| Author | Message | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 140 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.59.114.207  Rating: N/A |
Besides my 4104, I own a 1997 Ford E-Superduty 7.3 PowerStroke Turbo Diesel (former shuttlebus) for my work truck. 155,000 miles. The oil pan has become somewhat "porous". In my manual, the section for replacing the oil pan says to go to chapter on engine removal first. Ain't gonna happen. My thought is: What if I were to drain the oil out of the pan and just let the ol girl sit for week & let the remaining oil seep out of the pan. Then I'm thinking about cleaning the exterior surface up with something (chemicals & sandpaper???) and loading it up (from the outside) with JB Weld or something. Think I have any hopes of sealing the thing? It doesn't leak much, and stops once the oil cools, but I hate leaving my mark in the driveways of my cutomers. Yeah, cardboard under the pan is cheap and effective, but I'm getting worried I might have a major oil pan blowout someday. Any thoughts?? Thanks... Jamo | ||
| Jack Conrad (Jackconrad)
Registered Member Username: Jackconrad Post Number: 1266 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 173.116.0.112  Rating: N/A |
I repaired a leak in the fuel tank of our old Ford F150 "Woods Truck" quite a few years ago using JB Weld. The hole was in the bottom of the tank, caused by a stump. We cleaned the area around the hole with brake cleaner, then applied JB Weld. We let it set for a few days before filling the tank with gasolene. It was still holding a couple years later when we junked what little was left of the truck. Worked for us, YMMV Jack | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 245 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 206.45.93.160  Rating: N/A |
That J.B. weld works pretty good, what do you have to loose. I suppose you could see if unbolting the motor and just lifting it up somewhat would give you enough clearence to get the pan out, more work but much less than actually pulling teh motor right out. Grant | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 141 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.59.114.207 Rating: N/A |
That's the problem...no room for nothin'. You ever see how tight a 7.3 is in a Ford Econoline van? If I actually got into the section about engine removal, they would probably direct you to the front axle removal, dash board removal, and front clip removal sections before you got to even see the engine. It's one crammed compartment. I guess they even had to de-tune the Econoline Diesels from the pick up versions as they run so much hotter. Figures, eh?? Guess I'm wondering if I could ever get the weeping (not me) to stop well enough for the JB Weld to actually take hold after a good cleaning. Sure appreciate the ideas... | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 557 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193  Rating: N/A |
I've R&R a 460 in a ford van - hardly any need for motor mounts. So tight it is almost a press fit. Makes one entertain thoughts of cutting out the cross member for access & welding it back when done. As is was, I don't remember it being that difficult - just tight. http://www.microleak.com/index.htm May be easier than JB weld, but I've not used it. The oil pan provides significant cooling to the engine oil, so be aware of that before covering the oil pan. I'd think that draining the oil & a good de-greasing pressure wash would allow the coating to, at the very least, minimize the leaks. Are you sure it is pan porosity? Would be a bummer to do all the work & not even slow down the leak. . . If I was concerned about a pan blowout, I'd just bite the bullet & replace the pan - either with a new pan or another truck. | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph7)
Registered Member Username: Ralph7 Post Number: 110 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 75.245.224.197 Rating: |
Locktite has a product it is an epoxy, mix two parts. Personally I use fiber glass reson mixed with extra hardner, but I have seen other two part mixes that will work. Yes just clean, clean,clean, and try to wipe with thinner to get the oil off. I have patched tanks this way. | ||
| Kyle Brandt (Kyle4501)
Registered Member Username: Kyle4501 Post Number: 558 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.23.106.193 Rating: N/A |
What temperature does the oil get to in the pan? That could make a difference on the life of the repair. According to their specifications, the microleak stuff is only rated to 350F. According to the guys on the powerstroke forum, the oil temp should not be more than 15 deg above the coolant temp. - So, the microleak is well suited for this application to seal the porosity. Applies with a brush too.  (Message edited by kyle4501 on April 09, 2010) | ||
| Justin Burie (Justinb)
Registered Member Username: Justinb Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 209.254.23.194 Rating: N/A |
Most of the school bus fleet mechanics that fight this issue on E350 & E450 chassied busses, - remove some intake pieces & valve covers for clearence sake - take the motor mounts loose - push (from underneath) the motor up enough to wiggle the pan out. Rust is a common issue on IH diesels, be it hthe Powerstroke(T444), DT or otherwise. Many folks will Rhino-Line hte exoterior of the pan prior to installation. Also a good idea for front wheel drive Chrysler power steering resevoirs. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1154 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 72.161.172.62  Rating: N/A |
A screw with a washer head and epoxy or the proper type of Loctite will hold forever if the hole is not too large. For a seepage situation it should work fine. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1218 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.245.234.222 Rating: N/A |
T'would have been my suggestion as well, Gus! And if it is "big"...bolts will do the same... if it can be threaded....I'm a fan of JB WELD (recent)....be sure to clean it WELL first...no matter the product used. FWIW (Message edited by Chuckllb on April 09, 2010) | ||
| Donald P H (Eagle19952)
Registered Member Username: Eagle19952 Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 75.223.166.67 Rating: N/A |
there are refridgeration grade 2 part epoxy's that work on condensors.they get hot and carry oil.i would research those too. I once "convinced" a US Army Corp of Eng. inspector that 12-71 Detroit blocks were a NAVY spekd porous casting,designed to minimize corrosion....on a federal flood control project... | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 876 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.153.91  Rating: N/A |
