| Author | Message | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 261 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
any ideas guys? the roof airs when hooked to shore power will not turn on. all the circuit breakers are on and the power is good? the only thing that is changed is the burnt up autoformer has been removed and the wires have not been put back together as it causes the breakers in the house to blow even without a load. that and the geni not working properly are my only problems left. we were going down to the beach tomorrow but with the weather being so bad that has been postponed for another week.. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 1140 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.65.128  Rating: N/A |
Trying to solve a problem without seeing what you're dealing with. is near impossible..... but... Usually both AC units will not be connected to the same 110vac source at the same time.... In an RV with 50 amp service, one AC unit is connected to one "leg" of the 220vac and the other AC unit is connected to the other "leg". The 50 amp power pole supply will power both at the same time. In an RV with 30 amp service, only one AC unit will be connected to the power plug at any time. Since your conversion "RV" used an autotransformer, it might be safe to assume that it's a basic 30 amp system. If you're not able to run either AC unit, it may be worth looking at only one at a time, and trace the wires back to your power supply point. You might find a relay there, that has been left out of the circuit when the autotransformer was removed from the circuit. Home Depot sells a real neat electrical tracing tool that sends a tone on your wire, and has a receiver for you to hear the tone at at the remote point. It's easy to check a circuit from an outlet back to a breaker box, using that tool. It's well worth the $. Good luck. | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 262 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
just seems strange that when the former was removed i had plugged the in and out wires together which caused a short. i wonder if i plug the auto former cord directly into the plug what would happen? | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 1141 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.65.128 Rating: N/A |
yeah. This'll be a good time to see if the cellphone 911 feature works. uhh... there are better ways of testing, ya'know... (my neighbor used to give me $20 to park his lemon car next to my bus whenever I was about to test like that) | ||
| Buswarrior (Buswarrior)
Registered Member Username: Buswarrior Post Number: 1858 Registered: 12-2000 Posted From: 174.91.145.181  Rating: N/A |
thomas, has anything 120 vac in the coach worked since the autoformer blew up/melted? First the coach would trip the house breaker, you take apart some wires, and now the breaker stays on. The trouble right from the start may be a short in the coach, that ruined the autoformer. Best to stop plugging it in until you do some forensic work, or you'll be risking "letting the smoke out" of something else, or yourself! Safety first! Got to be an electrician around the neighbourhood with a multimeter that will work for beverages? happy coaching! buswarrior | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 263 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
i have my own meter. the outlets seem to work fine the inverter is also working fine the microwave is a piece of junk but makes popcorn in 4 min.if i plug the autoformer plugs together i get a blown breaker in the house but not the coach. the problem with the geni most likely is the low oil switch and the king dome is just a piece of junk. so my only pressing problem seems to be the lack of the roofss working, | ||
| Dave Walker (Chrome_dome)
Registered Member Username: Chrome_dome Post Number: 23 Registered: 3-2010 Posted From: 67.174.144.159  Rating: N/A |
Tom; Have you tried replacing or checking continuity of the breaker that is popping and or checking wire tightness is the ground bar connection at that same. You say you plug in the 2 plugs in the autoformer. Can you bypass it first to see if it is maybe the autoformer itself. Did you check the wires at the plugs inside that when the AF blew up might have burned off and touched each other? Check continuity of each single wire that connects that circuit. Just thought something might trigger a new path of thought/ Dave | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 265 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
auto former is gone.....it had a male and female plug to go in between the male and female wires. if i just connect the two together i get a blown breaker in the house on any breaker i use not just the closest to the outside.if i disconnected the plugs it works fine. i will have to open the junctions but one is behind the propane bay which will be hard to get to. | ||
| Dave Walker (Chrome_dome)
Registered Member Username: Chrome_dome Post Number: 25 Registered: 3-2010 Posted From: 67.174.144.159 Rating: N/A |
If you disconnect the plugs and it works fine, My guess is that it is either the wiring in the Plugs( even just one of them) that may have burned or too small a breaker you are hooking up to. Are there any GFCI on any of those circuits either in the house or in the Circuit box itself? You most definitely have a short in that circuit but only within that cabling or plug. Wheres George when you need him? Good Luck Dave | ||
| Bill Holstein (Billmoocow)
Registered Member Username: Billmoocow Post Number: 100 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 76.115.120.243  Rating: N/A |
When the kids were little, we had a travel trailer. A 110v light bulb towards the front of trailer was taken out. One of the kids put some pennies in bulb socket which i did not know at time. Everytime i pluged into 110 it would blow the house breaker. Was real frustrating until i discovered the pennies. LOL | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 266 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
no gfci i have 40 or so ohms across the pins on the plug no pennies no 120 lights in the coach except for pucks and rope lights. my feeling is the autoformer is for the ac units only and not the rest of the coach. i just cant find where the connection to the ac is.what i will do is hook the plug that was the autoformer up to the next campground i am at and see what happens. | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 1142 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.65.128 Rating: |
Do yourself a favor, and buy that signal tracer at Home Depot that I told you about. Guessing what will happen when you plug in unknown shorted devices, usually results in you guessing where the ashes of your belongings blew off to.... | ||
| Bill Holstein (Billmoocow)
Registered Member Username: Billmoocow Post Number: 101 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 76.115.120.243 Rating: N/A |
Did you check the extention cord you were using for a short? | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 267 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
