| Author | Message | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 247 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 206.45.93.160  Rating: N/A |
Awhile ago I saw that Buss Warrior mentioned removing the wheels on the bus once per year. I could not agree with him more. I am currently working on getting thos @#@# screws out of the brake drums once again, although a different wheel this time. If the PO had removed the wheels even every 2 years and done an inspection on these screws I would not be in this position. Anyone who has had to remove these with half of the head rusted away knows exactly what I mean. Last year I ended up blowing them out with a torch, redrilling and re tapping. I really don't like this procedure as it makes it very hard to retap perfectly centre. Thanks for the good advice BW I will follow it. It makes the R & R of teh traling axle bushing a breeze compared to the damed old screws. Maybe I should put teh question out there about hubs. Does anyone know if any truck hubs will interchage? If so I could track some down and forget about the whole old design of current hub/and wheels. | ||
| Dallas Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 41 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 72.172.43.196 Rating: N/A |
Why replace the screws at all? All they do is hold the drum against the hub and the lug bolts will do that nicely. Also, the easy way to get them out is with the square type screw extractor and the appropriate sized drill. | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 42 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 166.183.184.152 Rating: |
pssst..a little secret from my machinist: Whenever you are about to LOSEN a fastener YOU did not install in the last 6 months, ALWAYS begin by TIGHTENING the fastener just a tiny bit then back it out. Just today I watched a guy bust a Sq.Drive trying to pull a gallery plug from a Chevy block, when he stuck the 2nd one in the hole I suggested he try to tighten it a bit first, it moved and then he backed out like it was greased. I get a smile every time, & it ain't even my trick! | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 106 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 174.48.6.180  Rating: N/A |
Dammit Jack now everyone will know all the trade secrets. might as well mention Gus's rust busting solvent mouse milk, still brings a chuckle | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1244 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.243.129.20 Rating: N/A |
Thanx for that post Jack...have done it before, but a helpful reminder for next time!  Jorge...normally descriptive verb/adjectives (or whatever) on this site are exclusive of condemnation (curse) ...gosh....how times are a changin'!  . But then, guess that is not my call. RCB | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 108 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 174.48.6.180 Rating: N/A |
Darn-it! sorry It slips out there now and again when I get excited. Dammit I did it again with the darn it. OH GOSH I'M OUT OF CONTROL. S#%T | ||
| john w. roan (Chessie4905)
Registered Member Username: Chessie4905 Post Number: 1885 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.58.71.157  Rating: N/A |
If you don't use the screws to retain the drum, there is a good change that the wheel won't seat properly because the drum is slightly cocked from all the weight to the inside of the mounting surface. Good chance then of loose wheel. Put antiseize on those screws. If you are good with a torch, you can burn the threaded portion out without damaging the threads in the hub.The melting point of the screw is lower than the cast iron. Another choice is to heat the surrounding area around the screw and heat the screw head to dull red. Then after it cools for 10 to 15 seconds, use a hand impact with screw driver bit to remove. I've done both sucessfully several times. | ||
| Ralph Peters (Ralph7)
Registered Member Username: Ralph7 Post Number: 116 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 75.242.96.77 Rating: N/A |
My wheels have brass screws and I still use antiseaze. I would change to brass screws if I were you. | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 248 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 206.45.93.160 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the advice once again, Hey Dallas, do those screws not keep the drum centre, so that a person gets even braking, if I don't replace them and only use the rim to hold it on, is there not a good chance the drum will be off centre? I am new to some of this older stuff. Would prefer to change hubs but hate to spend the cash. | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 249 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 206.45.93.160 Rating: N/A |
Oh and I also did try drilling a hole and using an easy out but the easy out broke. I think I will try welding a nut on the inside to the head of the screw and try that. | ||
| Dallas Farnworth (Dallas)
Registered Member Username: Dallas Post Number: 42 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 72.172.43.196 Rating: N/A |
Grant, the drums actually center on the lug studs with a slight friction fit. You'll also notice that the inside face of the drum where the lugs do through is machined to a pretty close tolerance. Once the drum is installed on the hub and the wheels are installed, it will be as flat against the hub as it can ever be. In the trucking world, you'll find that seldom are the screws replaced during a brake job. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1168 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.39.48  Rating: N/A |
A tad of anti-seize or Corrosion X on the screws helps. | ||
| Jack Fids (Jack_fids)
Registered Member Username: Jack_fids Post Number: 43 Registered: 1-2009 Posted From: 32.176.234.113 Rating: N/A |
George... if you have a can of Gus's rust busting solvent mouse milk you could trade it for a first born son to the right guy. When Gus died he not only took the formula with him he also took the secret to milking mice! You have to admire the old Cogger, as big a guy as he was with those tiny fingers & hands which were eventually worth millions, he figured out a way to milk mice and men from their dollars. I hear that a pre-war can with the original green stripe label in mint condition is worth close to 5G's! Eventually mechanics everywhere started using Liquid Wrench, (which BTW doesn't mix with grain alcohol worth a dang & gives you a terrible headache to boot) these days even LW is a shadow of it's former past. The big boy on the block in the 21st century seems to be PB Blaster, I don't know how it works tho because I've been on the wagon now for 10 years... I stopped using all mixers & just take my medicine straight-up ..no chaser either. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1170 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.39.9 Rating: N/A |