there is another product that I have used and it is called Marine Tex. It is used the same as JB weld and will work on about anything. I am looking at the box and it says; -60 degrees and as high as 300 degrees. Oh made in the USA. I comes from a Marine Dealer and is a little pricy for the size. 2 oz, two part box. About 20.00 for the box. I have used this on plastic,nylon, and even repaired a crack in a block on a car and while looking at this thread, I called the guy and he said it was still running fine with no problems except too many miles on it and smokes,but NO leaks from the repair. Don; Detroit blocks porus?? That is good Gomer | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 67 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 174.48.3.107  Rating: N/A |
the challenge here is cleaning the surface to be epoxied. draining the oil cleaning the area is going to be difficult as soon as you wash the final oil film off the surface. you most likely will get weeping through the hole or the porous metal via capillary action the solvents could even help speed this condition. if the pan is porous it needs to be changed. just a thougth here, you said the oils stops leaking when cold? an oil pan leak will leak cold or hot, granted hot oil will flow easier. maybe it is leaking while running and the oil pressure sending unit is seeping then under oil pressure. when not it doesn't so that's when you notice that while cold it does not leak. see if the block is wet from the sender on down. Best regards JM | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph7)
Registered Member Username: Ralph7 Post Number: 111 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 75.242.64.27 Rating: N/A |
At big (R) if the oil pan on the S-60 had had less than 2-3 in. cracks, road damage we used 1-3 small 2-part Locktite (5 or 10) packs to a tube. Otherwise we R&R ed a glued pan, needed to keep several on hand. BUT had to clean with thinner, how ever my personal choice is B-12 bake cleaner leaves no oil residue. Temp. not a issue, if oil reaches 300' you have other major issues. | ||
| Len Silva (Lsilva)
Registered Member Username: Lsilva Post Number: 351 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 72.187.35.208  Rating: N/A |
How about a diaper? | ||
| marvin pack (Gomer)
Registered Member Username: Gomer Post Number: 877 Registered: 3-2007 Posted From: 71.53.153.91 Rating: N/A |
LEN?? You are starting to sound like CHESSIE!! LOL. Jamo; There are a lot of products that are available to help out in this problem and I hope that one will be ok for you. gomer | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 977 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.37.31.150 Rating: N/A |
A thought on the weeping, (I'm weeping that I didn't think of this sooner.) If you can determine with certainty that it is a hole in the pan, after draining it, jack up the side or back or front of the van so that the leaking spot is higher than most of the rest of the pan. This should help keep the leaking spot dryer, and help one of the recommended products stick better. G | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 142 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.59.114.207 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for all the thoughts. My plan is to jack up the front of the van & block it up a foot or so. I'll drain the oil & let it dribble out for several days. Then when I clean the bottom of the pan, I'm hoping to see very few (or only one?) bad spots...clean 'em up and goop the area. If they seem to be holes, sheet metal screws and rubber washers might do it. I've heard that the PS Diesels around '97 were known for bad pans. Figures. Again, thanks for the help & I'm hoping to do this next week. I'll let you know how I make out. As for the diaper idea, I just might try that on the back door of the '04. Probably have to change it every hundred miles or so. Maybe I can get a diaper service to follow me around... | ||
| Dallas Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 72.172.43.196 Rating: N/A |
It may help to buy a small bottle of ultraviolet dye and pour it into the crankcase after washing the outside. Run the engine for a bit, then with an ultraviolet light, (black light), you'll be able to see exactly where your leaks are and have a better idea of what's needed to repair them. Good Luck! I hate those plastic oil pans! | ||
| L James Jones Jr (Jamo)
Registered Member Username: Jamo Post Number: 143 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.59.114.207 Rating: N/A |
Plastic???? Never heard that one. I was thinking I could drain the oil & fill the crankcase with straight Kerosene. Start it up and let it run for an hour. The leaks ought to be easy to find, and the real benny is, I won't have to fix them... The UV dye is an interesting thought. That'll mix with the oil & be easily visible? Just the thought of a black light gives me the willies though. It's been 30 years since "those" days... | ||
| Dallas Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 39 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 72.172.43.196 Rating: N/A |
Yup, UV dye has been being used for years and you can get it at most auto parts dealers. Fear not, not all 7.3's had plastic pans, although all the ambulances and utility trucks I worked on did. | ||
| John & Barb Tesser (Bigrigger)
Registered Member Username: Bigrigger Post Number: 389 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 96.42.5.35  Rating: N/A |
James, I had a 94 Ford, same story. The oil pan rotted from the inside out. Actually the metal "delaminated". Looked like an old damascas barrel on a gun that is made in layers pounded together. I was able to loosen the front motor mounts, and with an engine hoist pick the front end up enough ( watch the firewall on top) and sneak the new pan in. Still not the easiest proposition, but mine wasn't ready to head for the woods yet. John | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph7)
Registered Member Username: Ralph7 Post Number: 112 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 75.243.89.157 Rating: N/A |
If it is an issue with the firewall a good air hammer/grinder/ear&eye potection solves many problems. Than a few strips of metal/bolts/pop rivets, fiberglass all done..... will work, not pretty... |
