come. So I am afraid the burden must remain with you: you are welcome to skip reading any of my posts here. (You probably should not read any of the electrical questions in the archives, then...) But I would hope that you will reconsider and take my last comments in the spirit in which they were intended. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 969 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 64.55.111.6 Rating: |
Sean, Hooray for your post immediately above!!! Thank you also for the patience, courtesy, tolerance, and EFFORT you put into this on a regular basis! Unfortunately some of the newbies just don't think before they post, or before they do things that may well be hazardous! IMNSHO, and Leonard, that means "in my not so humble opinion" Sean doesn't owe you an apology, its the other way around! If Leonard had been here very long, he would have said the same thing about me. I'm sorry you were the target, but maybe he will learn from this, after all, we have more years on this board than he has months! Respectfully, George Todd | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 349 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208  Rating: |
Leonard, You don't happen to own an ice cream truck, do you? | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1870 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
Caterpiller makes a deep cycle maintenance free battery; I know, because my 4905 has two of them for start batts. and house use. I will replace with same. 1400 plus cca. @ 0 degrees | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 873 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.83.4 Rating: N/A |
John,what is the number on your Cat battery I know they make a gel and AGM deep cycle but I have the Cat calcium sealed 8d's for starting and they are not deep cycle. I wanted to try the Cat 8d AGM but not a 700 bucks a pop. Cat has a good battery the 8D would last about 7 years in my equipment and their g31 will last | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1873 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157 Rating: N/A |
it is Cat 153-5720 http://www.cat.com/cda/components/fullArticle?m=37407&x=7&id=241185 | ||
| Matt Christian (Southbound)
Registered Member Username: Southbound Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2008 Posted From: 72.172.43.196  Rating: N/A |
Never-mind, too easy to find strife and hatred, I'll not feed it. IMHO (Message edited by southbound on April 04, 2010) | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1844 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 76.66.16.208 Rating: N/A |
Len, you are one funny guy! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 865 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.153.91 Rating: N/A |
Ah come on guys!! Chessie need some straightning out too ya kno!! LOL I have been blasted by the BEST and I admit that I,like others have been proven sometimes stupid because I have overlooked the simplicity of what I was doing, And that is a fact with my hand UP!! Leonard: Sorry about your feelings in this matter but I had to take some slamming about my stuff too!! Gomer | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 203 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
I have had flooded 8D's, and now I have two 8D Lifeline AGM batteries. I love them! No checking the batteries (they're sealed), they don't out gas so the terminals never need cleaning. You literally install them and basically forget about them until they don't hold a charge (around 5 years) anymore and replace them. Each 8D is 255 amp hours. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1049 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 72.171.0.142 Rating: N/A |
Actually, John, Cat does not make batteries any more than they make work boots. Both those products carrying the Cat name are brand licensing arrangements made by third parties. While the list on Bill Darden's site I linked in my first post will tell you who makes many of these private labels, Caterpillar is not spelled out, most likely because the batteries are made by a number of companies, depending on where and when they are sold. The only way to know for sure who made a Cat-labeled battery is to look at the manufacturer code stamped on the casing. Last I checked, East Penn was one of the major suppliers. No doubt the batteries you got are good ones, but also no way to be sure you'd get the same ones if you bought them in a different part of the country or at a different time of the year. FWIW. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com (Message edited by Sean on April 04, 2010) | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 874 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.83.4 Rating: N/A |
Sean, I don't know who makes their gel or AGM batteries and I don't recall the name but the lead batteries were made by a co in Nova Scotia to Cat specs for 30 years that I know of, probably Mexico or China now. They are a good battery but are not cheap good luck | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1051 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 72.171.0.142 Rating: N/A |
Clifford, I think it was East Penn at least through the 90s for most of them, and I have heard now that they may have switched to GNB. Surrette is the only plant I am aware of in Nova Scotia, but I confess to being generally uneducated on most things Canadian. As I have written extensively elsewhere, many private-label arrangements, Cat included, involve extensive specifications provided by the brand owner to the manufacturer. For example, Wal-Mart (Ever-Start), Sears (Die-Hard), and Interstate Battery do not manufacture batteries, but all these brands have private labels with their own specifications that the underlying manufacturers must meet. Did not mean to imply that there is anything wrong with Cat's specs or their manufacturers, just wanted to correct the impression that they actually made batteries -- they don't. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Bruce Henderson (Oonrahnjay)
Registered Member Username: Oonrahnjay Post Number: 536 Registered: 8-2004 Posted From: 149.168.204.4  Rating: N/A |