the cord works great on the rest of the coach.it is one i made myself so i know it's good. | ||
| George M. Todd (George_todd)
Registered Member Username: George_todd Post Number: 1012 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 99.29.76.171 Rating: N/A |
Dave, Thanks for the vote of confidence! This one has so many variables that most of us don't even know where to start? On site with a meter, several of us could find it in minutes, but at this point, its a WAG. So, tell us Tom, do you have 30 or 50 Amp service? Is there a seperate breaker in your bus panel for each roof air? It sounds like the roof airs are powered seperately from the rest of the bus A/C though, so tell us how the electric worked before it burned. I still don't like 1.something Ohms neutral to ground in the inverter. Thats a second ground point in the coach, like it or not. We also don't know if the autoformer was a floating coil transformer, or a buck-boost. Which way it was determines how to wire it out. There are so many variables here that I think a lot of people are avoiding this!? Give us some hard specifics, please, and we'll work on it. G | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 268 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
30 amp service on the coach. i think there are separate breakers i will look. it worked fine with the auto former connected. i did find one outlet that is wired backwards but that is only for lights and tv equipment. i did have to rewire the pucks backwards to match so the touch switch would work but that shouldn't matter.otherwise there is nothing different then when it worked properly. | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 529 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62  Rating: N/A |
NM the 220 comment I see your coach only has 30 amp service (Message edited by timb on May 11, 2010) | ||
| Dave Walker (Chrome_dome)
Registered Member Username: Chrome_dome Post Number: 27 Registered: 3-2010 Posted From: 67.174.144.159 Rating: N/A |
Ok Last attempt; Tom, When you said the AF burnt up? Were the A/C's 1 or 2 on at the time (I never run 2 unless We are plugged into 50 Amps)and was that possibly the original cause. Or was it burnt up because it was just old and over used etc. Could; if the airs were on, that a start switch in the air or airs have fried also and is closed and not opening when they are shut down. So when you plug the plugs together the power shorts right away because they are still actually on or at the very least they are melted inside the start switch and short? It will probably fix itself today because the neighbor said that for he last few weeks Mercury was retrograde and it goes Direct today so all communications should be restored. No I don't no what that means but it is probably good for you. Dave | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 271 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
not on it was in the middle of winter and i just had it plugged in to keep the batteries charged. the coach has not really had that much use over the past 10 years, i would say 30k miles or so. | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 272 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
just checked. i have 3 double breakers 6 in all. they are all fed with what looks to be #14 or at best#12 wire, i would think that a a/c unit would need #8 at least? | ||
| Bill Holstein (Billmoocow)
Registered Member Username: Billmoocow Post Number: 102 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 76.115.120.243 Rating: |
What happens when you turn off all the breakers in the bus and then flip them on one by one? | ||
| John MC9 (John_mc9)
Registered Member Username: John_mc9 Post Number: 1144 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.162.65.128 Rating: N/A |
Tom... This site might also be helpful: Shorts and smoke Bill's suggestion is good. Also, turn off the air conditioners while you're testing. Powering an AC unit when it's already turned on can trip a breaker; leave it off until you correct the power. | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 273 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
units have been off. none of the breakers have ever tripped.. | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 530 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62 Rating: N/A |
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Double pole breakers are only used on 220 or 50 amp power. This is what I started to write up in my previous post. On my coach two of my three roof airs are 220 and if yours are the same will never turn on wired 30 amp 110 | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 275 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
these are cheater breakers. 2 in one. i got the genni running and the airs come right on with no problem. | ||
| Bill Holstein (Billmoocow)
Registered Member Username: Billmoocow Post Number: 103 Registered: 5-2009 Posted From: 98.232.207.25 Rating: N/A |
Try a different cord eventhough you made the one youre using. | ||
| Tim Brandt (Timb)
Registered Member Username: Timb Post Number: 531 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.165.176.62 Rating: N/A |
Look at whatever handles the transfer of power between the two. It may only be switching one leg. | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 277 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
everything has been traced back to the inverter input. i thought i had shore power but in fact it was inverter power.i plugged the autoformer plugs together after taking the inverter input off and there was no short. so i must assume that there is a short in the inverter? my thought is when i took it apart a few months ago i might of put a screw back in the wrong place and caused the shorting problem. i will have to take it apart again and see if there is a longer screw where it shouldn't be or maybe something fell into the unit[loose screw] and has caused the short. | ||
| R.C.Bishop (Chuckllb)
Registered Member Username: Chuckllb Post Number: 1257 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 75.242.68.102 Rating: N/A |
Tom...I'm no electrical whiz, but have you checked the continuity on the lines to/from the units in question?...how about where they start (inverter)? (Wires themselves) How about the inverter itself? (the output lugs) Maddening, right?   BTDT RCB (Message edited by Chuckllb on May 14, 2010) | ||
| thomas flocks (Taflocks)
Registered Member Username: Taflocks Post Number: 278 Registered: 9-2009 Posted From: 74.76.246.165 Rating: N/A |
output lugs are shorted when no power is going out so the geni will not backfeed. the input side has 41.7 ohms across the poles.btw no screw nothing left inside. i have a tv repair guy that will look at it next week. in the mean time i have tied the input and outputs together so i can go to baileys on monday and still be able to run shore power,also the geni problems seem to be related to the short in the inverter. |