Jack, I think you missed taking some of your meds!! My Mouse Milk is/was in a plastic bottle so I guess I missed out. I'm not sure I even have it anymore but it was a real disappointment considering what I paid for it. Liquid Wrench never worked for me any better than WD40. PB Blaster is as good as any I've used and a lot cheaper than most. | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 276 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 99.23.132.201  Rating: N/A |
Prevost has been sending new chassis out of the factory for almost a decade without those flathead tapered brake drum screws installed. The threaded holes are still there in the drum but empty. I got them on our 85 and I reinstall them when Im in there doing things, but I dont know why. If you are worried about the drum cocking without the screws adjust the slack adjuster tight before you put the rim up. Then when your done back it off and set the brake adjustment properly. Semi tractor brake drums do not have them, old type rims or new, piloted or not. | ||
| Debbie and Joe Cannarozzi (Joe_camper)
Registered Member Username: Joe_camper Post Number: 277 Registered: 10-2006 Posted From: 99.23.132.201 Rating: N/A |
I took and ground down a cold chissle to fit the slot perfect. A 3/4 socket fits top of the chissle perfect and with a 1/2 impact set down to low I give them short butsts. That is how I get the stubborn ones loose. | ||
| George Martinez (Foohorse)
Registered Member Username: Foohorse Post Number: 111 Registered: 1-2010 Posted From: 174.48.6.180 Rating: N/A |
thanks for the laugh Jack. the mental picture of Gus milking mice is priceless. | ||
| Tim Hoskinson (Tdh37514151)
Registered Member Username: Tdh37514151 Post Number: 261 Registered: 9-2004 Posted From: 65.25.139.50  Rating: N/A |
Just a word of caution here from a person who has removed many many stuck and broken bolts. NEVER melt a steel bolt from a casting! If you heat the steel to a molten puddle and get the iron to melt also if only in a vary small spot the two will mix and harden to a point that you will not touch the material with a high speed steel tap or drill. Over the years I have had many people bring me things to repair after they have tried this and it makes for a bad day to say the least. Heat the bolt only until it is red. Let it cool and repeat. The expansion and contraction of the bolt body against the bore of the hole will eventually break it loose. Also never turn the bolt out in one motion. Turn the bolt back and fourth a small amount as you advance it out. If the head is gone use a nut and wire weld it to the center of the bolt before starting this process. Hope this helps. Tim | ||
| Ed Roelle (Ed_roelle)
Registered Member Username: Ed_roelle Post Number: 81 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 69.246.74.132 Rating: N/A |
I struggled with those screws until I used a combination of others suggestions. Then I was successful 100% of the time. 1. John Roan "heat the screw head to dull red" AND 2. Joe Cannarozzi "1/2 impact set down to low I give them short bursts." (3/8" impact actually was large enough.) Ed Roelle | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1852 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 174.89.174.160  Rating: N/A |
Careful! If you use the brake shoes to hold the drum steady while assembling... Which is fine... Once you have all the parts on and loosely tightened up, release the brakes, so that it is all free to snug up, and then do your proper torquing. If the shoes were holding the drum less than tight to the hub... you risk dis-assembly while underway! Good thread, is this one! happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 251 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 206.45.93.160 Rating: N/A |
Well lots of good advice, some questions that were running through my head were answered and I didn't even ask. I was debating tightening up the brakes upon reassembling to centre the drum but thought if at all possible I would like to replace those nasty flat headed screws. I got them all out without blowing them out with a torch. I heated them up, took a chisel and knocked the edges off, then welded a bolt to them. Then with a wrench I carefully broke them loose, once loose I continued back and forth with my impact. Took awhile but it was much better than the other side which I chose to drill and retap. The problem with drilling and retapping was it was very difficult to centre exactly. Ended up with one hole very slightly out, so I left that bolt out. Thanks again guys. My tags are done, new bushings, airbags, brake lines, shocks and cleaned up all other barkes parts as they look good. | ||
| Gus Causbie (Gusc)
Registered Member Username: Gusc Post Number: 1173 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 173.202.35.34 Rating: N/A |
Grant, I'm amazed at how hard those were to remove. I had a bit of trouble with mine but nothing like your troubles. Mine were about 5/16 or 3/8" coarse thread slot head as I remember. I've had a lot of problems removing coarse threaded bolts/screws from older vehicles but found that fine threads are usually easy to remove in comparison. | ||
| Grant Thiessen (Busshawg)
Registered Member Username: Busshawg Post Number: 252 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 206.45.93.160 Rating: N/A |
Me too !! I was very happy when they did finally come out. The only reason I wanted to do this was because I felt the brake rollers weren't taking grease properly. The drum was also quite corroded. I knocked the rust off from around the wheel studs and used some moderate heat and then some serious pounding with a 10 lb hammer before it came loose. Once the drum was off I was finally able to do a decent inspection on the brakes. I removed the brake springs and found the rollers were very sticky. I again used some very mild heat on the rollers, just enough to soften the old greae. Then I kept swinging the brake shoes on the rollers while applying grease. It all actually worked quite well. I'm very happy I did this as one of the shoes would have been hanging up, making it very possible for a brake fire. Although the tag is now done I will do every wheel just to ensure they are all working properly. Grant |