Is there any drawback (other than price) for batteries that are "sealed" or "maintenance-free" -- it would seem like the benefits of no gassing, no water adding, no corrosion on cables, etc. would be really positive. But do they hold less a/hours, deteriorate quicker, show temperature effects, etc.? | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1053 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 67.142.130.45 Rating: N/A |
Bruce, It depends on type. "Maintenance Free" batteries such as are typically found at big-box and auto parts stores are actually regular flooded lead-acid batteries with non-user-serviceable caps. I recommend you stay away from this type of battery; if you have flooded batteries, better to have regular caps so you can check and add water as needed, or even install Hydrocaps. OTOH, true sealed batteries, which do not use flooded electrolyte and are sealed except for an emergency over-pressure relief valve (called Valve-Relieved Lead Acid, or VRLA batteries) are good choices for folks who do not want to do regular battery maintenance. Examples of this type of battery are Gell and Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries. Flooded, gell, and AGM batteries each have their strengths and weaknesses. I did a comparative write-up on this for Bus Conversions Magazine a month or two ago, but it is also in the archives here. And there is information on the differences on Bill's site as well. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Tom Christman (Tchristman)
Registered Member Username: Tchristman Post Number: 204 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 66.218.33.156 Rating: N/A |
I tried one of the Caterpillar 8D batteries in my truck, and it was junk. Stick to a direct manufacturer of batteries. Good Luck, TomC | ||
| Jim Blumenthal (Jimblu)
Registered Member Username: Jimblu Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2008 Posted From: 63.136.116.131 Rating: N/A |
Always check the date code and voltage on any battery from any supplier. I saw 18 month old flooded batteries at a NAPA store recently that were dead on the shelf, they tried to assure me they would be fine with a little charging (they would be sulfated). I have also seen batteries with an old code that had been recharged, unless they are heavily discounted you aren't getting what you are paying for. Many of the date codes require a decoder ring, I prefer to see a label with the month and year fixed by the factory. | ||
| Luvrbus (Luvrbus)
Registered Member Username: Luvrbus Post Number: 876 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 74.32.83.4 Rating: N/A |
Here we go with the ice cream again I was told Johnshon Control built most batteries in the box stores I know they build the Interstate brand plus many more brands. TomC I used Cat batteries for 20+ years every now and then you would get a bad one but not often. The battery you rant and rave about after 3 sets of LifeLine I think they are overpriced junk. But that is the way it works in the battery world some good some bad | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1874 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157 Rating: |
at one time or another, I had batteries that, in my opinion are or were junk; Sears Die Hard, JC Pennys lifetime, Firestone, Delco, etc. Have a list of tires, cars, coaches, also. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1207 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.242.78.3 Rating: N/A |
Amen JWR and Luvr...Amen RCB | ||
| Laryn Christley (Barn_owl)
Registered Member Username: Barn_owl Post Number: 653 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 72.66.166.244  Rating: |
Leonard, Take your deserved lashing, get over it, and come back and enjoy the hobby. We are grateful that Sean is here to help us. I don't know of anyone more knowledgeable on electrical, and full-timing, in a bus as he is. He writing style is engineering/technical manual/to-the-point in style, and that is very desirable and needed in this hobby. My family had a wonderful, trouble free, 8500 mile trip last year thanks in large part to Sean answering my questions, and by following his blog. Jump back in and learn from the best. We are quick to forgive, forget, and help. | ||
| FAST FRED (Fast_fred)
Registered Member Username: Fast_fred Post Number: 1135 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 66.82.9.82  Rating: N/A |
"no corrosion on cables," Nice dream , but many GM connect a copper cable to the aluminum coach frame as the Ground. IF one does not keep this clean , say every 6 months or so, on start up the V reg can fry. Don't ask, FF | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 24 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 32.176.242.186 Rating: N/A |
Hhmmmm... "the regulator fries", FINALLY! The punchline to a joke I played on myself 5 years ago! Patience is everything..... I just want it NOW!!! | ||
| Sean Welsh (Sean)
Registered Member Username: Sean Post Number: 1061 Registered: 1-2003 Posted From: 72.171.0.143 Rating: N/A |
It has been pointed out to me elsewhere that this portion of my first post here is incorrect. East Penn does, indeed, market flooded "Marine Master" and "Solar" brand batteries under the Deka label. -Sean http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com | ||
| Donald P H (Eagle19952)
Registered Member Username: Eagle19952 Post Number: 19 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.223.166.67 Rating: N/A |
my coach originally came with deka batts,maintenance records indicated that they were 10-11 years old when they "died"...which resulted from the premature death of my original trace inverter.<(which is another story) unfortunately circumstances dictated that I replaced them with NAPA....long story short....next time will be DEKA's... | ||
| Muddog16 (Muddog16)
Registered Member Username: Muddog16 Post Number: 390 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 174.101.91.98 Rating: N/A |
All I can say is, "WOW", what an educational thread! You guys are the best, did you ever notice that when you are nearing a certain portion of your conversion a perfect thread pops up! | ||
| Van (Van)
Registered Member Username: Van Post Number: 105 Registered: 7-2008 Posted From: 68.108.81.25  Rating: N/A |
And Here all along, I thought Duracell had the best 8D batteries. Ok I'll take my lumps now |
